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Self-Love/Self-Hatred?

MyFinalRest

MyFinalRest

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Aug 22, 2011
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...I hear this a lot: "you have to learn how to love yourself before you can love others" etc.

I've honestly never been there...you know, to a point where I couldn't treat other people well because I "didn't love myself."

What is everybody talking about? What's wrong with so many people that they have to spend such an inordinate amount of time "learning to love and accept themselves" before they can have a decent relationship with someone else?

I never really think about whether or not I love or hate myself. It just doesn't click in my brain to describe a "relationship" with myself as if I was talking about someone else. It's definitely 3rd person language here.

Is it like you see yourself from the outside but you feel like you have no control over what you do and then, you have to decide whether you like or dislike yourself? Is it some lack of wholeness or coordination between your values and your actions?

In relationships, this particular statement - learn to love yourself so you can love others - seems like taking a vertical approach to a horizontal relationship. The direction of the advice isn't going to send you closer to someone else...

Maybe if you really don't love yourself, you need to quickly find out why and take control over your actions? I've certainly done things I regret, will probably some more things I regret, and I acknowledge that I'm not a perfectly made human being, but this doesn't keep me from being able to give and recieve love and value someone else's feelings.

So, please explain this phenomenon to me...why is this "relationship" with yourself preventing you from having a good relationship with someone else?
 
^ For me, it doesn't..

I have a group of close friends most of which i've known and been friends with for the past 11 years (I'm 26)..

And a girlfriend whom i have been friends with for about 8 years and been with for 2.5..

Wouldn't say I hate myself.. but I definitely don't love myself.. in fact i seem to have very little respect for myself.. I'm not a horrible person or anything but meh..
 
Well, I think that the statement refers to those who are either insecure with themselves or truly feel that they are "not good enough" to be loved and therefore usually end up in relationships that are co dependent or abusive etc.

If a person truly learns to love him/herself then they are much less likely to tolerate a relationship where someone puts them down, or manipulates or all that other mind trippy shit.

I mean, it is a cliche but all too common...how many relationships have you seen with an insecure, needy girl and a dickhead guy who play out the same shit every single time the relationship implodes, then rinse and repeat. Perhaps if those involved in these scenarios learned to "love themselves" for lack of a better term, they would be able to break the cycle and find a mature relationship based on mutual admiration and genuine love.
 
There are a few things I disagree with in your post as someone who has hated myself for many years -
First of all, it's not that it makes us treat other people badly. As Beachcat mentioned, it's more an idea of not being good enough for other people and it's a much more self-destructive thing.
And no it's not like seeing yourself from the outside. Well, that depends what you mean by that exactly. I don't really know how to explain it. For me, it's simply that I don't really enjoy my own company or much about myself in general so I don't see why anyone else would. Does that make sense?
Also, I'm perfectly aware of why I feel this way about myself but it's not a matter of simply 'taking control over my actions'. More a result of years and years of abuse so it's not something you can just snap your fingers at.
That being said, it hasn't prevented me too much from forming normal relationships, both friendly and romantic. Simply that I'll tend to bring myself down whenever I can thinking that my friends/boyfriend whatever don't really like me that much etc. and I have to calm myself down, rationalize and tell myself I'm exaggerating again.
 
If a person feels incomplete and seeks out a relationship (or are already in one) because it makes them feel complete, they are going about things the wrong way and doing both themselves and their (potential) partner a disservice. If you don't feel satisfied with yourself and your own life, a relationship isn't going to fix that. You're going to be bringing in a lot more neediness and vulnerability than is appropriate.

If a person like this ends up with a person who IS satisfied with their own life, there's a good chance they're going to come across as needy and overly clingy, because they need the other person's approval/attention to feel whole and happy. They weren't okay before the relationship, so it follows that they won't be okay after the relationship. This both puts them at a disadvantage in terms of "relationship negotiations" (i.e. they are susceptible to manipulation or being coerced into doing things they don't want to do) and they can seem suffocating to their partner. Either this, or they will overcompensate for their feelings of inadequacy by being overly controlling/dominating/jealous. IMO, jealousy's #1 fuel is a lack of confidence.

If a person like this ends up with another person like this, you have a perfect recipe for a very intense on-and-off relationship of exactly the sort Beachcat mentioned. I think the one he said is the most common one I've seen, with the girl taking the first route I said above, and the guy taking the latter.

I don't think its so much "you have to love yourself", but more that "You need to feel like your life is satisfying and complete, or at least on the path to that" before you go seeking out a serious relationship, or you're just going to complicate your road to a satisfying life.
 
That seems like a catch 22 to me. I mean how many people do you know with no relationships that are satisfied and content?

If all happiness was derived from within, the world would not be as it is.

If two people love each other and make each other happy, hell, they can even depend on each other for happiness, I see no problem with that.

The issue is attachment to the ephemeral, and even then, love and pain are better than emptiness and suffering.
 
Yeah, I see your point and agree. Let me clarify what I meant a bit. I meant romantic relationships specifically - those are where people sometimes seem to go seeking someone who will 'fix' or 'complete' them. I also didn't mean that one should be totally happy and content before seeking one out. I meant that someone should feel at least some satisfaction from their daily life and their accomplishments/progress/etc before seeking out a relationship. Otherwise they're just going to be a psychic parasite to their partner.

In any good romantic relationship, each person wants to make the other happy. But if someone is completely unhappy/unsatisfied with their own life and circumstances, that puts 100% of the burden of their happiness on their partner. That is an awful lot to ask of someone and I think it will strain the relationship. It should be a two-way street.
 
Au contraire, my friend. Loving yourself isn't the result of a schism between your values and your actions; it's the result of the complete osmosis of the one into the other. At least for me, my actions always correlate with my values. I don't see myself in third person and unable to control my actions. I am in complete control of what I do. Some people love themselves and treat others like shit, those are two different things. Loving yourself doesn't mean something is wrong with you and you have to accept it. Loving yourself is being proud of who you are regardless of outside input.

If you don't love yourself, you don't see yourself as a good person. This will show through in your actions. You will subconsciously do things to push lovers away. After all, you're a bad person, and they're too good for you. You don't deserve them. When you don't love yourself, you're insecure. Constant baseless accusations of cheating, endless need for reassurance, clingyness-these things get old quickly.

At the end of the day, all you have is yourself. Live your life the way YOU want, and you will love yourself.
 
it's more like self-respect. you can allow yourself to be completely lost in a relationship if you do not value yourself and understand what that means and place that above their approval.

being in a relationship when you hate yourself is kind of like trying to drive blind and asking them to steer or something. gee, it might be nice to have someone in the car with you but odds are not in your favor.
 
DeathDomokun said:
That seems like a catch 22 to me. I mean how many people do you know with no relationships that are satisfied and content?

If all happiness was derived from within, the world would not be as it is.

If two people love each other and make each other happy, hell, they can even depend on each other for happiness, I see no problem with that.

The issue is attachment to the ephemeral, and even then, love and pain are better than emptiness and suffering.
Click to expand...

That's good. Yeah, it is like a catch 22. Few of us are lucky enough to ever get this statisfied and complete life. Most of us will work jobs that are less than ideal, never get the dishes done when we want, etc. etc.

Why should we beat ourselves up even more with notions that we aren't good enough to date anyone because we don't like our jobs, for example? I personally don't give a fuck about being currently satisfied with something like my worklife, but I wonder...are some of these girls I've talked to taking that as a "bad sign" because I want to find a better paying, shorter hours job? I'm supposed to "already" have that shit taken care of? pshhhh...whatever.

In my late twenties, I do feel kind of "incomplete" for not having found a wife. It doesn't make me a desperate fool or anything, but damn...I think life is a bit empty for a passionate person like myself when I don't have a trusted female partner to share life with. The world is not a very "single friendly" place. If that makes me somehow deficient in personality or whatever, then bite me!

and Pagey, you have been way to hard on yourself. Hell, nobody really enjoys their own "company" that much. Even ascetic monks who live in hermit's life in a cave or something aren't doing it for their "own company." I got lots of interests and hobbies that I don't mind doing by myself, but our relationships outside of our selves really do validate and satisfy us more than anything we can do by ourselves, no matter what anybody says.
 
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MyFinalRest said:
I've certainly done things I regret, will probably some more things I regret, and I acknowledge that I'm not a perfectly made human being, but this doesn't keep me from being able to give and receive (i before e except after c ;)) love and value someone else's feelings.
Click to expand...

As entertaining and I dare say, refreshing as this was to read...

you more or less just answered your own question. one can never have a truly objective view of themselves, of course. however, it stands to reason that if one can happily forgive their own trivial insecurities, that essence of their self-perceptive awareness is inherently inspired by love; i.e. a love of oneself. This kind of humble acceptance (which translates more broadly into a graceful tolerance) of one's own flaws enables one to more readily express love, not prejudice, towards others (as well as themselves). In that sense, one and the other are in and of the one, single self, and love is itself the greatest force at play (the cornerstone of relationships, really, no?)

Plus, while I am aware of the human tendency toward both love and cruelty, it is my choice to reside primarily in selective disengagement with the latter force... and this largely informs my relationship 'worldview'.
 
i want to like two posts above. why doesn't this forum have this feature? couldn't agree more. not to sound arrogant but i would have thought "you have to learn how to love yourself before you can love others" speaks for itself. how could you ever like anybody if you can't even like yourself?
 
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