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CE&P social thread: why do the people I disagree with hate freedom so much?

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Droppersneck said:
Swim is literally one of two XXXXXX's in a large large county. Got a merit raise before I started and suspect one after I prove efficiency. Government is not bad government waste is bad. Still stand by it and I took the same attitude and work ethic from the private to the public sector. The day I change my attitude I will let you know but trust me my job is scrutinized way before blue light by tea partier types lol
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Dispense with the SWIM nonsense please.

I find it funny that some of the most outspoken small government advocates in CE+P either work for the government, worked for the government, or draw disability checks from the government. Yet they arent the problem, its all those other lazy leeches that are the problem. I worked at a temp position for the Federal government for about a year a couple years ago, and while the top down bureaucracy style of management was admittedly less efficent than than my experience in private sector jobs, its not as if we were lazing around all day, we were all constantly working on something.

I dont doubt that what you do is a necessary governmental function Droppers, in fact professionals who work for the government could in many cases make more money doing similar work in the private sector and in a way I admire public servants for that. But can you see where im coming from when I say that your stance is a tad hypocritical?
 
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Care said:
Dispense with the SWIM nonsense please.

I find it funny that some of the most outspoken small government advocates in CE+P either work for the government, worked for the government, or draw disability checks from the government. Yet they arent the problem, its all those other lazy leeches that are the problem. I worked at a temp position for the Federal government for about a year a couple years ago, and while the top down bureaucracy style of management was admittedly less efficent than than my experience in private sector jobs, its not as if we were lazing around all day, we were all constantly working on something.

I dont doubt that what you do is a necessary governmental function Droppers, in fact most professionals who work for the government could in many cases make more money doing similar work in the private sector and in a way I admire public servants for that. But can you see where im coming from when I say that your stance is a tad hypocritical?
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Nope if I didnt do what I do people would be getting a very raw deal in immediate fiscal backlashes. Confronting people with things they dont want to hear is easier said than done. I believe in limited government and I still stand by that notion.
 
Dont you think that most people who work for the government feel the same way? That what they are doing is valuable and contributes towards the greater good?
 
Once again, im not questioning the necessity of your work.

Im simply asking you to take a step back and realize that there are millions of people just like you that are employed by the government doing similarly necessarily work, and that is a little bit self righteous for you to consider yourself somehow above them.
 
Care said:
Once again, im not questioning the necessity of your work.

Im simply asking you to take a step back and realize that there are millions of people just like you that are employed by the government doing similarly necessarily work, and that is a little bit self righteous for you to consider yourself somehow above them.
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I am not above anyone other then 99% of politicians imo.
 
Care said:
Dispense with the SWIM nonsense please.

I find it funny that some of the most outspoken small government advocates in CE+P either work for the government, worked for the government, or draw disability checks from the government. Yet they arent the problem, its all those other lazy leeches that are the problem. I worked at a temp position for the Federal government for about a year a couple years ago, and while the top down bureaucracy style of management was admittedly less efficent than than my experience in private sector jobs, its not as if we were lazing around all day, we were all constantly working on something.

I dont doubt that what you do is a necessary governmental function Droppers, in fact most professionals who work for the government could in many cases make more money doing similar work in the private sector and in a way I admire public servants for that. But can you see where im coming from when I say that your stance is a tad hypocritical?
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i did a summer of state-paid work (grounds crew at my college), and took crazy advantage of any and all state loans/grants (i had an "efc" or 'expected family contribution' of $0.00 so was entitled to the max the state can do). I would do it the same all over again*, and acknowledge it's hypocritical. At the time, I would rationalize it to myself with the whole "tuition fees are as high as they are BECAUSE of the $ the gov pumps into it", and while that is actually very very true(but another topic entirely), it wasn't the only reason; it wasn't a major reason, actually. I just gave WAY more of a shit about being able to go to school (or get paid $2/hr over what *any* private co's woulda paid for landscape work), than I did about sticking to my ideals at the expense of personal progress. Take it for what it's worth I guess... but, yes, I acknowledge the hypocrisy and am prolly as cynical as you when ppl seem to pretend it's not hypocritical <as I did at the time>.

Also I don't share your view on public servants being some virtuous bunch, who sacrifice personal gain to serve their communities. Sure, that must apply to some, tho i've yet to meet one. For any and all that i've met, it's a job (however, many seem to adopt that attitude, that they're making some sort of sacrifice for the greater, and i tend to view those in the same regard as I view ppl taking the dole and rationalizing it like i view a younger-me. That isn't directed at droppers- i haven't gotten the impression he is trying to pretend he could be making more in the private sector for same work, and is short-changing himself for us.)

/*if unclear about why i have disdain for my younger self, despite saying i'd do it all over the same, it's because the disdain is for the rationalizations i made. I would do it all over again w/o feeling it was wrong, because i value what the loans and job meant to me and my own progress, and that was a greater value to me than getting less for myself to avoid being hypocritical.
 
bmxxx said:
i did a summer of state-paid work (grounds crew at my college), and took crazy advantage of any and all state loans/grants (i had an "efc" or 'expected family contribution' of $0.00 so was entitled to the max the state can do). I would do it the same all over again*, and acknowledge it's hypocritical. At the time, I would rationalize it to myself with the whole "tuition fees are as high as they are BECAUSE of the $ the gov pumps into it", and while that is actually very very true(but another topic entirely), it wasn't the only reason; it wasn't a major reason, actually. I just gave WAY more of a shit about being able to go to school (or get paid $2/hr over what *any* private co's woulda paid for landscape work), than I did about sticking to my ideals at the expense of personal progress. Take it for what it's worth I guess... but, yes, I acknowledge the hypocrisy and am prolly as cynical as you when ppl seem to pretend it's not hypocritical <as I did at the time>.

Also I don't share your view on public servants being some virtuous bunch, who sacrifice personal gain to serve their communities. Sure, that must apply to some, tho i've yet to meet one. For any and all that i've met, it's a job (however, many seem to adopt that attitude, that they're making some sort of sacrifice for the greater, and i tend to view those in the same regard as I view ppl taking the dole and rationalizing it like i view a younger-me. That isn't directed at droppers- i haven't gotten the impression he is trying to pretend he could be making more in the private sector for same work, and is short-changing himself for us.)

/*if unclear about why i have disdain for my younger self, despite saying i'd do it all over the same, it's because the disdain is for the rationalizations i made. I would do it all over again w/o feeling it was wrong, because i value what the loans and job meant to me and my own progress, and that was a greater value to me than getting less for myself to avoid being hypocritical.
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Its a job to me but I do my best like I do anything and I maximize efficiency b/c my best is better then most state employees. I chose this position b/c I like my free time far more than monetary gain.
 
well, free time is a function of money gain, all things considered, no?

fwiw i don't take issue with you talking shit about gov bureaucracy in general, while working for them, tho in the strictest senses there can be some hypocrisy.
 
A job is a job, whether private or public. I mean, I frequent both fedex and the USPS and notice zero difference between the work ethic or demeanor of their employees. There are bored, emotionless workers at each location as well as enthusiastic workers. There is just as much corporate bureaucracy in large chain enterprises as there is in state run enterprise. I'm sure everyone here has spent an hour on the phone with a bank over something simple before.

Regarding shipping though, I find USPS more efficient than both Fedex or UPS. For basic priority shipping I'm usually waiting for exactly two days before a package arrives from across the country, and for much less cost. Whereas I paid for express shipping for a phone charger a week ago that still hasn't been delivered by fedex. We could also get into healthcare, but I'm more than certain there are already dozens of threads on the topic :P
 
^ya, but the idea is that, since i (personally) dislike usps, i should work at ups instead, even if i lose a buck an hour. I get that from an idealistic POV, but let's be real- most ppl who are considering gov jobs are not likely to take a serious financial setback just to prove a point, or because we're that offended by the idea that we won't partake the things we disagree with on broader levels.
/not that i doubt you knew that, this post is just me typing while falling asleep lol
//g'night bl, time to logout ;]
 
Droppersneck said:
I am not above anyone other then 99% of politicians imo.
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The vast majority of people that work for the government are not political appointments (although I will admit we do have a lot, maybe even too much, but the % is still very low when you look at total payroll expenditure). Most of them are people just like you that fill a role so that stuff can get done.
 
Fuck work. I believe in doing what is needed without having to rush through everything, but we should work to live, not live to work. It's sad how so many Americans use their jobs and careers as the main foundation and structure of their "identity."
 
wow i couldn't have guessed you'd have such an attitude ;)

i wonder what, if any, correlation exists between ppl who don't work or dislike work, and ppl who think wealth should be distributed from those who produce and create jobs, to those who just sit around 24/7

take the bait take the bait take the bait
 
bmxxx said:
wow i couldn't have guessed you'd have such an attitude ;)

i wonder what, if any, correlation exists between ppl who don't work or dislike work, and ppl who think wealth should be distributed from those who produce and create jobs, to those who just sit around 24/7

take the bait take the bait take the bait
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IDK he was conservative at one point. I think this site has converted him to an anarcho socialist...
 
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