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CE&P social thread: why do the people I disagree with hate freedom so much?

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Let's all bomb Iran. Together, as one nation <3
 
Meanwhile, in China.

The other election: China prepares for a new Congress and president
NSFW:

It may be coincidental, but the 18th Congress of the Chinese Communist Party, which chooses the country's leadership for the next 10 years, opens two days after America's elections.
The Chinese process seems horribly complex. The 80 million members of the party choose those who sit on its Central Committee, who then select the 25-member Politburo which in principle runs the country.
In fact the outcome of the process in China is virtually predetermined before the Congress even begins. The way it is done, however, is a ghastly mix of balancing of the different elements of power within Chinese society. Players to be taken into account include representatives of the party, the military, big business and China's regions. It has 22 provinces, five autonomous regions, four central government-controlled municipalities and two special administrative regions to govern a population of 1.3 billion.

Divisions inside China include, as well, an urban-rural split, north-south competition, differences of interest between coastal China and the interior, and political power centered on particular individuals. A good example of the latter is the recent raging controversy about the fate of Bo Xilai, a major political personality. His wife was found guilty of murdering a British businessman; his son was reported to have a fondness for luxury cars while a student at Harvard.
The dangerous words "reform" and "corruption" have also been under discussion as the Congress approaches. There has even been talk about China moving toward a Singapore model of "flexible authoritarianism." The designated successor to President Hu Jintao, Xi Jinping, is said to be looking at reform, including opening up the government to greater representation.
In the meantime, the state of the Chinese economy remains the key element in the national picture, the basic source of legitimacy for continued Communist rule. The government announced gross domestic product growth of 7.4 percent for the third quarter of 2012, the lowest in three years.
Stern threats by the U.S. presidential candidates of intended action against China for currency manipulation are not entirely justified by the facts: China's currency, the renminbi, gained 8.5 percent during Barack Obama's presidency. Given the interdependence of the two economies, any post-election U.S. economic actions against China could have unanticipated negative effects on the American economy.
This situation will need to be revisited after both countries have been through their transitions and a new status quo exists. http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...ares-for-a-new-congress-and-president-659395/


I think China is a fascinating topic. They have created a very efficient system that has lifted people out of poverty like nothing the world has ever seen before. Yet at the same time their government is very exclusive, authoritarian and suppresses the wages of its citizens for the good of the party. All the while, the CCP leadership is very, very wealthy.

Their government controls the entire banking sector, and is the prime entity in funding industry. Through control of the banks they keep the value of their currency very low, which basically decreases the living standard of their people. The upside is that since people work for so little, foreign bushiness is extremely attracted to move their production to china. However, moving production to china has a price. Every big buisness in china must be approved by the party to operate. The party has no less than a 50% stake in any industry that it deems essential to the security of china. This equates to approximately 50% of all businesses in China being owned by t he government.

One thing that China has always lacked is technology. They are traditionally very isolated and have always been bested by other cultures because of their lack of technology (Japan and the British mostly). It is somewhat ironic that they have figured out how to catch up very quickly by luring in foreign business and having an ownership stake in the company to teach their people how to make everything.

Another major point of concern with China is their threat to US hegemony. When there is only one global superpower, things are usually relatively peaceful. However if China ever met or surpassed the US as far as millitary capabilities and global influence, the threat of WWIII would be very real. On the contrary, through globalization China and the western economies have become incredibly interdependent. Would either risk the health of their economies by attacking the other? Also, both are have nuclear weapons and would be deterred by retaliation in kind.

The CCP is meeting right now to decide their new leadership, they will likely be in control of the party for 10 years. It will be interesting to see if the new leadership intends to make any changes to the way things are right now.
 
Care said:
Yet at the same time their government is very exclusive, authoritarian and suppresses the wages of its citizens for the good of the party. All the while, the CCP leadership is very, very wealthy.
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Quick question - How would wage suppression of it's citizens necessarily be good for the party? What's good for the people tend to be what good for the party in the sense that an extremely discontented population with mass dissent is a major thorn in the side of the CCP. Sure, it may draw more foreign investment to the country, but lowering wages and living standards aren't what communist party officials are sent there to do. This causes disunity within the party, as well as opposition to these policies among the ordinary citizens. The market reforms and raising wages/standards of living are really what's keeping the CPC in power at this point.


Another major point of concern with China is their threat to US hegemony. When there is only one global superpower, things are usually relatively peaceful.
Click to expand...

Is this true, really? I would argue the direct opposite, with two superpowers acting as a check on the other, each of them entering a large scale military conflict with either power or with a puppet within their sphere of influence is highly deterred. With the exception of the Korean and Vietnamese wars, there really weren't any large scale proxy wars right between the US and the USSR. After the fall of the Soviet Union, however, American interests have forcefully (although sometimes peacefully) opened up relations with countries around the world seemingly unchecked. I think with the emergence of a new economic and military superpower in China, American imperialism may begin to face a wall of resistance around certain parts of the globe that it hasn't experienced since before the fall of the Soviets.
 
Americans are a disgusting breed of fuckers. How on Earth could a goon like Mitt Romeny be even close in the polls. America cannot have democracy. They will put people like Mitt Romney in power. Disgusting, filthy people.

In the words of Rev. Jeremiah Wright:

"GOD DAMN AMERICA!"

Disgusting place it IS!
 
tbh i think if you could chillax your emotions for a bit on such topics, you may come to better understandings of the ways things work (for better or worse)

/meh i shouln't address you in a social thread lol, but am gonna get to your "me generation" thread soon enough ;PP
 
Bardeaux said:
Quick question - How would wage suppression of it's citizens necessarily be good for the party? What's good for the people tend to be what good for the party in the sense that an extremely discontented population with mass dissent is a major thorn in the side of the CCP. Sure, it may draw more foreign investment to the country, but lowering wages and living standards aren't what communist party officials are sent there to do. This causes disunity within the party, as well as opposition to these policies among the ordinary citizens. The market reforms and raising wages/standards of living are really what's keeping the CPC in power at this point.
Click to expand...

Having low wages allows China to attract foreign business, lets take oil refineries as an example. China lacked the technology to properly operate the industry, so the party sets up special economic zones where they supply cheap labor and good infrastructure (power, roads, water, oil ect) and an effective monopoly on a 1.3 billion person market. Needless to say many businesses jump at the opportunity. The catch is that the operation is 50%+ owned by the CCP, so party members own the operation, get extremely wealthy and can eventually boot out the foreigners and run the industry by themselves.

Youre correct that this causes disunity among the people, but not among the party. The CCP is approximately 10% of Chinas population, and in order to get into the party you must be thouroughly on board with everything they do. And when uppity students start demanding democracy, they bring in the tanks.


Is this true, really? I would argue the direct opposite, with two superpowers acting as a check on the other, each of them entering a large scale military conflict with either power or with a puppet within their sphere of influence is highly deterred. With the exception of the Korean and Vietnamese wars, there really weren't any large scale proxy wars right between the US and the USSR. After the fall of the Soviet Union, however, American interests have forcefully (although sometimes peacefully) opened up relations with countries around the world seemingly unchecked. I think with the emergence of a new economic and military superpower in China, American imperialism may begin to face a wall of resistance around certain parts of the globe that it hasn't experienced since before the fall of the Soviets.
Click to expand...

While the cold war never actually came to blows there was always the threat of a large scale war between the US and USSR. Since the cold war, we haven't seen much of a threat of a large scale global war. I noted that nuclear and economic deterrence would be a factor in china and the US ever engaging in full fledged war, but the more power china gains the more realistic the possibility becomes. I dont personally think it will ever come to that, but the possibility is there.
 
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