Family sues Kalamazoo County for inmate death heroin withdrawl

[cj]

^^^
Opiate withdraw can kill you peer reviewed studies have proven this. Our jail system is currently refusing to believe this hopefully this law suit will set a precedent.

 

[trees_please]

@voxide- I dont care what the withdrawls are from. It seems the prison (like any other corporation) neglected to outfit her with the bare minimum of care. No shit her death isnt normal, its very obvious she needed treatment and its fucked up to know that there are an ever-increasing people in our country that look down on some for no reason other than their own beliefs.

 

[Voxide]

@voxide- I dont care what the withdrawls are from. It seems the prison (like any other corporation) neglected to outfit her with the bare minimum of care. No shit her death isnt normal, its very obvious she needed treatment and its fucked up to know that there are an ever-increasing people in our country that look down on some for no reason other than their own beliefs.

Bare minimum of care? It's not their job to get you through withdrawals. It's not the jails' problem to begin with.

People on this forum constantly moan about how their rights are being curbed because drugs are illegal. If you're responsible enough to use heroin, you should be responsible enough to take care of yourself when your own use backfires on you.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I personally know someone who almost died from Morphine withdrawal. He thankfully made it to the emergency room in time after being told by a doctor that his life was in danger.

Sekio: I would have the jails carry methadone and make the addict pay a premium for it in any way possible when they get out.

 

[trees_please]

I see your point, but if you think for one second im complaining about my rights, you are sorely mistaken. This story has nothing to do with me and the exorbitant volume of rights that are awarded to me simply because I was born in this country. All i was trying to point out is that you seemed to be lacking in sensitivity about a situation that any of us could find ourselves in. dont know if you care about that or not. i dont, and it was merely circumstancial. not meant to be a personal attack.

 

[Voxide]

I see your point, but if you think for one second im complaining about my rights, you are sorely mistaken. This story has nothing to do with me and the exorbitant volume of rights that are awarded to me simply because I was born in this country. All i was trying to point out is that you seemed to be lacking in sensitivity about a situation that any of us could find ourselves in. dont know if you care about that or not. i dont, and it was merely circumstancial. not meant to be a personal attack.

I wasn't referring to you in general, it was more of a general statement about how people claim they're responsible drug users, yet expect others to hold their hand when shit hits the fan. If you were responsible, you wouldn't have gotten addicted. It sucks that she died but the suit simply isn't needed. There wouldn't have been withdrawals if she wasn't a heroin user in the first place.

I just can't help but get the impression that the family just wants the money that they probably provided for her in order to fund her habit returned to them in this fashion. They're pointing the finger at the wrong people.

 

[cj]

^^^
Your right shes a junky its good she died in agony in a cell! Fuck it maybe we should just send all opiate users to the firing squad thatll teach them. Shit pisses me off addiction is a public health issue that has been corrupted by the criminal justice complex. Would you agree that withholding HIV medication from prisoners is ok because its a self inflicted disease?

 

[Voxide]

^^^
Your right shes a junky its good she died in agony in a cell! Fuck it maybe we should just send all opiate users to the firing squad thatll teach them. Shit pisses me off addiction is a public health issue that has been corrupted by the criminal justice complex. Would you agree that withholding HIV medication from prisoners is ok because its a self inflicted disease?

None of that has any relevance at all to the topic. Good job completely twisting everything I said around into a bunch of bullshit.


Oh, and HIV is not always self-inflicted. It can be passed on from birth as well. Shows how much you know.

 

[slimvictor]

If you were responsible, you wouldn't have gotten addicted.

Think so?
Is it theoretically impossible to be a responsible addict?
What about coffee or nicotine addicts? Does it depend on the drug?
Maybe addictions to drugs that you personally don't like show irresponsibility in your mind?

And I hardly think that saving someone's life when they are withdrawing is "holding their hand".
So it seems that you have very little compassion for your fellow humans.

 

[Selfmeditaker]

Voxide makes himself sound so extremely ignorant its amusing. Read the lawsuit dude, the ruling is more than likely going to be in favor of the plantiff. Take your ignorant self to another thread and talk your shit. I mean come on, he thinks that alcohol is the only withdrawal that can kill you8(8) Read a book, a medical journal, internet websites for sake man.

 

[qwe]

Bare minimum of care? It's not their job to get you through withdrawals. It's not the jails' problem to begin with.

if you go to jail, the jail has you in "custody." maybe you could type the word into wikipedia, or just type in "human rights." try it. trust me, your mind will be blown.

People on this forum constantly moan about how their rights are being curbed because drugs are illegal. If you're responsible enough to use heroin, you should be responsible enough to take care of yourself when your own use backfires on you.

what do you mean by "responsible enough?" what does that have to do with whether a person needs a particular medication to function?

 

[Voxide]

Think so?
Is it theoretically impossible to be a responsible addict?
What about coffee or nicotine addicts? Does it depend on the drug?
Maybe addictions to drugs that you personally don't like show irresponsibility in your mind?

And I hardly think that saving someone's life when they are withdrawing is "holding their hand".
So it seems that you have very little compassion for your fellow humans.

Lol at comparing coffee and nicotine to heroin. This is the classic asinine argument that so many of you make. Pretty sure I don't have to murder, rob, and prostitute to get a cup of coffee in the morning. Good try.

Voxide makes himself sound so extremely ignorant its amusing. Read the lawsuit dude, the ruling is more than likely going to be in favor of the plantiff. Take your ignorant self to another thread and talk your shit. I mean come on, he thinks that alcohol is the only withdrawal that can kill you8(8) Read a book, a medical journal, internet websites for sake man.

I'm done with you. You didn't bring up a single good point and you're basically crying and moaning about how she should have been helped because it was "the right thing to do". It doesn't work that way. You can't tell me I'm wrong and then make an appeal to morals to prove you're right.

if you go to jail, the jail has you in "custody." maybe you could type the word into wikipedia, or just type in "human rights." try it. trust me, your mind will be blown.what do you mean by "responsible enough?" what does that have to do with whether a person needs a particular medication to function?

You didn't have the right to intoxicate yourself on heroin to begin with, why should the prison system pay you back with those rights?

 

[ro4eva]

If you were responsible, you wouldn't have gotten addicted.

Your assessment in this girl's untimely death and your credence in her condemnation on the basis of responsibility - in this case, she was irresponsible to become addicted to heroin - is so absurd that in another life, I could effortlessly envision you as the bane of witches and necromancers. For surely it is through their ungodly enchantments that so many have succumbed to this Great Pestilence ravaging your nation in the year of your Lord 1350. Plus, a bunch of rats told you so.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, not everyone wakes up one morning and says, "I wanna be a junkie." Many, many heroin addicts are actually victims of circumstance. Case in point - Jane Doe is on her way to Disney World. A drunk necromancer driving in the wrong lane collides with her head on. Jane fortuitously survives her ordeal. Little does she know that due to the permanent, severely painful nerve damage in her lower back, she'll eventually be considered responsible for an addiction she never asked for. Jane will eventually wish she had perished in that car accident.

Jane's family witch doctor, who immediately chose to incite her on a strong narcotic potion - one which she hadn't abused or attempted to refill early - has abandoned her because Jane had pulled off - quite possibly - the most irresponsible course of action conceivable after six months of lingering pain management: Jane told doc that as of recent, every morning she wakes up with flu-like symptoms and also that before long after she proceeds with her daily dose of MS-Contin, the ungodly flu-like manifestation seemingly vanishes. This testimony caused Jane's quack to promptly - in essence - advise her to fak off. Jane has now done it. No more refills from her former MD. Not even the hospital will dispatch her with as much as a prescription for Tylenol 3.

Fast forward about six more months. Jane is now regularly spending quality time with her monotonous nodding cousin, Todd, who she despised for irresponsibly becoming addicted to heroin. Jane now finds herself frequently kissing Todd's feet for providing the pain relief which had eluded her ever since her former GP cast her out of his office. All's not well however, as she will eventually learn that she's HIV positive and die a lonely, painful death without her husband and children who have also left her and without Todd who had recently overdosed on what actually turned out to be fentanyl.

Looking back, was it Jane's wrongdoing in that she developed a physical dependency to the prescribed morphine? Was it her negligence which led her doctor to stop her prescription? Was it her responsibility in that she became addicted to heroin after no one other than good ole' Todd would help her escape her torment? Was it her lapse in judgement which caused her to share a needle with an aquaintance - thus, contracting HIV - because there was no needle exchange program in place in the area? Was her death completely her fault? If someone copied Jane's story, pasted it in a major newspaper and ran an online poll, how many do you think would answer yes to all these questions?

If I told you Jane's tragic fate - from accident to death due to complications from living with full blown AIDS - is actually based on a true story, would you believe me?

 

[Voxide]

Your assessment in this girl's untimely death and your credence in her condemnation on the basis of responsibility - in this case, she was irresponsible to become addicted to heroin - is so absurd that in another life, I could effortlessly envision you as the bane of witches and necromancers. For surely it is through their ungodly enchantments that so many have succumbed to this Great Pestilence ravaging your nation in the year of your Lord 1350. Plus, a bunch of rats told you so.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, not everyone wakes up one morning and says, "I wanna be a junkie." Many, many heroin addicts are actually victims of circumstance. Case in point - Jane Doe is on her way to Disney World. A drunk necromancer driving in the wrong lane collides with her head on. Jane fortuitously survives her ordeal. Little does she know that due to the permanent, severely painful nerve damage in her lower back, she'll eventually be considered responsible for an addiction she never asked for. Jane will eventually wish she had perished in that car accident.

Jane's family witch doctor, who immediately chose to incite her on a strong narcotic potion - one which she hadn't abused or attempted to refill early - has abandoned her because Jane had pulled off - quite possibly - the most irresponsible course of action conceivable after six months of lingering pain management: Jane told doc that as of recent, every morning she wakes up with flu-like symptoms and also that before long after she proceeds with her daily dose of MS-Contin, the ungodly flu-like manifestation seemingly vanishes. This testimony caused Jane's quack to promptly - in essence - advise her to fak off. Jane has now done it. No more refills from her former MD. Not even the hospital will dispatch her with as much as a prescription for Tylenol 3.

Fast forward about six more months. Jane is now regularly spending quality time with her monotonous nodding cousin, Todd, who she despised for irresponsibly becoming addicted to heroin. Jane now finds herself frequently kissing Todd's feet for providing the pain relief which had eluded her ever since her former GP cast her out of his office. All's not well however, as she will eventually learn that she's HIV positive and die a lonely, painful death without her husband and children who have also left her and without Todd who had recently overdosed on what actually turned out to be fentanyl.

Looking back, was it Jane's wrongdoing in that she developed a physical dependency to the prescribed morphine? Was it her negligence which led her doctor to stop her prescription? Was it her responsibility in that she became addicted to heroin after no one other than good ole' Todd would help her escape her torment? Was it her lapse in judgement which caused her to share a needle with an aquaintance - thus, contracting HIV - because there was no needle exchange program in place in the area? Was her death completely her fault? If someone copied Jane's story, pasted it in a major newspaper and ran an online poll, how many do you think would answer yes to all these questions?

If I told you Jane's tragic fate - from accident to death due to complications from living with full blown AIDS - is actually based on a true story, would you believe me?

Of course I'd believe you. But the hard truth is that many addicts simply end up addicted because they refuse to learn about the drugs they use, and thus, it consumes them. For some, drugs literally are their God.
It's true that doctors inadvertently cause some people to get hooked. It's also true that most of them are just weak willed individuals who don't respect their bodies. Regardless of the excuse to use heroin in the first place, there's always someone who will have it worse and they don't need a substance to get them by.

A "responsible" drug user does not get addicted. I put that in quotations because a truly responsible person wouldn't be breaking laws in the first place, but lets leave that aside and focus on the fact that if someone wants to use a drug, they should at least be smart about it.

 

[ro4eva]

^^^ If heroin was legal, would you use it for any reason?

 

[Selfmeditaker]

I don't think you quite understand they these medical professionals neglected to perform their jobs. A person was taken into custody and informed them of her medical situation and the dangers of it were known to them. They did not perform any medical examination, take a pulse check, a b/p check and the list goes on as stated in the lawsuit. She ended up dying a horrible death on the floor of a jail cell. Im not even saying anything about giving her methadone or anything like that. Im talking about the standard quality care that every human being has the right to regardless if they are a prisoner. She didnt get that and died in their custody. Her blood is on their hands and they should(and most likely will) pay.

Why are you on a pro-drug/pro-harm reduction site when your so against drugs and think junkies deserve to die this way because they arent "responsible users"?

 

[cj]

None of that has any relevance at all to the topic. Good job completely twisting everything I said around into a bunch of bullshit.


Oh, and HIV is not always self-inflicted. It can be passed on from birth as well. Shows how much you know.

lol and you are complaining about me twisting words around.

 

[Voxide]

^^^ If heroin was legal, would you use it for any reason?

No.

lol and you are complaining about me twisting words around.

Because you are. I never once made an implication about HIV or killing all addicts or any of that bullshit. This is typical drama queen behavior from your part. The topic is about this inmate and this death alone, so let's focus on that instead of some off-topic tangents that really don't add anything to this discussion.

 

[ro4eva]

Voxide, I just read your "if you're gonna use heroin and the shit hits the fan, you should be on your own" statement.

Should the same not apply to smokers whose shit has hit the fan? Screw them, they knew what they were getting themselves into? Let them choke and suffocate to death?

They sure are choking the healthcare system in the U.S. Some staggering smoking statistics indeed:

Total annual public and private health care expenditures caused by smoking: $96 billion
- Annual Federal and state government smoking-caused Medicaid payments: $30.9 billion [Federal share: $17.6 billion per year. States’ share: $13.3 billion]
- Federal government smoking-caused Medicare expenditures each year: $27.4 billion
- Other federal government tobacco-caused health care costs (e.g. through VA health care): $9.6 billion

Taxpayers yearly fed/state tax burden from smoking-caused gov’t spending: $70.7 billion ($616 per household)
- Smoking-caused health costs and productivity losses per pack sold in USA (low estimate): $10.47 per pack
- Average retail price per pack in the USA (including sales tax): $5.29

People who die each year from their own cigarette smoking: approx. 400,000
- Adult nonsmokers who die each year from exposure to secondhand smoke: approx. 50,000
- Kids under 18 alive today who will ultimately die from smoking (unless smoking rates decline): 6,000,000+
- People in the USA who currently suffer from smoking-caused illness: 8.6 million

Smoking kills more people than alcohol, AIDS, car accidents, illegal drugs, murders, and suicides combined, with thousands more dying from spit tobacco use. Of all the kids who become new smokers each year, almost a third will ultimately die from it. In addition, smokers lose an average of 13 to 14 years of life because of their smoking.

The statistic that stands out for me is the number of adult nonsmokers who die each year from exposure to secondhand smoke. It's more than the combined annual deaths from prescription (32,000) and illegal drug use (17,000).

Or - in your opinion (because it's legal) - is it the right thing to do to spend taxpayer money, your (hard-earned?) money on cancer treatment for a smoker?

 

[sekio]

Here's perhaps a more relevant gedanken-experiment: if this girl were arrested and brought into police custody, but had a medical requirement for e.g. anti-clotting or anti-hypertensive medication which was denied, and she died on the floor of her cell from a stroke brought on by high blood pressure, would there be a legal case?