Opioids Will natrexone (Vivitrol) really help decreasing PAWS symptoms?

[crestfallen]

I cold turkeyed 6mg of bupe 1 month ago and finally got past the acute w/d. Now I feel like im in PAWS territory and it is truly kicking my ass. I'm depressed and anxious most of the time and only sleeping a few hours every night. My sub doctor told me about Vivitrol, which is a month-long extended release naltrexone implant. He said that it helps post acute symptoms but I want a second opinion. I'm also tired/fatigued for no reason and motivation is non existent. I have a ton of adderall but I crash really bad which makes everything 10x worse. I can't get any benzos and I don't think I can take this for 3-6 more months. I'm currently using kratom a couple times a week but I think it might be prolonging my misery

Do you guys have any info on naltrexone helping ease post acute? Thanks

 

[Znegative]

This is an old thread but it's pretty interesting.

Here's a quote from Cane2theleft:

First, naltrexone will not alleviate withdrawal symptoms, instead it will precipitate them if you are physically dependent. In rapid detoxification protocols usually they put you under anesthesia and administer naltrexone so you quickly go through the withdrawal process... this sounds great in theory but is nearly universally discredited for a large number of reasons (there are threads on this so search around if interested, usually labelled "ultra-rapid opiate detox" UROD or similar terms should produce results).

Naltrexone, either orally or via implant, generally is most beneficial to block (antagonize) the opiate receptors so full agonists will not work. I suppose its *possible* that it will cut the PAWS symptoms shorter by helping your brain get closer to a normal state quicker as far as receptor sites and endorphin production and all that but that is assuming PAWS is purely caused by neurological changes. The general consensus is PAWS is attributed a number of factors from organic changes, damage from drug use and very largely from the psychological effects of chronically using mind-altering chemicals. I usually see PAWS more as the difficulty in transitioning from getting high to having to cope with life on life's terms.

If your main concern is PAWS, I think diet, exercise and counseling will expedite the process and alleviate more symptoms than naltrexone. In fact, I worry that the desire to use naltrexone is simply a manifestation of the problematic mindset that may have led you into drugs... that when something is wrong, simply take some chemicals. If you truly want to move past the drugs in your life, I don't think naltrexone will be your best bet.

If you think the antagonist effect alone will be beneficial to your transition to sober living, then I think it might be worth a shot. I would definitely read around here for people's experience with naltrexone however, because they are overwhelmingly negative.

 

[tentram]

and have a read through this ripper of a thread - Getting around a O'Neill Long Acting Naltrexone Implant (revia)

 

[Toz]

Weed / caffeine / modafinil / sedating antihistamnines helped me alot. Weed/antihistamines to sleep and modafinil and/or caffeine to manage to get up in the morning and actually do stuff. I doubt naltrexone will do anything at all.

 

[Znegative]

I can't seem to find any reason why Naltrexone would actually help PAWS. It seems more like something that doctors/counselors/etc.. Sometimes put out there as a truth, when in all actuality it does nothing but block opiates and in some cases, cause very dangerous behavior in addicts who become desperate to get high.

 

[tentram]

cause very dangerous behavior in addicts who become desperate to get high.

^point in case that thread i linked too; people wanting to rip them out on their own accord because of side effects such as depression and suicidal ideation. the dr in question is an extremely controversial fellow to say the least. he spreads that the naltrexone implants cure opiate to ecstasy to alcohol to gambling to cocaine to benzodiazepine to acid to datura to *insert what the fuck ever here* addiction at a 100% success rate...

 

[Toz]

^point in case that thread i linked too; people wanting to rip them out on their own accord because of side effects such as depression and suicidal ideation. the dr in question is an extremely controversial fellow to say the least. he spreads that the naltrexone implants cure opiate to ecstasy to alcohol to gambling to cocaine to benzodiazepine to acid to datura to *insert what the fuck ever here* addiction at a 100% success rate...

I have also heard this from fellow addicts so please if you want to give this a shot for gods sake try the pills (revia 50mg I think they are called here) before you get an implant that once put in, you can't get rid off.

 

[crestfallen]

bloody hell..that thread was pretty sad. I'm definitely going to avoid naltrexone

 

[Znegative]

I'm sorry to dissapoint you if you were hoping that this would work, I just feel that naltrexone treatment for opiate addicts actually goes against harm reduction, though Im sure some might dispute this.

In a more positive note my man,
I just wanted to tell you that like you I jumped off of a long acting opioid (not suboxone, but rather 100mg of methadone). Actually to say that I jumped off wouldn't be quite true, I was tricked into entering an inpatient program where I was told I would be tapered down to 50mg, and then after three days, switched to subutex to finish the taper (none of this happened). Anyway, the acute withdrawals were horrible, and I suffered for nearly six months from PAWS (which is actually lucky considering the fact that some people experience PAWS for a lot longer after kicking methadone..). However, I distinctly remember one morning waking up and feeling 100%-better than I had ever felt in my life. I was still assaulted by some symptoms here and there, but the improvement was so drastic and I was so proud of myself for sticking to it that I felt as though I could deal with anything. Oe of the biggest regrets I have to this day was picking up opiates again (after staying clean for eight months).

You can do it. Things will get better, a lot better and once you are pretty much free of PAWS you will also be able to see with clarity if there are any underlying mental disorders (anxiety disorders, bipolar, ADHD, etc..) which may have driven you to self medicate with opiates in the first place, and then get treated accordingly if this does happen to be the case. A lot of people that have been addicted for a long time forget what it actually feels like to be clean (and by that I don't mean in withdrawal or PAWS). Sure, something led us to use drugs in the first place, but IME, whatever that issue was, looking back its laughable compared to some of the hell I've been through during the worst days of my drug use.

 

[cook]

Low dose naltrexone might boost the endorphin activity in your body.

However, I distinctly remember one morning waking up and feeling 100%-better than I had ever felt in my life. I was still assaulted by some symptoms here and there, but the improvement was so drastic and I was so proud of myself for sticking to it that I felt as though I could deal with anything. Oe of the biggest regrets I have to this day was picking up opiates again (after staying clean for eight months).

I think this is the most dangerous part of detoxing, at least I have always relapsed very soon after I've had that god like feeling (from shorter withdrawals though) being capable of anything, like controlling opiate use. But it never works.

 

[Znegative]

Right, I definitely agree. Once you have kicked and knuckle through post acute withdrawal, you got to remain humble (not to get all twelve step on y'all), or else your own intelligence is going to slowly work up some rational seaming reason to use opiates again. It's pretty weird, but anyone who has ever attended outpatient treatment for substance abuse/dependency will probably attest to noticing a change in a "clean" addicts behavior weeks prior to their relapse

 

[crestfallen]

Thanks for the encouragement Z. Jumping off 100mg of methadone seems like it would be absolutely hellish. And on top of all that, the feeling of being bamboozled by the rehab could easily have led to very quick relapse.

I guess I have one more question since you seem knowlegable/experienced in w/d. I discovered kratom almost 2 weeks ago and have been drinking a small amount whenever I get real uncomfortable (usually every 2-3 days). It takes away the w/d and/or PAWS and I feel normal. Am I doing more harm than good if my ultimate goal is to be free of PAWS? Contrary to what most people would say, I'm not trading one addiction for another, I only dose a tbsp of powder when it gets to be too much. If it is going to keep me from feeling better in the long run then i will stop and suffer it out for the next couple of months I have a doc appointment in a week and hopefully I can get a benzo to help anxiety/sleep.

 

[brutus]

^ If you are a recovering opiate addict, it's best to stay away from kratom and you are just playing with fire plus prolonging the agony.

I can understand wanting a benzo for sleep/anxiety, but opiate dependence is a joke compared to benzo dependence in my experience. You don't want to trade one addiction for another.

 

[BlueHues]

Naltrexon is a blocker...Anyone who says it relieves the cravings for opiates is fucking full of shit...
I guess the idea is, "If you know you can't get high, it will help with the craving!"
Bullshit, IMO...
It's a big money making scam....Of course, the family of the addict will buy into anything, because they're desperate to see their loved one get off opiates...
The people profiting off people's addictions are shadier than the addicts themselves, IME.