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    Drug Discussion


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Who should be allowed to use drugs?

Maybe not name calling but it is pretty fucking rude, Ive just got a different opinion than you.

Might be time for bed.

MY opinion is that legalising MDMA would have a negative effect on society, and it seems to me that the majority or research on the subject would agree with me.
 
Legalizing any illicit drug whether it's Mull or MDMA would lead to a very counter productive society.

When Mull was decriminalized, one was "allowed" to grow outdoors for personal use, provided it was of a certain height... I think??
 
I don't think it's rude, you still haven't proven me wrong. In fact, if you think MDMA has no beneficial use in psychotherapy, then you're simply reinforcing my belief.

Legalizing any illicit drug whether it's Mull or MDMA would lead to a very counter productive society.
Tell that to Denmark.
 
I actually meant to say Holland, not Denmark.
I'm not gonna entertain this petty discussion any longer though, any decent discussion about legality other than stating it would have a negative affect on society or be counter productive without any further elaboration might spark another reply, but this is just stupid, even for my standards.
 
^ they didn't legalise it either. Dutch drug laws are more hypocritical that most countries. And they don't have the excuse of being ignorant.

On topic, I've always liked the idea of having both drug using centres as well as licensing.
Centres would be for both the dispensary of the drugs and a controlled safe environment that would be available to use them. Not to mentioned staffed by people who are experienced in a range of medical, psychological fields. Or just experienced users.
As for the licence, I think a kind of many tiered driving licence system might work. First couple of drug experiences would have to be supervised (whether its by someone with an appropriate licence or in the drug centres in like a class type situation, might depend on the type of drug etc) and maybe some sort small theory test, things to do with tolerance, addiction and drug drug interactions. I also think the licence tiering should take into consideration dose, quantity per month, ROA, environment of use and drug combinations. Each class (ie psychdelics, stimunlants etc) would have its own licence as well and would probably have different age limits, lower for say pot and higher for say opiates and higher risk drugs. Obviously a prescription from a medical professional would override all this licensing stuff.

I would just love a system that would enable people to choose exactly what that desire to consume, but for that system to make sure that the individual actually understood exactly what it was they were choosing. I think that is one of the greatest risks of drug use, how many people out there havn't realised what they were doing until far too late (im talking about dose and addiction here). But hey, if you want to go destroy yourself, then thats your prerogative.
 
The thing about MDMA is that its unproven there's not enough evidence for or against.
Any responsible government would never allow wide spead use, let alone condone its use among the general population.

Imagine 20 years from now there's an epidemic of mental health problems that have been connected to MDMA use. Imagine the controversy of a previous government allowing this kind of thing to happen.

Think Tobacco,asbestos and lead.

The lack of research concerning mdma (or other drugs) possible detrimental effects is a valid point, but as I see it, making drugs illegal drugs doesn't change this. People still use drugs. Legalising them isn't going to cause these harms to start happening because they already are. Using your example, if in 20 years there's an epidemic of mental health problems connected to mdma, it will sure enough still happen if drugs are kept illegal.

Legalisation is a proposed mechanism to actually reduce the likelihood and severity of these harms (keep in mind that they're going to occur under criminalisation anyway). Taxes from drug sales can be put towards research, rehabilitation, education and so on. People will be more informed in how to use safely, and harmful adulterants can be removed.

The only valid point I see in this sort of argument is the assertion that legalisation could cause a greater number of people to use than before. Whether this will happen, and whether the increase in the multiple aspects of harm reduction under legalisation - drug services, education, purity of drugs - will counteract the greater harms incurred from a greater amount of people using - is where I think the attention should be focused.
 
The UK government found their citizens couldn't show much restraint when mephedrone was legally available. Jump over to EDD and read through some threads and you will find first hand a number of new addicts whose first step was caning this drug because they were legal. Somehow given our Anglo roots and current attitude to alcohol etc, I don't hold great hopes that Australians would show much more intelligence.

As I have mentioned previously I won't be applying for a licence. I am sure my workers union would jump down hard and expel any member who admitted to drug use, legal or not. Ditto for my insurance companies from income protection to car and health insurance. I plan on doing what I do now, keep my head down, my nose clean and maintain good contacts with a reliable black market. The extra money I save from lower premiums (we are talking close to $10 000 a year) would easily cover the higher consumer costs.
 
The UK government found their citizens couldn't show much restraint when mephedrone was legally available. Jump over to EDD and read through some threads and you will find first hand a number of new addicts whose first step was caning this drug because they were legal.

Maybe they needed "Responsible Service of Mephedrone"? But yeah point taken some people cant control themselves when it comes to getting high. I've never taken Meph before but I understand its not quite so user friendly as MDMA but more redosable? Am I right?

I plan on doing what I do now, keep my head down, my nose clean and maintain good contacts with a reliable black market. The extra money I save from lower premiums (we are talking close to $10 000 a year) would easily cover the higher consumer costs.

None of us have any choice but to do this and generally it works fine. The main fear I have is of one day being in the wrong place at the wrong time with some police involved. One would have to be fairly unlucky but just think of what that's going to do for your employment prospects...
 
This thread is relevant to my interests.

I live in the states, and actually in a state with medical marijuana and decriminalized recreational use (is illegal to sell or grow, but possession is a simple fine). I am also actually a Medical Marijuana Patient, and although it is "medical" there is, in relity, nothing that stops anyone from getting a license, as permissible ailments include anxiety, depression, naseau, and insomnia, so pretty much anything.

It was a slow process, with decriminalization happening in the mid 90's, and then a slow adjustment by the establishment to this which set the stage for Medical Marijuana Legalization which happened in 2008. There has been backlash, and stops and starts in the program, but things run well now, and I predict that in 10-15 more years we will be passing a bill legalizing and regulating recreational marijuana.

Anyways, the medical program. There are 16 states with mmj, so it is perhaps the best case study for what might happen with legalization, and what should happen. Regulation ranges from state-run growing and distribution to total free-market policies with minimal oversight and lrge black markets. In practice, it appears that lax regulations actually help the black market thrive. If we are concerned with harm reduction, we need the right people to be accessing cannabis, whether it is a function of age or medications, mental health, whatever, these regulations are important. At the same time, too much regulation is ineffective, in which case even people with licenses continue to buy on the black market. In my opinion, my state got it just right.

At first, the laws were more lax, there is a plant limit per patient of 5. So that is 5 plants you cn grow, or 5 you can assign to a "caregiver" which is usually a dispensary, so the state always knows a max amount of marijuana that can be legally produced, and the product is accounted for from growing to manufacture and distribution. This is more lax than regulations with say, pharmaceuticals in this country ( probably because the dea is not involved), but slightly tougher than with alcohol or tobacco, which is where I think it should be.

Anyone is free to go into business as a grower, dispensary, or distributor, but you have to obtain permits and account for all the product you handle. This is pretty much identical to alcohol and tobacco law designed to eliminate the grey-market imports and dealing common in these industries.

Drugged driving is the same penalty as drinking and driving. Reselling marijuana bought by a patient would be similar to being caught sneaking alcohol to a minor.

The system works well here. The people that should not have it weed themselves out through stupidity or choice. The relatively unrestricted access actually seems to make people more responsible as they realize the nanny state is not there to take care of them.
 
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^ That's really interesting, especially that more lenient regulations have corresponded with a bigger black market. Thanks for your perspective muvolution.
 
I think alcohol or any drug should really be restricted to anyone under 25 because the brain is still developing until that point

Thankully i am over 25 so it wouldn't effect me and had i been under 25 i would vehemently oppose such an age limit but as i am not in such a situation i say 25 should be the age limit
 
They will have to raise the age to join the armed services then. If you can vote you should be able to drink. I was performing surgery in hospitals and captaining first grade football teams at 21. I'll be fucked if I couldn't shout my mates a beer at the end of the day. I don't think it is a matter of increasing the age limit more making 18 years old grow the fuck up. If you want to have adult responsibilities then you have to act like an adult. The couple of 17 yr olds who took the police on a chase the other day and were shot at the end had the cheek to complain they were only kids and should be let off. At 18 you are an adult and as such you have a responsibility to be treated as such.
 
And adults should get over their superiority complex when it comes to age. I mean, yeah, you're older. That doesn't make you a fucking messiah.
 
Age means fuck all in my opinion as far as worth goes. So what, you're fucking wrinkled, does that mean you deserve more respect? Does everything you say now warrant more credence? Have you experienced more than a younger person just because you've existed longer?
None of this is inherent. Fuck respecting your elders based on the premise they're older, respect those who earn your respect not those who arbitrarily demand it.
 
Sure some teenagers are plenty intelligent. That's not the issue. The thing is that your body may be more susceptible to damage when it hasn't matured properly. I have seen some studies on this with relation to weed, not sure about other drugs. Mind you if you had tried to tell me that when I was 17 I would have told you to get fucked all the same.
 
exactly. developing brains and bodies are more vulnerable than adult brains.
also, if you develop a drug addiction before you've reached maturity, you may never know a different way of living, and have a very hard time breaking the habit. these things are all relevant in discussing drug policy.

it strikes me as a little naive to say that age and experience should not be worthy of respect...sure, there are a lot of foolish grown-ups in the world, but it probably isn't apparent to most of us until we are older that time and experience does give you a lot more wisdom and perspective. should you be respected for this? i suppose it depends how you use it.

when you are below a certain age (be it 16, 18, 21 or whatever) it may seem like the height of unfairness to have certain things restricted from you. it may be unfair, but the reality is that you will eventually pass that arbitrary age of maturity, and often these restrictions sometimes exist with good reason - i'm talking very generally, and it really depends on the circumstances.
hell, children used to be expected to do physical labour in place of getting an education. the modern attitude of protecting young people from adult expectations cuts both ways, really. you can start smoking at 9 if you want, but you will have to shovel coal for 10 hours a day.

the point is, you soon reach an age that gives you all sorts of "adult freedoms" and quickly forget what it was like to be too young to do certain things. it's all a part of growing up, and in a culture that has so few 'coming of age' rituals, it sort of serves this function. i took plenty of drugs in my teenage years, but i'd be better off now if i hadn't.
 
I'm pro decriminalisation of drugs but I want you to read the stories of Heroin/Meth/ect addiction that litter this HR website and tell me that age and experience count for nothing.
 
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