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Stimulants and Spirituality

Dedbeet

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Stimulants have been my spiritual teacher -- not only hallucinogens have something to offer in that department.

In fact, IMHO, hallucinogens are merely an introduction. They give the hint that there's something more than the ordinary, day to day life.

Stimulants show you that there's something less. And IME, that's where the spiritual rubber meets the road.

Acceptance: Anxiety. Compulsion. Nasty comedowns. Regular stim use forces a sort of unconditional acceptance of whatever occurs.

Attention: Stim use creates focus, concentration, one-pointedness and staying up for long periods of time in the here and now. Not all of them, but some of them are downright zen-like in their effects.

Aloneness: Stim use tends to aloneness, spending long periods of time by yourself. And that can result in coming to terms with yourself and with aloneness. The classic 'living in a cave for a time' that has served some people very well in terms of spiritual awareness.

Loss: Stim use (particularly certain kinds, such as crack) creates a lot of loss of material things, which teaches you loss and the unimportance of the material.

Helplessness: You encounter many situations where you can't get outside help or are ostracized, resulting in greater independence. Another word for independence is "freedom". A lesson that usually must be forced by life situation, but a highly valuable one.

Death: Stimulant use can be risky. You're risking your health, maybe your life. You end up coming to terms with death, out of necessity.

Neglect: Heavy stim use often results in neglect of the body, which puts the focus on consciousness itself instead of the body. And I've sure you've heard "we are pure consciousness, not the physical body" before.

Compulsion: The compulsiveness of stims forces you to question the nature of free will and choice, resulting in a deeper understanding of what really moves us.

Pleasure: Stim use creates levels of euphoria that can result in a deeper understanding of the nature of pleasure and euphoria, and their corresponding opposites.

I tell you, there is a spiritual guru hiding inside crack, meth, MDPV and all the powerful stims. Spiritual awakening requires radical disillusionment, and stims have it on offer. Most people will not be interested in what they have to teach. It's too risky. Too dangerous. You may not survive it. And that is exactly what's required to learn the truth beyond the psyche (separate self).

Do I advise the use of stimulants as a spiritual practice? No. No one in their right mind would advise the regular use of powerful stimulants for any reason. But I wouldn't advise against it either. What I would actually advise is not listening to anyone else's advice. Follow your heart -- your life is yours alone.

In my own case, after 25 years of on/off use and following several years of increasing use and a heavy MDPV binge, something happened in January of 2008 that was life-changing. I began to notice a tremendous silence and peace, clarity of thought and sense of deep intimacy with life that had no cause whatsoever. This triggered a radical self-examination culminating in an understanding of the truth of self-and-other beyond the mind. I still post occasional insights on Facebook, if anyone's interested PM me for where you can read them. I don't often discuss these matters in conversation, however, as what I get are insights on my own life (that *may* apply to others). So I treat spiritual matters as things that occur to me and are true for me, and are fun to share as essays, and mostly keep discussion to ordinary stuff that everyone talks about.

Of course, this is an invitation to discuss "stims and spirituality" or I wouldn't have posted it in a discussion forum. Anyone agree, disagree, or have your own experiences with stims as life teacher?
 
I agree with most of your points and I'd like to add that stims, by their very nature, make one think a lot, often very clear, rigorous and precise thoughts, unlike the muddled jibbrish of psychedelics. But they (except at the extreme of psychosis..and even the psychotic thoughts tend to be about concrete, real world things) leave you grounded in reality. I go to work on stims, I do integral calculus on stims, I ride my motorcycle on stims. Similarly, I can have meaningful, serious discussion on stims. I can't do any of that while tripping balls, and I've never met anyone who can.
 
I agree with most of your points and I'd like to add that stims, by their very nature, make one think a lot, often very clear, rigorous and precise thoughts, unlike the muddled jibbrish of psychedelics. But they (except at the extreme of psychosis..and even the psychotic thoughts tend to be about concrete, real world things) leave you grounded in reality. I go to work on stims, I do integral calculus on stims, I ride my motorcycle on stims. Similarly, I can have meaningful, serious discussion on stims. I can't do any of that while tripping balls, and I've never met anyone who can.

Maybe I am a student of hard stims, but I've never met a meth user who didn't go on about the complexities of farkle. Typically the people who use uppers (of whom I know very well) just clinch their teeth and ramble for centuries under the assumption of meaningful discussion. Give me a person who has had their consciousness wrecked by psychedelics any day of the week.
 
To those who are interested in such things, the naturally occurring psychostimulant ephedrine has a rich and fascinating history of use as a traditional medicine and quasi-entheogen of sorts, likely for all the reasons the OP has enumerated above.

Typically the people who use uppers (of whom I know very well) just clinch their teeth and ramble for centuries

I think rangrz prefers to associate exclusively with smart people. As in, "if you don't have an IQ >115, I don't want to be anywhere in earshot when you're on meth." But yeah, pretty much.
 
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To those who are interested in such things, the naturally occurring psychostimulant ephedrine has a rich and fascinating history of use as a traditional medicine and quasi-entheogen of sorts, likely for all the reasons the OP has enumerated above.



I think rangrz prefers to associate exclusively with smart people. As in, "if you don't have an IQ >115, I don't want to be anywhere in earshot when you're on meth." But yeah, pretty much.

i think most of us have got that number beaten, and can utilize their intelligence with out the aid of a drug, and have intelligent open minded discussion.

drugs cause no magical sequence of events that allow for more awareness, they just break down inhibition in a way that one becomes accustomed to, so that thoughts are more readily perceived.
 
Although Adderall is no where near as powerful as crack, meth, etc.. I've experienced several life changing epiphanies, if you will, after taking them; especially when combined with marijuana.
 
That's the beauty of it:) It brought me confidence and motivation to do good and work hard to improve upon myself.

edit: of course, i do enjoy a nice Adderall binge here and there. Its good for the soul, IMO. Plus, feels pretty damn good as well=D Moderation is key.
 
i think most of us have got that number beaten, and can utilize their intelligence with out the aid of a drug, and have intelligent open minded discussion.

drugs cause no magical sequence of events that allow for more awareness, they just break down inhibition in a way that one becomes accustomed to, so that thoughts are more readily perceived.

Interesting thought.
 
I agree that stims are a very powerful spiritual tool, I just can't use them that often... maybe once or twice a year if we're talking something like MDMA. When I do stims I usually combine them with psychs because they work well together for breakthrough experiences, so I'm not sure I can partake in the debate of psychs vs. stims. Ideally I would use both in moderate amounts.

My most powerful trip of the past year was LSD, MDMA and MDA combined. I felt more lasting openings from that experience than most of the drugs I've done in the past year.
 
They're definitely different animals. I could see how someone who has a small ego would gain spiritual teachings from stimulants. It all depends on where you are in life.
 
IMO the human race has had electroshock therapy for 100 years, and stimulants are played out now... But for healing the body, they're pretty good.

...They're just to sketchy to get a steady signal out of.. at least for me (I think that god is a bandwidth we tune into, right).
 
Maybe I am a student of hard stims, but I've never met a meth user who didn't go on about the complexities of farkle. Typically the people who use uppers (of whom I know very well) just clinch their teeth and ramble for centuries under the assumption of meaningful discussion. Give me a person who has had their consciousness wrecked by psychedelics any day of the week.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/663218-A-scary-ish-report-and-a-reason-to-stay-awake-from-trips

thud thud said:
I decided to brew some mushroom tea.
Within 10 minutes I had decided to proceed in smoking 2 consecutive cones of DMT infused leafed.
Anyway I had reoccuring suicidal thoughts, religious notions, self sacrifice and demons crawling out my behind to look forward to for the rest of that acid trip, and since then have suffered multiple drug-induced psychotic episodes. The problem is, even now several years later, reality sometimes doesn't seem quite right, because somehow I always feel something strange and trippy is at work. Some kind of master algorythm that dictates the phenomenon of conciousness. These days I sometimes get delusions of reference, where everything in my life is of some significance or importance to the grand scheme of things.
 
See how awesome is that guy? Far better a read than rangers posts (no offense)
 
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Interesting. I never found a whole lot of spiritual merit in stimulants, personally. But then again, I've never used them with that intention in mind. I find dissociatives more spiritual than any other class of drugs that I've tried, far more than psychedelics or marijuana. I seem to be in the minority on this. I guess what drugs and what patterns of drug use bring you face to face with spiritual realizations and experiences is going to depend in a large part on the user and his/her intentions.
 
I am actually having a spiritual experience from stimulants as we speak ^.^ I believe they have their purpose in spirituality just as hallucinogens do. To me hallucinogens are spiritual in a way that brings sub conscious thoughts and ideas to the conscious mind,once there, they stay and become forever conscious thoughts/ideas. These conscious ideas are further influenced by deeper sub conscious thoughts,ideas,and actions that begin to manifest consciously when one builds their foundation with hallucinogens and connect to the sub conscious mind. Stimulants come into spiritual play at this point because when used for the purpose of soul searching an individual is able to focus,plan,and organize the things that have been brought to their attention by their sub conscious mind.

Stimulants build the rooms upon the foundation,with the ocassional hallucinogenic experience to add another level to your spiritual house followed by adding more rooms until your house is complete. However, it should be noted that a person who finishes their house while still alive has not built a very stable house and has filled their rooms with worldly things.This is because a house with a strong foundation and rooms filled with spiritual things leaves room for death and the sub conscious things it will reveal providing the roof that will truly complete a stable house and the things we can never consciously know.
Pariahprose
 
ranrz said:
Similarly, I can have meaningful, serious discussion on stims. I can't do any of that while tripping balls, and I've never met anyone who can.

You haven't met me. ;) Given a moderate to low dose of a comparatively clearheaded agent (for me, 2c-halos), I can reasonably articulate seeming insights. I've even sometimes later reworked what was yielded into mini 'essays' I've found useful for myself (granted, if writing while under the influence, there is also a lot of crap to sift through, but that is true with writing on stimulants too sometimes).

ebola
 
^as well, i can do almost anything tripping serious balls, even stuff i do in school i could do while tripping though it would be boring. No one would even notice if i showed up to a math class seriously fucked up, unless it was ketamine or something like that. I find most psychs i enjoy are very stimulating anyway so i can see how stimulants and spirituality could have some possibilities.

There's something special to that rushy feeling of a massive wave of thoughts and focused energy. Also i get the most insane desire to learn absolutely everything i can about a single topic when i binge. It's always an educational experience. In terms of increasing intellectual ability, stims can make a huge fucking difference for some people. I study with ephedrine a lot and it works for me since i can't get an adderall or dexedrine script ATM. Stims also greatly improve my video game abilities lol.

iq test scores aren't a valid measurement of one's intelligence.
 
[...] unlike the muddled jibbrish of psychedelics.

I've got to criticize this notion of yours. Most people don't have the capacity to use psychedelics for intellectual purposes. They take as much as they can handle without losing their marbles, to "trip balls". This doesn't work. But for those that know what they're doing, these chemicals are legitimate tools to the end of learning, and I've got the experience to back it up.

Alan Watts sums it up pretty well: psychedelics are to the mind as a microscope or telescope is to the outside world.

Firstly, using oral DMT I discovered a technique for dealing with anxiety that I later discovered to be a preexisting, accepted and proven form of therapy in the context of PTSD. (For more info look up primary and secondary emotions.) Applying this psychedelic insight to my everyday life has had the effect of drastically reducing my anxiety levels.

Another example is the way psychedelics deepened my understanding of music. Because music is simply sound that is constructed according to patterns or algorithms, and psychedelics stimulate pattern-recognition functions of the brain (the reason why you see geometric patterns in visual noise on psychedelics), they have enabled me to understand more sophisticated forms of jazz music, that otherwise made no sense to my ear.
 
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