Adderall is to meth addiction as Methadone is to opiate addiction

[Stimlover22]

I consider myself addicted to crystal meth, and the only way I can see myself never using meth again is if I hada prescription to Adderall/Dextroamphetamine as a replacement.I have heard many psychiatrists are starting to use Adderall to treat meth addiction like methadone is given to heroin addicts. I have a referral for a shrink that specializes in addiction psychiatry and contemplating making an appt, and telling him of my addiction, and a desire to completely abstain from using methamphetamine if I could receive a replacement for meth in the form of a once a day Adderall XR prescription. If I can't get it, I know i will always use meth like i have been, but its worth a shot. Whaddya think?

 

[fatstep]

Adderall has to be approved for maintenance by the fda before this can happen, I highly doubt he would do it off label.

 

[footscrazy]

I don't believe you can equate adderall to methadone or bupe. Methamphetamine addiction is very different from opioid addiction, I believe it's a red herring to think that because maintenance/substitution works for one addiction, that it'll automatically transfer to another type of addiction.

It depends what your goals are - but it's is my belief that if you aim to quit, substitution with prescribed amphetamines has little value. If not, I also think that switching to them over meth has limited value in terms of being 'healthier'. There's an argument to be made that being prescribed a legal alternative reduces many of the harms that are associated with drugs simply because they're illegal - price, legal worries and so on - but as a prior meth addict, at least IMO, I find the idea of 'substitution' for meth completely inapplicable. Unlike opioids, whereas I find even a small amount, not enough to get me high, will provide relief if I'm in wd, I found the opposite with meth - using a little bit kicked the cravings into overdrive and set my mind on one task only - get more. Furthermore, amp or meth are both ultimately unsustainable in the long run, at least not without continuing decline in mental faculties and physical health.

I agree that's it's very unlikely you'll be legally prescribed amps as a treatment for your meth addiction. I also think it's worth asking yourself what exactly it is you think are the benefits of using adderall over meth?

 

[Stimlover22]

I don't believe you can equate adderall to methadone or bupe. Methamphetamine addiction is very different from opioid addiction, I believe it's a red herring to think that because maintenance/substitution works for one addiction, that it'll automatically transfer to another type of addiction.

It depends what your goals are - but it's is my belief that if you aim to quit, substitution with prescribed amphetamines has little value. If not, I also think that switching to them over meth has limited value in terms of being 'healthier'. There's an argument to be made that being prescribed a legal alternative reduces many of the harms that are associated with drugs simply because they're illegal - price, legal worries and so on - but as a prior meth addict, at least IMO, I find the idea of 'substitution' for meth completely inapplicable. Unlike opioids, whereas I find even a small amount, not enough to get me high, will provide relief if I'm in wd, I found the opposite with meth - using a little bit kicked the cravings into overdrive and set my mind on one task only - get more. Furthermore, amp or meth are both ultimately unsustainable in the long run, at least not without continuing decline in mental faculties and physical health.

I agree that's it's very unlikely you'll be legally prescribed amps as a treatment for your meth addiction. I also think it's worth asking yourself what exactly it is you think are the benefits of using adderall over meth?

Ty for ur input. I think adderall would be better for a few reasons..

1. Amphetamine is not neurotoxic, whereas METHamphetamine is (main reason)
2. Amphetamine is not quite as potent, but similar enough I could enjoy the stimulation, retain a mood lift comparable to a meth buzz. Refucing major missed psychological cravings.
3. Pharmaceutical amp/dextro amp is made in professional labs by certified trained chemists, crystal is made with what is cheap and done mostly by unexperienced underground cooks.
4. Cost; a 30 day script for adderall is under $15.00 under my ins, im lookin at over $100.00 for potent shards.
5. Legality: Dextroamp is legal with a valid prescription (obviously)

There ya go. I know stimulant addiction is drastically different that opiod addictions; however just because there is no physical dependence with amphetamines, the hellish psychological addiction almost makes up for physical addiction and if you truly struggled with meth addiction
i know you would definitely agree with me. So now, do I have any valid reasonings here?

 

[Roger&Me]

^Regular ol' amphetamine is most certainly neurotoxic, excessive dopamine release itself is neurotoxic because dopamine is metabolized via a toxic peroxide intermediate. Study your basic pharmacology, yo.

 

[xxsicknessxx]

it isn't comparable that's for sure, and my advise to you is this I once told a psy that I wanted to never do street drugs or any illegal drugs, and asked if you would prescribe me adderal telling him that I was scared if I didn't have it I would want to use street drugs. He claimed I was trying to blackmail him and called me a drug addict... lol... I mean you tell them the truth and they punish you had I told him the symptoms of ADD instead and played dumb I prob could of gotton it... but I had decided I wouldn't lie to doctors about something like that. Anyway I doubt he will give it to you, and I don't think it will work that way I think the stimulants would make you crave more instead of satisfying your desire to use. I mean do you do a little meth then feel like you had enough? Or do you keep doing it and doing it untill your out and need more.. ask your self that *shrug* BTW IMO not a good idea just quit drugs... I have heard of using stims to get off of opiates in other countries they prescribe them for that, but never have I heard of anything for stims... any drug that helps a person get off of them I think you just gotta suck it up and quit *shrug*

BTW I had the same idea as you at one point in my life, and I wonder if the stupid doctor had given me what I wanted if maybe I things would of worked out better, but im just saying In all my years of life never once has telling the truth giving valid reasons and any amount of info ever gotton me what I asked for with doctors (essp) when it comes to a drug like that. In theory though it makes sense if your going to use drugs no matter what, you might as well get them from a doctor right? IF you know your not going to quit and stay clean ... but that doesn't mean abuse it ... My reasoning is that you might be self medicating with meth for ADD and so by treating the ADD with proper medication your cravings may go away

self medication is a very crazy thing its amazing what you do to your self with out knowing it.

just my thoughts could be wrong

 

[Jean-Paul]

i would like to ask a similar thing. i took adderrall for the first time in years, it was enjoyable while i was coming up, but quickly i was just anxiety ridden and edgy. is meth essentially like amphetamines, but stronger? so intensify that feeling? or is there some other way you could describe it to me besides that? not going to do meth to find out.

 

[ebola?]

Regular ol' amphetamine is most certainly neurotoxic, excessive dopamine release itself is neurotoxic because dopamine is metabolized via a toxic peroxide intermediate. Study your basic pharmacology, yo.

Sort of. For reasons not entirely understood, methamphetamine is a great deal more neurotoxic than amphetamine at equistimulating doses (where similar quantities of dopamine are released, and thus similar quantities of oxidative species are produced). Animal studies suggest that reasonable doses of amphetamine (~40 mg orally ingested d-amphetamine?) are not relevantly neurotoxic while no innocuous level of methamphetamine has been found.

ebola

 

[Stimlover22]

Sort of. For reasons not entirely understood, methamphetamine is a great deal more neurotoxic than amphetamine at equistimulating doses (where similar quantities of dopamine are released, and thus similar quantities of oxidative species are produced). Animal studies suggest that reasonable doses of amphetamine (~40 mg orally ingested d-amphetamine?) are not relevantly neurotoxic while no innocuous level of methamphetamine has been found.

ebola

Thank you, that is what I was trying to get at, therapeutic doses of d-amphetamine are not neurotoxic, so perhaps "Roger&Me" needs to study therapeutic neurological effects of d-amphetamine a little better before trying to call me out..just sayin

 

[footscrazy]

So now, do I have any valid reasonings here?

Yes you do. I said there benefits to using adderall in my initial post; you've included them in your reasons here. I do wonder about this:

2. Amphetamine is not quite as potent, but similar enough I could enjoy the stimulation, retain a mood lift comparable to a meth buzz. Refucing major missed psychological cravings.

As I also brought up initially, at least for me, using less meth/amp than I needed would usually make me crave a lot more. I think this is a real risk with meth/amphetamines. I also have my doubts you will 'retain a mood lift comparable to a meth buzz' on adderall. IME, pharmaceutical amphetamines are much weaker than meth, and if you have a decent meth habit or use reasonably pure shards, you're probably not going to feel much, if anything, from a therepeutical dose of amphetamine. Given you've mentioned the severe psychological dependence, do you think it's realistic that you'll be satisfied with adderall and will able to stick to a small dose, especially if you don't get much effect off it? Considering that the damage from amphetamine is more pronounced with higher dosages, if you went overboard trying to catch a buzz, this is something to keep in mind.

 

[RR279]

You're likely to abuse the Adderall script. I have an adderall addiction and everytime in the past I've tried to take therapeutic doses I end up caving in and binging again.

Cold turkey was the only way I've been able to stay sober. Being that you have a meth addiction your situation is very unlikely to be different from mine.

How deep is your addiction? How long and often have you used?

 

[JackiesBabyy]

I've heard of some doctors giving low doses of ritalin for cocaine/meth addiction, and ritalin in high doses is more uncomfortable than recreational. If not, ask about wellbutrin, it has virtually no abuse potential unless you're dumb enough to IV it, and it's a mild DRI.

Another good thing for stimulant withdrawal is ephedrine. It's OTC in the US still and if I'm coming off of a 2-FMA binge, taking 100-150mg helps the anhedonia and no energy part of it. It's far more potent of an NE releaser than a DA releaser though so don't do it if you have a bad heart.

 

[bounceygirl]

Dont take any prescription amphetamines as a substitute to methamphetamines. IME it had the opposite effect.... i kept popping the pills trying to get that same feeling that smoking meth did, but all it did was give me terrible anxiety and made me sooo edgy and shitty. Not to mention my tolerance for "amphetamines" sky-rocketed! So when i did get on the gear i was going through it so much quicker. Once you've developed an addiction for the illegal stuff its hard to go back to the legal/prescribed stuff.... there is just no comparison....

 

[JackiesBabyy]

Dont take any prescription amphetamines as a substitute to methamphetamines. IME it had the opposite effect.... i kept popping the pills trying to get that same feeling that smoking meth did, but all it did was give me terrible anxiety and made me sooo edgy and shitty. Not to mention my tolerance for "amphetamines" sky-rocketed! So when i did get on the gear i was going through it so much quicker. Once you've developed an addiction for the illegal stuff its hard to go back to the legal/prescribed stuff.... there is just no comparison....

You're joking, right?

Even with my very high stimulant tolerance, a low stimulant dose won't get me high, but it'll keep me from feeling like crap, and if I need to take a tolerance break, tapering is FAR, FAR less painful than cold turkey-ing it like most seem to.

 

[$ublimaze]

For the record, a therapeutic dose of amps is toxic. It may not be AS toxic as crystal, but its still toxic. If you think it aint, your kidding yourself. And just cuz its not as bad as crystal, that doesnt mean its not bad.

 

[RR279]

For the record, a therapeutic dose of amps is toxic. It may not be AS toxic as crystal, but its still toxic. If you think it aint, your kidding yourself. And just cuz its not as bad as crystal, that doesnt mean its not bad.

You have to take therapeutic does of amps for quite a while to get any neurotoxicity, and even then it's unlikely to even really be noticable.

I've been taking assanine doses of adderall for a year and a half, towards the last 6 months I've even exceeding 400 mg/day at times. I was clean for 2 weeks prior to this morning and my cognitive functions mirror what they were prior to they were when I tried speed. I don't know how far I can go before any deficits become permanent and I hopefully won't find out, but I'm also 23 years old and my body seems to compensate better than average. On top of that I also body build and take part in other activities that increase neuroplasticity in addition to practicing in quite a bit of harm reduction.

Results will vary significantly from person to person however, I'm simply giving my personal experience.

On a related note, brain damage from amps is mostly caused by dopamine being down-regulated over time. When you stop your body slowly starts to up-regulate to (hopefully) get your levels back to where they were previously.

If you were somehow able to keep from abusing adderall (which is EXTREMELY unlikely), I suppose it could be beneficial in the sense of using it to drop a meth addiction to keep you strong during the early withdrawl phase. It would also be beneficial in the sense of using it to supplement for meth if you lack the willpower to drop the habit entirely.

HOWEVER, keeping your dopamine levels falsely elevated with adderall won't allow your body to up-regulate itself and you will still be stuck in a harmful addiction, and for that reason among other things I would recommend cutting cold turkey. L-Tyrosine and 5-HTP will help quite a bit in reducing withdrawl symptoms, they are prerequisites to the neurotransmitters you're now lacking from your meth use and will assist in helping bring those levels back up.

Good luck with whatever you do and stay strong.

 

[JackiesBabyy]

For the record, a therapeutic dose of amps is toxic. It may not be AS toxic as crystal, but its still toxic. If you think it aint, your kidding yourself. And just cuz its not as bad as crystal, that doesnt mean its not bad.

You know what else is toxic? The chemical particles in the air (unless you live in a very rural, secluded area) you breathe and the preservatives in almost all food you eat.

They checked all of those kids who grew up on ritalin and adderall for signs of neurotoxicity, there were none. They showed no heart or brain abnormalities.

 

[Renz Envy]

As someone that was using 20-50mg of street meth daily as a way of giving myself a cheap "psuedo-adderall script" I found vyvanse to be the most effective at tapering off of the addiction. Vyvanse is metabolized in such a way that provides the user with satisfaction, but does not seem to do the same damage that other amphetamines do.

Though. Life is much better without amphetamines. Therapeutic or recreational.

They checked all of those kids who grew up on ritalin and adderall for signs of neurotoxicity, there were none. They showed no heart or brain abnormalities.

I strongly question that study as both of those drugs have influence on a broad range of hormones that can effect development during puberty.

 

[RR279]

As someone that was using 20-50mg of street meth daily as a way of giving myself a cheap "psuedo-adderall script" I found vyvanse to be the most effective at tapering off of the addiction. Vyvanse is metabolized in such a way that provides the user with satisfaction, but does not seem to do the same damage that other amphetamines do.

I disagree with the Vyvense remark. It is full of levo-amp, which has no euphoric effect and greatly increases the damage to the heart and cardiovascular system.

levo-amp= norepi reuptake inhibitor, no recreational use but it it vasoconstricts and increases HR.

dextro-amp= dopamine reuptake inhibitor(for the most part), it is what causes the euphoria from Adderall abuse and although it vasoconstricts and increases HR, it doesn't do so to the extent that levo-amp does.


Adderall= roughly 75% dextro-amp and 25% levo amp

Vyvanse= roughly 25% dextro-amp and 75% levo amp

I was taking EXTREMELY high doses when it was all I had and experiencing arrhythmias more frequently than I do with Adderall. Not to mention the stuff lasts for EVER, especially when taking recreational doses.

 

[Stimlover22]

I disagree with the Vyvense remark. It is full of levo-amp, which has no euphoric effect and greatly increases the damage to the heart and cardiovascular system.

levo-amp= norepi reuptake inhibitor, no recreational use but it it vasoconstricts and increases HR.

dextro-amp= dopamine reuptake inhibitor(for the most part), it is what causes the euphoria from Adderall abuse and although it vasoconstricts and increases HR, it doesn't do so to the extent that levo-amp does.


Adderall= roughly 75% dextro-amp and 25% levo amp

Vyvanse= roughly 25% dextro-amp and 75% levo amp

I was taking EXTREMELY high doses when it was all I had and experiencing arrhythmias more frequently than I do with Adderall. Not to mention the stuff lasts for EVER, especially when taking recreational doses.[/QUOTE

Idk man, when I took two 70mg vyvanse first time awhile back, I got pretty spun and a decent mood lift for about 12-15 hrs, pretty consistent while absolutely no ups and downs