Heroin Getting off heroin and getting on Subs -- any way to get sick faster??

[creeperzero]

I'm switching from heroin to Subs and was wondering if there is any way to make myself sick faster? I know how quickly one gets sick depends on size of habit, length of habit, perhaps metabolism (there has to be some reason why my wife gets sicker much faster than I do, right?) but I was wondering if there is a way to get sick faster... chugging tons of water, drinking "Detox" tea, taking vitamins or enzymes, anything?

I know this is ridiculous but I have to go to work tomorrow morning and haven't taken a dope in 18 hours, i'm worried I won't be sick enough to take Subs in the morning before work. Yes this is terrible timing but here I am, any help/suggestions would be much appreciated. If you need anymore info let me know but I think this is a pretty general question....

 

[Tommyboy]

If you aren't sick enough then what is the problem? As long as you can go about your day I don't see an issue. You just need to make it to the 24 hour mark before taking the suboxone without having to worry about experiencing precipitated withdrawals. Of course the longer you wait the better the suboxone will wait, so if you can wait 36 hours that would be ideal. Making yourself sicker quicker won't do you any good. Some people get sick after 12 hours and then have to go through a shitty 12 hours more before being able to take the suboxone, so you should consider yourself lucky.

 

[creeperzero]

If you aren't sick enough then what is the problem? As long as you can go about your day I don't see an issue. You just need to make it to the 24 hour mark before taking the suboxone without having to worry about experiencing precipitated withdrawals. Of course the longer you wait the better the suboxone will wait, so if you can wait 36 hours that would be ideal. Making yourself sicker quicker won't do you any good. Some people get sick after 12 hours and then have to go through a shitty 12 hours more before being able to take the suboxone, so you should consider yourself lucky.

hey Tommyboy, thanks for getting back so quick (and for fixing the title of my post, I couldn't figure out how). Sorry if I didn't explain myself properly, but the problem is I know that if I don't get sick in time to take subs BEFORE work, i KNOW I will be getting sick DURING work... and I can't sit through work getting sick and waiting to get sick enough to take subs. I live in NYC and haven't been to work in two weeks because of the damage from Hurricane Sandy so I HAVE to go tomorrow-- missing isn't an option -- so I was wondering if there is a way to make it happen faster.

I hate to say this is urgent because normally I'm the type of person to see the overall picture and I don't freak out about quick things like this but... I really thought I would feel terrible by now, and any tips on making this happen faster would be much appreciated.

BTW tommyboy, i thought if you can take subs whenever you get really sick, whether it be 12 hours or 24 or 36... if you get sick in 12, do you really have to wait another 12 to take? isn't your body a better judge of when ready than a clock?

thanks!

 

[Tommyboy]

My friends with IV heroin habits will get sick after 12 hours and they have taken subs at the 16 hour mark and gone into precipitated withdrawals. That's why 24 hours is a better timeline for when to dose. The reason why people that don't get sick for longer are supposed to wait is so that they can see how much suboxone is needed to make them well.

Getting sicker faster really won't do you any good. If you are past the 18 hour mark and are sick enough where it will effect your job then you should be alright to dose, considering you took heroin and not a long acting drug like methadone.

 

[Bill]

Just throwing this in here, Idk how experienced you are with bupe but don't expect to feel 100% better right away or even the whole first day on it, especially after coming off a nice size dope habit. Usually it takes 2 or 3 days to kind of get adjusted to the sub and alleviate all symptoms, depending on the size of your habit, length of use etc and still everyone is different

Not saying you're going to still feel absolutely horrible but the sub should hold you pretty well for the day as long as you wait long enough before you take it like Tommy said

 

[Tony Williams]

how dependent are you? and for long?

then you want no methadone in you. Ideally 24hr heroin butif you crave/need sub it. What is your dsoe for day 1? no more than 6mg IMO and do 2mg 2mg 2mg overday if you feel bad dont take more as it might be prewds. Worse case dosing opi ontop resets abit.

sleep and benzos.gbl pass time.

day 1 will be ok funtional. day 2-3 yeah ok but you will wd a bit from the high, the full ant bit. I find that.

 

[joonya77]

Good Luck OP. I feel where you're coming from. I'm on subs right now. I've been off dope 63 hours from a 3 year daily run. Keeping you in my thoughts...Good luck.

 

[Znegative]

There are certain enzyme inducers that can speed up the metabolization of opiates, and willsend youintowithdrawal faster. The problem is that since buprenorphine itself is an opiate and that means that an inducer used to speed up the metabolism of say, Oxycodone, can possibly have the same effect on the Suboxone/Buprenorphine. Also, I'm Really not sure if using inducers would actually even be that benificial for what you want to accomplish.

 

[down508]

If you have a naloxone kit handy that would make you sick, I have no experience but if you do the naloxone then an hour or two take the sub I think the heroin would be completely detached from your receptors, then the bupe would take its place as the naloxone gets metabolized. like I said I've never tried this but in theory it could work. I wouldn't recommend trying it though just an interesting thought.

here's a better idea, go to work, when the withdrawal gets unbearable... take the suboxone. problem solved.

 

[InHerOwnWrite]

You should be able to dose suboxone inconspicuously at work. If you start getting sick at work, go to the bathroom and put some sub under your tongue. It shouldn't take more than a couple minutes to start dissolving, and you can keep working while the rest of it gets absorbed. I did it at work today in fact, and was able to talk to people while a bit of sub was still dissolving.

 

[T. Calderone]

If you have a naloxone kit handy that would make you sick, I have no experience but if you do the naloxone then an hour or two take the sub I think the heroin would be completely detached from your receptors, then the bupe would take its place as the naloxone gets metabolized. like I said I've never tried this but in theory it could work. I wouldn't recommend trying it though just an interesting thought.

here's a better idea, go to work, when the withdrawal gets unbearable... take the suboxone. problem solved.

Nalexone came to my mind too. I had a friend who thought he took too much oxy and gave himself nalexone, and he got so sick. It would knock everything off your receptors quickly. But I wouldn't want to go through that because it's harsh.

 

[down508]

I took a naltrexone the day after a suboxone one day and felt like there was an alien spawn trying to get out of my gut... for 18 hours. I couldn't smoke cigarettes either because they were tasted so disgusting. I couldn't walk outside because the sun made my eyes burn like fire. never felt pain like that in my life. not recommended. the good thing about naloxone is that it only lasts an hour or two, naltrexone lasts a full day, and that's just the pills.

 

[Znegative]

Why the hell would he take Naloxone or Naltrexone to precipitate withdrawals, when the whole point, is that he wants to get sick faster so that he can avoid precipitated withdrawals when he takes the suboxone. I admit the whole thing doesn't make much sense...but if you're going to precipitate withdrawals, might as well do it with the Bupe.

 

[burn out]

This situation wouldn't work for me because when I transition I am always quite sick the first day of subs and I don't really feel any relief for a few hours after taking it. I would never be able to transition while working. As for how to get sick faster, well obviously this won't help the OP but if you have time to plan ahead one way to make yourself get sick faster is to use a shorter half life opioid. I have done this exact thing (used hydromorphone instead of heroin on a Friday) in order to ensure I would get sick sooner and be able to do the suboxone induction on a Saturday so I could make it to work on Monday.

Good Luck OP. I feel where you're coming from. I'm on subs right now. I've been off dope 63 hours from a 3 year daily run. Keeping you in my thoughts...Good luck.

Lol, strange coincidence I also am on subs now after being off dope about 63 hours. Well wishes to you and everyone else trying to free themselves from this addiction. Suboxone can really be a lifesaver. I can't imagine what it would have been like being a heroin addict before it came out. Detoxing WITH sub is bad enough.

 

[tyrael]

hey Tommyboy, thanks for getting back so quick (and for fixing the title of my post, I couldn't figure out how). Sorry if I didn't explain myself properly, but the problem is I know that if I don't get sick in time to take subs BEFORE work, i KNOW I will be getting sick DURING work... and I can't sit through work getting sick and waiting to get sick enough to take subs....

Obviously there would be difference between each person and of course the effect of said drugs, however ORT's (tbh this is true for Australia, elsewhere I'm not entirely sure) are often flexible to suit the pt. I know here in Aus upon induction into a ORT, a "replacement plan" is initially organised (this is; the dosage, time period required to be on it, when and where to dose, and such), stabilised on a regime and then can be passed onto a GP (instead of staying at, and using the resources of, rehab! I guess the thinking is as long as the pt is stable, supervised (often the GP and pharmacist - often pharmacies require the dosing of drug-replacement therapies to be viewed, made sure the pt is taking the dose) and seemingly on the road to recovery, why use specialised, specific ORT/DRT agency's resources.

Maybe I'm missing something but are you meaning every day (continuously) or you're just about to start a program? If it's everyday, it shouldn't matter if you're showing signs of withdrawal, you should be able to dose regardless! (hence the treatment often being chronic -_-). If you mean you're required to be in partial withdrawal to start on the ORT, then surely the rehab agency would be flexible enough to help work around work? (you're beginning the program to start living normally! they should be reasonable surely?! ). Failing that, (if possible) take a sick day! It's a legitimate reason and it shouldn't be a problem obtaining a sick certificate!

This situation wouldn't work for me because when I transition I am always quite sick the first day of subs and I don't really feel any relief for a few hours after taking it.....

(although I generally don't like to encourage someone to actually take drugs) The use of a shorter elimination period-opiate would work I guess You're not exactly on the program as of yet technically.

To the OP; it may take a week or two to get a dose stabilised specifically for you! In between which you may experience discomfort (essentially WD due to not having an adequate dose to prevent cravings). The onset time of Bupe is knowingly quite slow, often with a peak (plasma concentration) after at least an hour (subject to variability of course ).

The initial, first steps and getting stabilised can be a little rocky, but trust me (from experience) it really is well worth that initial short (albeit feels much longer!) uncomfortableness! Imo, Bupe/Subs really are the best therapy (for those who can't get off opiates themselves alone) for getting clean! You're on the road to recovery however, so cudo's to that and goodluck brother!!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

The reason why people that don't get sick for longer are supposed to wait is so that they can see how much suboxone is needed to make them well.

I don't think that is correct. How sick you are or how long it takes you to get sick does not determine the dose you receive. Waiting until you are sick is simply done to avoid precipitated withdrawal. People will be "less compliant" - aka scared to take more - if the bupe makes them more sick. From a buprenorphine induction handbook:

Standard Induction Protocol

Avoiding Precipitated Withdrawal
To avoid precipitated withdrawal, physically dependent patients must no longer be experiencing the agonist effects of an opioid. One way to gauge this is to observe objective symptoms of opioid withdrawal using the COWS Clinical Opioid Withdrawal Scale. Scores of above 10 are preferable. Due to patient individual variability, required abstinent times may vary considerably. Only use the time since last use as an estimate to anticipate the onset on withdrawal symptoms. If not in sufficient withdrawal (mild to moderate 5-24 on the COWS) it is in the patient's best interest to wait.

Though pre-induction guidelines are slightly different for patients dependent on long- vs. short-acting opioids, the induction and dosing process is the same. Give the first dose when the patient is at least in mild to moderate opioid withdrawal on the COWS scale.

Induction Day 1
On Day 1, opioid-dependent patients should be inducted with a 4mg buprenorphine dose, observed for 1-2 hours, then given a second 4mg dose if withdrawal symptoms reappear. Some clinicians prefer to start with a 2mg dose, which minimizes the potential for side effects and for precipitated withdrawal. A maximum dose of 8-12mg is recommended for Day 1. It's helpful to allow a 2-4 hour window of office time on the first day of induction. If the patient still experiences withdrawal symptoms or cravings after taking a total of 8-12mg on Day 1, the dose should be increased on Day 2.

 

[beengerman]

here's a better idea, go to work, when the withdrawal gets unbearable... take the suboxone. problem solved.

sounds like a plan to me