Mental Health PTSD treatment discussion

[ocean]

I happened across an article about the possibility of a future a little pill or injection that may erase memories.
(Was in a magazine and not available online at this point but I will give other links on this)
This injection or would be pill is called ZIP.
It's been tested on rats and they're able to erase certain memories, but not all.
My interest in reading about ZIP, was first spawned by the idea of a "cure" for PTSD, as some people have tossed out as a possible outcome of ZIP or zeta inhibitor peptide.
With the ability to erase certain memories, those traumatic memories could potentially just be wiped from our minds, in turn 'curing' ptsd....

This had me diving headfirst into once again investigating effective therapies for PTSD.
First on ZIP:
PKMzeta is responsible for long term memory . The idea of PKMzeta blockers is both fascinating and frightening to me.
As noted in many articles, such as the one I am linking here, our long term memory holds so much....
While memory does morph a bit throughout time on its own- there are times when the physical reaction to the memories will remain the same- leaving people to suffer through sometimes unpleasant sensory memory.

This isn’t Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind-style mindwiping. In some ways it’s potentially even more effective and more precise. Because of the compartmentalization of memory in the brain—the storage of different aspects of a memory in different areas—the careful application of PKMzeta synthesis inhibitors and other chemicals that interfere with reconsolidation should allow scientists to selectively delete aspects of a memory.
Right now, researchers have to inject their obliviating potions directly into the rodent brain. Future treatments, however, will involve targeted inhibitors, like an advanced version of ZIP, that become active only in particular parts of the cortex and only at the precise time a memory is being recalled. The end result will be a menu of pills capable of erasing different kinds of memories—the scent of a former lover or the awful heartbreak of a failed relationship. These thoughts and feelings can be made to vanish, even as the rest of the memory remains perfectly intact. “Reconsolidation research has shown that we can get very specific about which associations we go after,” LeDoux says. “And that’s a very good thing. Nobody actually wants a totally spotless mind.”

(from article linked above)

What would be the consequence of such a decision for patients trying to remove memories for emotional healing/PTSD?
Here is a paper written some time ago on the legal/ethical implications of "dampening memories" - This was possibly in reference to the studies taking place for years now on Beta blockers such as propranalol. ?
With beta blockers you're removing the negative emotional reaction to a memory, dulling it down a bit and not actually removing it altogether...Propranolol is being prescribed for anxiety atm.

Another , slightly unrelated, at least to PTSD, treatment option this medication could eventually be used for is chronic pain.
Physical trauma and pain, those 'ghost pains' a person may suffer after losing a leg, or some central nervous system disorders, such as fibromyalgia - could this be the solution for these nervous system issues?
It is suggested that if a person may be injected through the spine with ZIP while enduring physical pain, it may help to remove the memory held within the body of the pain. The theory is very interesting and exciting for that purpose- though I struggle personally with the potential complications.

Will a delete button of this sort have a restore? When you're removing something so major as a memory, a part of your life, can they create a 'go back' pill? Who knows at this point....and can a person wanting a memory erased truly know that this is the best option for them....will they consider all of the possibilities or will they be in that mind frame many people with PTSD will be just wishing it away and see this as an easy way out?
Who will be the deciding party?
We're a long way out from this actually taking place as a treatment option, but not so far out that it's not being considered.
One exciting outcome of ZIP could be, if they CAN create the memory eraser, then will our future hold a memory restorer?
That may also be of benefit both physically and mentally for many people.....say people suffering from Alzheimers or people repressing memories.
If the memory is brought back, they then have the opportunity to grow from it.
There are so many ways to view this, so many opposing thoughts on my end- why it is exciting and good and why it is such a horrible idea to try on the human brain.

What do you think?

Reading through so many different articles on ZIP brought up so much about Beta Blockers and MDMA therapy options for PTSD patients.
Beta blockers and MDMA therapy studies are not anything new, but an excellent alternative imo.
Many of you may be aware that beta blockers are being used in study to help remove the physical reaction a drug user will have when exposed in a mental or visual way to a drug during therapy sessions, which in turn has been shown to remove the desire to use.
If proven effective long term this could be excellent for recovering addicts, lessening their struggle, and increasing the number of successes in recovery. (Though it is said to only be effective for some drugs)
The idea of beta blockers and MDMA is a beautiful thing to me- with beta blockers and MDMA, you remember.
There is no delete key or magic eraser with those therapies, only a reduced negative reaction in most cases.
I believe that traumas are something we gain strength and grow from- so the idea of erasing the memory then begs the question, do we keep the lessons and beneficial things that have may have come from the pain or are they just disappearing along with the memory of the traumatic event? Probably not since it effects the entire memory system, right?

I personally feel that MDMA therapy would be the most beneficial for someone like myself.
As much as I've said "I wish I could just forget", I don't want that.
I know the negative things in my life have happened for a reason and I certainly do not want to forget them-
I DO, however, want to find a way to face the traumatic events that have taken place in my life and move past the negative reactions I have when the memories flood me.

SO....TDSers- here is some related reading.
Memory Reconsolidation and Therapy
Blog with good info on ZIP, memory reconsolidation and other therapies
Posted above- Wired article on the "Forgetting Pill"
MDMA therapy for PTSD


I'm really interested in hearing your opinions!

 

[herbavore]

I am inclined to think like you--our memories are our lives. How could we learn from trauma if we could simply erase the memory of it? I understand that in some cases PTSD can be completely debilitating rather than scary, uncomfortable but manageable (how I would classify my own experience with PTSD). In the most extreme cases, perhaps when a person is chronically suicidal or cannot go out of their home or something equally life threatening or life ruining, then the use of this drug may be warranted. I almost feel like it should be regulated in the same way Oregon's assisted suicide is, i.e. two different doctors agreeing that the person's life is in danger or their quality of life is so impaired, they have exhausted every other treatment available and the intensity persists and then the person must be of sound mind to make such a decision.

It is interesting for me to think about the two things in my own life that have caused PTSD: an attempted rape by a stranger when I was 15 and finding and feeling Caleb's body. In the first instance, I think I would gladly accept such a drug. The memory of that experience was so debilitating for so long and in so many ways. Everything that came out of that experience was negative. I still have many residual effects and they are all negative. There is a part of me that thinks it would be a good thing if they really could selectively remove just that memory; yet two thoughts immediately follow that one. 1) How selective can it really be? and 2) since when is any chemical treatment not creating other symptoms as it "cures" the target symptom?

Finding Caleb's body is not a memory I want to give up, though I still have occasional panic attacks (physical symptoms of heart racing and dizziness) as well as a reliving of the whole terror/denial/terror of the experience. But it was a real experience that changed me in some very powerful ways and mostly not negative ways. Somehow not having that experience would make it worse. There was a circle in that experience. It was he and I only at the beginning of his life in the birth process and it was he and I alone in that room where his life ended. I needed to touch his body and to honor it. I am not sorry that it was me that found the body even though it is excruciating. For these reasons, this is different than how I feel about the horror of the attempted rape. Both experiences gave me PTSD symptoms and residual effects in my daily life; but one memory I would gladly give up and one I cannot imagine giving up.

I am very interested in the use of MDMA and even other psychedelics as a way to treat the symptoms of both of these experiences. I actually have been actively looking for a therapist that does this kind of work but haven't found anyone. There is a MAPS trial going on but it is only for veterans. I have watched a couple of documentaries on how MAPS is sponsoring the use of LSD in treating the fears about dying in those with terminal illness and it looks very effective.

 

[ocean]

^Right, I too have looked into the studies being run atm and unfortunatley there aren't many w/ MDMA therapy.
I've read QUITE a bit on MAPS' veteran study and I have been seeing more and more MDMA therapy brought up in articles as an effective tool....the studies done thus far are showing great results!

 

[Bambooshoot]

As a sufferer of PTSD for the past 5-6 years, I would welcome any treatment that would make me forget..

 

[ocean]

^Forgetting would likely remove all of the lessons that come from the hardship you've endured.
Do you think that if it were possible to rather disengage the negative physical and emotional reactions from the traumatic memories, it would be more beneficial for your development? Each of these dark days that we experience are likely only going to strengthen us....there have often been times I have thought "I just want the memory gone" but when I am not in the negative mindset I can recognize the positive I gained from the experience.

 

[blight12]

Paxil helped in forgetting and not obsessing with my ptsd symptoms, the underlying concerns and illogical thoughts remained but where manageable, the worst is constantly obsessing and expecting it to happen again at any time even though logically its unlikley. What also helped is a mindset change to minimize the core related fear. For me it was accepting that death is inevitable and should not be feared, as well as realising there is nothing you can do to control what happens in life. The annoying thing with anxiety and ptsd is the illogical beliefs that cant be dealt with logically

 

[herbavore]

The annoying thing with anxiety and ptsd is the illogical beliefs that cant be dealt with logically

So true!

 

[OhCrap]

I too am a sufferer of ptsd and have been battling anxiety and depression as a result for the past 7 years. Mine stems from a brutally physical and emotionally abusive relationship where I was actually held against my will and sexually abused on one occasion as well. The memories of it and the things I experienced and saw are truly unbearable for me and it was an experience that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I am on the fence about this one....while I would like to never have another flash back, nightmare, or panic attack I believe that without that experience I would not be the person I am today, which isn't entirely terrible to be honest. So...I'm not sure I'd want to forget it as crazy as that sounds...

 

[Bambooshoot]

^Forgetting would likely remove all of the lessons that come from the hardship you've endured.
Do you think that if it were possible to rather disengage the negative physical and emotional reactions from the traumatic memories, it would be more beneficial for your development? Each of these dark days that we experience are likely only going to strengthen us....there have often been times I have thought "I just want the memory gone" but when I am not in the negative mindset I can recognize the positive I gained from the experience.

I don't know that I gained anything positive from my experience. I am 100% sure that it has shaped me into the person that I am today but tbh I don't like the person that I am. I think I would be a much better and happier person without this experience. So I suppose even if the memory was removed I would still be the same person which would make removing the memory kind of redundant I suppose. What do you think?