Benzos Mulungu (Erythrina mulungu) for benzo withdrawal?

[bwanajzj]

Does anyone have experience using the South American root and bark of the Mulungu tree as an alternative to/or during withdrawal from benzodiazepines?

It seems like no one is really aware of it's use and potential, or at least it hasn't been studied enough and not many have claimed to have used it for anxiety/muscle spasms etc., which natives claim it is good against. It has been used for centuries in Brazil, am pretty sure of that much. But as a herbal alternative to 'Western' pharmaceuticals, I am not sure...

I would like to know if anyone has experience with it, much in the same sense as people using Kratom to get off opiates...

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I haven't personally tried it, so sorry I can't be of help there, but I do know it has sedative, anticonvulsant and anxiolytic effects and it has been suggested that it might effect the brain/nervous system in a way similar to benzos, so it makes sense to me that it could help. Sounds kinda similar to kava. Although it is not proven/accepted scientifically that either of these (mulungu or kava) do in fact work in the same way as benzos, either way they should help in some way nonetheless because of their effects. Not sure if people are going to have a lot of experience - mulungu isn't very well-known - so thought I'd reply just to give some info, hopefully someone will have tried it and can give you some personal experience

 

[bwanajzj]

Yesterday I crumbled and ate about a teaspoon full, did not feel effects. Traditionally I think it is brewed as tea, boiled for at least 20 minutes and then strained. But I have no idea about the dose. Of course, the higher the tolerance the higher the dose, but I am essentially looking for info on the smallest threshold dose and the expected effects. Other than that, any method of ingestion - both traditional and adapted - would be good to know more about.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Well I've commonly heard of people taking about 1-3 tsp, whether just eaten, mixed in water, or steeped in a tea. But the effects vary a lot from person to person, batch to batch, and depending on what part of the tree you use. And if you have a benzo tolerance/dependence that could make the effects less noticeable for you. Are you currently trying to use it to help with benzo withdrawals? And by not feeling effects, did you mean it didn't even help with your withdrawals?

As for how to prepare it, I have heard of many different ways, but I don't really know how much better time-consuming extractions using heat or alcohol are than just eating it or adding it to cold water. However, it does seem the typical preparation is to make a tea or a tincture, so I assume there is something to those methods that makes it worth it. Here are a couple:

- Put 1 to 3 tsp in a mug. Add boiling water, put a lid or saucer over it to keep anything from evaporating. Let it sit for 10 min or more, consume as needed.

- Add 1- 2 tsp per cup of boiling water in a pot. Cover and reduce heat to medium so that the mixture stays at a good simmer, keep covered for 20 minutes. Cool, strain, add honey and lemon to taste if you desire, and consume as needed. (some people say that the lemon can help release the alkaloids, so maybe it would be good to add it earlier in the process?)

- Soak it in a small amount of alcohol overnight (or longer). Strain.

It's probably best to make a bit more tea than you think you will need so you can gradually titrate your dose. Drink some on an empty stomach, wait at least 30 minutes and if you notice no effects drink some more. Maybe you could try making 4-6 tsps worth, then drinking 1 tsp worth per dose or something? (I say start with 1 tsp just in case making a tea does make it a lot stronger).

I'd be interested to know how it goes.

 

[bwanajzj]

I have been taking ~0.5mg clonazepam almost daily for the past 1.5 months, before that I took higher doses and different benzo types for some months on and off over the past year. I am physically dependant from using it recreatively too long, and as the story usually goes - I have stuff to do every day and can't afford to be wrecked. So to ween off it, I was hoping to use Mulungu as I have about 50g of it or so, maybe more. I don't remember what is in each bag and I don't have a scale, but it is irrelevant anyways, as I can get more quite easily if need be. But it would be cool if it were possible to entirely replace a benzo habit with Mulungu and then ween off it easily. I have not experimented further than the one teaspoonful the other day, but perhaps tomorrow when I am 24hrs off clonazepam, I will give it a go. At that time from last ingestion, I usually feel mild benzo wds, so I guess that would be a good transition point to Mulungu.

^Thanks for your input. Much of what you say is also the info I have on it, and each preparation method has its pros/cons.

I think the most easy and effective home-made concoction would be to make a tincture by boiling it for a long time with a little citric acid and reduce liquid to a minimum, then add high % alcohol to extract any alkaloids that may not have been extracted by boiling, leave for some time, strain and evaporate further, and then dose by syringe and mix it with juice for example. Nonetheless, I hope to be able to use it simply by chewing the tree-matter and swallowing Primitive style... Only issue could be bitter taste, which is also why I am reluctant to make tea...

 

[JackARoe]

Lots of experience with mulungu here. I predict it will become more and more apparent that it has strong tranqulizing properties and will gain more attention as time goes on. I am not easy to move off a dime so it took a bit to work with mulungu before I almost wrote it off. The same with kava, it took a year or two to learn how to make an effective brew that actually worked to the point of their being no question it worked. I don't like substances where you have to "look" for effects. Mulungu is not one of those for me with a proper brew. However I should say we have no benzo toilerance and don't use benzo's anymore.

It takes me (and my wife) a good fistfull of *bark* that I powder myself in a coffee grinder and simmer for 20 minutes with some lemon juice added. It takes more than a few teaspoons for me that's for sure. But a moderately strong brew can be had from a proper amount and simmer. I probably should weigh my dose so I know for sure how many grams.

The effects are subtle but strong too, probably around 10 mgs of diazepam but wears off quicker. My wife was able to get to sleep at night after stopping a 6 year kratom daily kratom session with mulungu. Knocked her out on nights 3 and 4. Then she was much better.

I would experiement with the *bark* pieces that have to be powdered and not buy already powdered root. I did that once and almost wrote it off. There are vendors that sell root pieces and i find them the strongest. And although mulungu may be written off by many people now, in the future it won't be. Sort of reminds me of how Salvia was written off until 1994. The usefulness of mulungu will become apparent in time and some people already know how to utilize it.

 

[bwanajzj]

The usefulness of mulungu will become apparent in time and some people already know how to utilize it.

I hope so. When possible, natural alternatives are always the best to conquer medicinal problems.

^Thanks for the input. I mostly have bark from the tree, but also some root, a pretty good mix. I will use a bunch of it in a brew and see how it works, ingesting a little at a time so as not to end up overdoing it.

 

[bwanajzj]

Mulungu tea... my first brew.

Ok, had to go ahead and try it out, so that I know what taste to expect and so on.

Used a small handful of raw dry bark, broke into smaller pieces and simmered for 20 minutes in water with a few drops of lemon juice added.
As soon as it started simmering, a beautiful red colour came about the water.

Once I poured it into the cup it looked evil (like a Rooibos tea that had gone to hell and back, but still not as evil looking or smelling as a concentrated opium brew). Before making it sweet, I decided to taste it first 'au naturale'. After tasting that it wasn't bad compared to the smell, I added some honey which compliments it a lot. However, if concentrated brews are made, I think I would just hold my breath, swallow fast and get it done and over with. This brew I made is mild, at least in taste. Will get back later in terms of effects.

Now that I have made a quick boil and taster, I emptied an entire bags contents into the pot and will let simmer for a looooong time, since I haven't ground it properly. Then I will just pour onto bottle and let cool and try it tomorrow or whenever I feel like it. I will likely boil the plant material again in fresh water and acid and combine the two extracts. At least when I used to make a lot of opium tea in the same manner, the pod material was still good for a third time brewing, if not more.

Below are some pics of the mulungu and the process:

NSFW:

The mulungu in the bag, finger for scale.

The simmering Mulungu, teaspoon for scale.

The brutal brew Same teaspoon for scale.

 

[brutus]

I have never tried mulungu, but I could definitely see how it would help during benzo withdrawal.

On a completely unrelated note, phenibut works great for benzo WD.

 

[bwanajzj]

Great... just screwed up my mental and physical reference points by smoking a bowl. So now of course I'm relaxed... But I am well acquainted with the effects of weed and can distinguish GABAergic effects from those of cannabinoids. So I guess I'm still good. But all in all, after a relatively mild cup of mulungu tea and a tiny bowl, I feel really chilled, perhaps in a way I have not felt before. But placebo can do wonders apparently :D

 

[JackARoe]

I mostly have bark from the tree, but also some root, a pretty good mix.

I'm sorry bwanajzj, I meant to say bark, not root. I keep mixing up the kava and mulungu plant pieces. Kava is root, mulungu is bark. I actually wasn't sure there even was mulungu root, but I'll look into it. I changed my original post to say bark instead of root.

 

[bwanajzj]

^No worries. Turns out that what I though was root pieces in my mix were actually the inner bark, very fibrous and hard.

The following link is to a research paper where alkaloids found in Erythrina sp. were tested in mice and where comparable effects to meds such as diazepam were observed:
Effect of Erythrina velutina and Erythrina mulungu in rats submitted to animal models of anxiety and depression
The Erowid page on the Erythrina sp. is also worth having a peek at.

...I have now had about 3 cups of tea from a brew made on what I think is about 30-50g of bark. I still have for about 4-5 cups, the result of boiling the plant material twice removing the tea and adding fresh water in between. I am pretty sure that I am succumbing to the effects of E. mulungu, feeling a bit dazed and motor function is slightly impaired. The onset of effects is definately quite slow. I would imagine if made into an alcohol tincture, it would take effect much quicker. I look forward to see if there are any effects on dreams.