Physical space?

[Biovail]

So you're saying the presence of matter (or mass) does effect the passage of time? A massive, dense planet would spin slower (not because of friction) because it's mass slows the passage of time around it? To anybody inside the gravitational field of the planet, it would appear to spin at a normal, unaffected speed, because time would be slowed for that observer as well. But the further the observer is from the massive planet, the more they're able to notice the slowing of time? So I think density is only related to this phenomena in that the denser the mass, the more concentrated the distortion of time becomes. A planet with equal mass but 1/3 the density would distort time by 1/3 as much, but over 3x a larger area. So the net distortion of time stays constant.

Assuming this is all correct.. A universe with zero mass would experience time infinitely quickly. Basically, there would be no time. And a universe with infinite mass (and density) would experience time infinitely slowly. Again, there would be no time.

Strange, the only other thing I know of that effects the passage of time is speed. Maybe mass and velocity are related somehow? Anyway, sort of off topic, but interesting none the less. Maybe I'm completely off track :D

 

[panic in paradise]

lol

oh no very much on track.

and if this is, thermal fluctuations are generated by this friction, but in further more separated distant planets, amongst matter that would be thicker and more still they spin slower, but they will spin faster over time as this friction slowly evaporates the gasses and debris that make up such a great part of its surrounding layers.

eventually, once the planet has reached a point of lesser friction it implodes and, a star is born creating new elements in the im/explosion and less friction by allotting for expansion of matter for the other plants to experience resistance from.

 

[Biovail]

Woah, you sort of lost me.. Where does friction come into play here? Friction is only a result of one of the fundamental forces (the weak force I believe) at work between atoms. I was talking about the presence of mass itself bending space-time in some way, possibly distorting (or even causing) what we observe as the passage of time. If you had just one atom, it's mass would still bend space-time (albeit on a very small scale), but there could be no friction.

 

[panic in paradise]

There must be friction, friction is the medium/mediator of an action and reaction, friction the sought after cause. Many believe a single source God being created everything in order to have physical sensation, fision and chaos, with out friction im not sure if the the wind would blow.

Maybe fire is a plasma that accelerates the air particles around it by casing friction raising the temperature.

It can not be forgotten that nothing is solid, only nothing is solidified everything else, us, something is only bound by the communication of our cells to be aware of each others presence...with a better understanding of our cells we can do a lot for ourselves.




Edit:
The friction is possible because "space" also has a density the planets are restng in, thought I had made this more clear.

 

[-=SS=-]

Going to seriously annoy some people with this:

Spacetime, as elucidated by Einstein, is wrong. Infact it is just another one of these completely illogical fantasy creations that everyone believes in that just makes no sense what so ever, except mathematically. Mass is a function and not inherently something in itself, something they are trying to prove as real in the LHC (Higgs Boson). Also there is no such thing as solid, no such thing as spherical packets of matter/mass.. all matter is 3D standing wave patterns generated in an ether/space. Pi and other transcendental numbers are connected to ratio/geometry which is the framework from which all physical laws arise, reality exists by differentiating itself againt itself ("god" revealing itself to itself) and ratio is the way it does this. Harmonic theory also shows this quite nicely.

In truth there is no distance, it's all arising out of the same indivisible foundation. Every thing is connected to every other thing because all things are arising from the same foundation. Cosmic ^_^

 

[panic in paradise]

Going to seriously annoy some people with this:

Spacetime, as elucidated by Einstein, is wrong. Infact it is just another one of these completely illogical fantasy creations that everyone believes in that just makes no sense what so ever, except mathematically. Mass is a function and not inherently something in itself, something they are trying to prove as real in the LHC (Higgs Boson). Also there is no such thing as solid, no such thing as spherical packets of matter/mass.. all matter is 3D standing wave patterns generated in an ether/space. Pi and other transcendental numbers are connected to ratio/geometry which is the framework from which all physical laws arise, reality exists by differentiating itself againt itself ("god" revealing itself to itself) and ratio is the way it does this. Harmonic theory also shows this quite nicely.

In truth there is no distance, it's all arising out of the same indivisible foundation. Every thing is connected to every other thing because all things are arising from the same foundation. Cosmic ^_^

I cant be positive about Einstines or anyones space time theorem, and believe distance and size are relative but now, as a direct extension of god here to experience life in the most harmonious way, dahrma karma and regeneration possibly come into effect.

We are to experience and not harm ourselves harming each other. Regeneration is a means of purification, coming to be, oneness.

 

[panic in paradise]

heh e

A human being is part of the whole called by us “universe,” a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty…. We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive.
-Albert Einstein

Every day, think as you wake up, today I am fortunate to have woken up, I am alive, I have a precious human life. I am not going to waste it, I am going to use all my energies to develop myself to expand my heart out to others, to achieve enlightenment for the benefit of all beings. I am going to have kind thoughts toward others. I am not going to get angry or think badly about others. I am going to benefit others as much as I can.
-His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama

 

[Biovail]

Going to seriously annoy some people with this:

Spacetime, as elucidated by Einstein, is wrong. Infact it is just another one of these completely illogical fantasy creations that everyone believes in that just makes no sense what so ever, except mathematically. Mass is a function and not inherently something in itself, something they are trying to prove as real in the LHC (Higgs Boson). Also there is no such thing as solid, no such thing as spherical packets of matter/mass.. all matter is 3D standing wave patterns generated in an ether/space. Pi and other transcendental numbers are connected to ratio/geometry which is the framework from which all physical laws arise, reality exists by differentiating itself againt itself ("god" revealing itself to itself) and ratio is the way it does this. Harmonic theory also shows this quite nicely.

In truth there is no distance, it's all arising out of the same indivisible foundation. Every thing is connected to every other thing because all things are arising from the same foundation. Cosmic ^_^

I really think the theory I was working with was far more interesting..

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but you seem pretty sure of all this. Where do you get your information from? You say matter is 3D wave standing wave patterns.. Well what generates those?

 

[Foreigner]

All I can add to this thread is that if you develop your right brain and learn to quiet your left brain, you'll intuitively arrive at the answers to your questions about space and time without having to do any studying.

The answer lies in Oneness, not mathematics. You think you're separate from the car but you're not. Ego makes you think you're unique and special, but really it's not the Universe + 1(you), it's just the Universe. The way the brain works is that it takes raw data from the senses, makes a facsimile based on that data, and then projects the experience within itself, which it then experiences. You are not objectively experiencing the cars, you are experiencing what your organic brain is projecting the cars to be. You are only experiencing you.

The second part to this is... there is no "you" having the experience. You were taught that you are a you, that you have a name, that you are this persona, and you lived your life with layer upon layer of input that re-affirms your myth of self. You refer to it as "I" without any inquiry as to whether or not that "I" is actually there. So when you say "I was sitting on a hill watching cars". There was no I, and there were no cars. Thus there is no distance between you to. It's all the Universe doing itself. Your frames of reference are moot.

So in the absence of both of those, what is actually happening? It's Emptiness observing Emptiness. The distance is a projection, just as the car is, and just as you are.

It's late and I need sleep, so I'm not explaining this well. But no, I am not high or crazy. All you have to do is consult the Buddhist notion of Emptiness, sit with that, and eventually it will make sense. It has a logical explanation that maybe I'm not putting across very well, but ultimately it's not the logical left-brain that will get it. The logical left brain lives in the illusion of separation. The right brain understands that there is no separation between anything.

 

[malakaix]

So in the absence of both of those, what is actually happening? It's Emptiness observing Emptiness. The distance is a projection, just as the car is, and just as you are.

Well said.. i've been wondering how to respond to this thread and your post more or less summed up my thoughts.

 

[-=SS=-]

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but you seem pretty sure of all this. Where do you get your information from? You say matter is 3D wave standing wave patterns.. Well what generates those?

spaceandmotion.com is a very useful website for understanding standing wave patterns in matter

 

[panic in paradise]

... we have merely bumped a bergie.

Our souls add to our universes substance, and the substance of each universe eventually adds the source / spirit.

 

[whippa craka]

I didn't mean pi as anything special, I meant any sort of constant - an electron is the same wherever you go in the universe, observes the same physical laws even if they are on the other sides of the universe, with nothing connecting them.

What about a different set of laws? Other areas of the universe, beyond our horizon in this galaxy and the surrounding ones where laws of physics as we know it is different, or at least variable in a way we cannot yet understand. I wouldn't make a statement like that.

We have numbers to try and define constants, but I do not think there truly can be any constant in the universe. If there was, there would be an answer to all of this, and there isn't yet. Hense infinity. Can something truly be infinite? But can there also be an actual limit on all things in the universe? Either has its consequences.

 

[Biovail]

All I can add to this thread is that if you develop your right brain and learn to quiet your left brain, you'll intuitively arrive at the answers to your questions about space and time without having to do any studying.

The answer lies in Oneness, not mathematics. You think you're separate from the car but you're not. Ego makes you think you're unique and special, but really it's not the Universe + 1(you), it's just the Universe. The way the brain works is that it takes raw data from the senses, makes a facsimile based on that data, and then projects the experience within itself, which it then experiences. You are not objectively experiencing the cars, you are experiencing what your organic brain is projecting the cars to be. You are only experiencing you.

The second part to this is... there is no "you" having the experience. You were taught that you are a you, that you have a name, that you are this persona, and you lived your life with layer upon layer of input that re-affirms your myth of self. You refer to it as "I" without any inquiry as to whether or not that "I" is actually there. So when you say "I was sitting on a hill watching cars". There was no I, and there were no cars. Thus there is no distance between you to. It's all the Universe doing itself. Your frames of reference are moot.

So in the absence of both of those, what is actually happening? It's Emptiness observing Emptiness. The distance is a projection, just as the car is, and just as you are.

It's late and I need sleep, so I'm not explaining this well. But no, I am not high or crazy. All you have to do is consult the Buddhist notion of Emptiness, sit with that, and eventually it will make sense. It has a logical explanation that maybe I'm not putting across very well, but ultimately it's not the logical left-brain that will get it. The logical left brain lives in the illusion of separation. The right brain understands that there is no separation between anything.

Well yes, I understand this. But even as the rock and the car are two parts of the universe, they are not the same part. If I, the observer, was not present, those two parts would still exist. And between them is something infinitely vast, yet quantifiable by human measures. "Car" and "self" might be human constructs, and earth, car, self, and everything else might all be one. But the materials that they are composed of, be it atoms, protons, standing wave forms still exist as only parts of that universe, and are not infinitely close to each other.

You can't just look at everything and say it's all part of the same universe so no other discussion is relevant.

What about a different set of laws? Other areas of the universe, beyond our horizon in this galaxy and the surrounding ones where laws of physics as we know it is different, or at least variable in a way we cannot yet understand. I wouldn't make a statement like that.

We have numbers to try and define constants, but I do not think there truly can be any constant in the universe. If there was, there would be an answer to all of this, and there isn't yet. Hense infinity. Can something truly be infinite? But can there also be an actual limit on all things in the universe? Either has its consequences.

If you want to see infinity, look around you. There is an infinite number of infinitely small "locations" between where you are and where you wish to be. As far as anything being finite, I could say I have a finite number of apples in my basket, or there is a finite number of iron atoms in my computer, but I think that would have missed your point. We can't observe the entire universe, so we can't really show anything to be finite. I'd like to believe there is a finite amount of matter (for lack of better word) in the universe as well as finite energy, but outside of mathematics there is no way to show this.