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Heroin IV Issues & Questions

birdaah

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
2
Many hours have been spent researching information on the topic before this post. Please do not discredit this fact. While some concerns have been discussed, there are still concerns regarding this situation.

Briefly, this user is relatively new to IV use of opiates but was introduced by experienced users and combined with the research done, he feels confident with his methods. For the most part, that is.

The main issue recently has been dealing with the identification of arteries vs veins. Now while the most common injection sites are being used, the user wants to try and practice proper rotation of sites and what not. In doing so, he has ran into a few concerns with his choice of locations. Also, because of this, he is having some difficulty in differentiating between what it looks like to register in a vein and an artery. Despite numerous hours of reading and studying diagrams, pictures and posts, there is still a certain level of insecurity.

While using the top of his hand, he has found some areas that produce no problems and others that do. For instance, on the right hand towards the bottom where the wrist connects there is one site that seems fine. However if he moves up the hand towards the knuckles, there is a Y shaped "vein" that feels unpleasant but not unbearable like when missing. Again, towards the bottom on the outside of the limb where the hand and wrist meet just above the bone that sticks out slightly is another area that is sometimes unpleasant. Now tonight, while using the underside of the forearm, he registered, began to inject and started to feel this unpleasant feeling for the first time at this site. Unconvinced that these are arteries, he still uses these sites from time to time. There is concern that they could be arteries, however. He knows that arteries have a pulse (not detected in the hand locations), produce bright blood (not the case) and have high pressure behind them. How much pressure exactly are we talking about? The plunger does not move back on its own, only when pulled on. The blood will flow into the rig usually following the top, maybe half way back into the dose? He really wishes there was a video showing the difference, something he has been unable to locate thus far.

The next issue has to deal with using the inner elbow crook (probably the most recognized site). If he holds out his right arm to prepare, there is the main vein that is right in the middle of the crook which runs from the inside to the outside. Now if he moves just to the left (inside the body), there is another major vein which comes up from the middle of the forearm towards the inside and up the arm. If he is using the inner most location, he can feel a pulse that runs from the crook up the arm. Isn't this the basilic artery? Here is the kicker: the user takes his rig and aligns it so it runs parallel to the arm and injects then registers. The blood is dark and has little pressure. So he proceeds. The unpleasant feeling from the hands is not felt. He has become rather confused because of this situation. The elbow site is his favorite almost because it is a guarantee every time. But when rotating, he has concerns. Is it possible to hit an artery and not have any complications? He knows from reading that people say hitting an artery causes extreme swelling, burning, bleeding, etc.

Without dragging on any longer, hopefully the post is understandable and not too lengthy. Any input/advice/etc. is appreciated.
 
First, it's so much easier to read when people don't talk in the third person. We all know it's you, and talking in the third person or using swim doesn't protect you at all in any legal sense.

Anyways, have you checked out the IV megathread? It has a lot of good info and diagrams regarding distinguishing between veins and arteries, and all that good stuff I honestly don't know much at all about...

[ramble]...I only shot the shit for a couple weeks, only a couple times. Way to much of a pain in the ass for me, in my opinion, to make the rush, wonderful as it is, or the highest of BAs worth all the possible complications brought along by the needle. [/rant]
 
If you are new to IV, switch between the the big veins on the insides of your elbows on both arms. There are also other veins that sort of run parallel next to these popular ones, that are easy to hit as well. While rotation is healthy, you can still do so without having to resort to your hands. The reason you are experiencing pain is because for one, there is hardly any fatty tissue around the wrist/hand, so even piercing the flesh hurts.

Also, the veins towards the bottom of your arm/hands, tend to be flatter and less tubelike than those further up. You have to consider this, and if you insist on injecting in such spots, use a 30-31 gauge needle.
 
Crook of elbos, cephalic( few inches under the base of thumb), I use the one that goes diagnal across my forearm.

If you rotate your injection sites, as many as possible, and never ever reuse a pin even if you missed the vein on the first try to register, your veins will last a while. Once you start using a pin like 3+ times you are tearing/poking through the skin instead of a clean puncture. Not only is t much harder on your veins, causes scarring and more swelling, you can have more trouble registering because instead of poking into a vein it pushes it aside.

Theres a great pic poeple post that shows how quickly the tip of a needle dulls. And it is so true. I cringe when I hear someone say 'ive been using the same pin for months'

Also with IVing, the closer to your heart the spot the better. I avoid anythign below the waste. Really the crooks of elbos are like designed for dope lol.
 
Goto your local exchange and ask them there. Catch them when theyre slow, I'm sure they'd be willing to show you proper technique. They usually have pamphlets showing all the major veins to inject in, rated by health risk.

You know when it's an artery. Feels like someone dropped boiling water on your hand. It's bright red too. I've never had it move the plunger. Just give it a test push if unsure. If it swells or burns... it's an artery.

Yes, it's posible to have no complications. I've done it a couple times. But it's possible to have them too.
Find a book/site that lists the vein/artery locations ((It's a shame google body is gone, that was awesome for finding veins. )Honestly, once you learn where the veins are, it becomes much harder to hit an artery. I have done it about 3 or 4 times in over 6 years of IV use.

Practice Tips:
Practice with water a few times so you dont waste your real dope. Don't be dehydrated and exercise before hand. Don't forget to wipe w/ alcohol first. It numbs the pain a little, prevents infections, and even can help veins stick up more. And pinch, don't slap.
 
Here is the pic Swain mentioned:

2328527271_5e2fd3f25e.jpg


Second time I've posted that tonight ;)

Re: arteries and veins - spend some time feeling vessels you know to be a vein, and ones you know to be an artery (eg radial artery at your wrist). Veins are compressible, slightly bouncy and non-pulsatile. Arteries have a pulse and in general aren't compressible/bouncy in the way veins are. Take a look at a picture of the arterial and venous supply for an idea where to look, but remember that individuals can vary.

You should always be able to tell if a vessel is an artery or a vein beforehand if you are careful, but if you do inject into an artery it tends to hurt a lot more, the blood will usualy enter your syringe with more force, and the blood can appear brighter although this is unreliable. If you suspect you have hit an artery, stop injecting, remove the needle and apply firm pressure. There is a high risk of complications so it is important to get it checked out by a doctor ASAP to assess blood flow and check for complications.

It doesn't sound like you are hitting an artery in your forearm from what you say, although it is difficult to say over the internet! However, if it feels at all uncomfortable I would use another site, and practice identifying the different vessels so you know for sure you are in a vein every time.

IV complications megathread :)
 
I would never reuse a rig. I am so anal about that shit that if for some reason I couldn't hit a vein, I would replace the luer lock needletip every time I'd attempt to hit it again.
 
You've obviously never lived in a state that bans the sale at pharmacys & online sales and doesn't allow needle exchanges...
Seriously, to get a new one I had to drive an hour to Philly exchange (open 2 hours/day). Or drive to NYC.
Philly was closer but NYC allowed purchases at drug stores (only 10 at a time) so I could go on my day off.
My choices were
A. leave work early to get to Philly and risk getting fired. ($6 tolls and 6 gallons gas)
B. Drive 2.5 hours each way to NY ($10 tolls plus 9 gallons gas)
C. Buy a used one for $5 from a diabetic (was the going rate),
or D. Reuse or share.
 
Haha, ok you caught me. No, in all seriousness I wasn't sure if the rules here required the use of SWIM/SWIY or whatever. I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies. Unfortunately, I don't believe my state/city have exchanges. Acquiring new rigs is not an issue though. We can go to our local grocery where they have a pharmacy and ask for needles. I will only use a rig twice and then it gets thrown away. The reason for this is because on the first use, I may actually be inserting it more than once if i don't find a vein. So in my head, it really gets used more than once on the first use anyway and a second run should be no different.

The feeling i'm getting is not from using a dull needle, it is when i actually register my shot and begin to inject. It is a slight burning sensation, like comes with a using tar sometimes. My main issue is knowing the difference between registering in an artery and a vein. i have looked over the megathreads and stickies numerous times, looked at a dozen or more diagrams, etc. I do my best to read and search before posting. That's why i asked if it is possible to use an artery without any complication (pain, bleeding, etc).
 
So To reiterate:
If the color is bright red, flow is stronger or if your hand swells/burns then might be an artery. If youre in a vein, it should NOT burn at all.

Yeah, it's posible to hit an artery without an(imminent) complication. But, it's more possible that abscess will form, increasing in likelihood w/ every shot. I have done arterial shots where my hand swelled, then unswelled w/ no problems. But, I've also given my self some NASTY abcesses too.

Study the location of where veins are. Here's two good images showing what is where

Gray573.png
228px-Gray574.png
Also, check. http://www.innerbody.com/image/cardov.html
BTW:
All states have exchanges, but it could be quite a distance depending on county ordinances. But, check social services, or human services w/ your county. You'd be surprised how many places have them, but don't advertise it. And why pay, when you can get free works and injection prep materials.
 
You've obviously never lived in a state that bans the sale at pharmacys & online sales and doesn't allow needle exchanges...
Seriously, to get a new one I had to drive an hour to Philly exchange (open 2 hours/day). Or drive to NYC.
Philly was closer but NYC allowed purchases at drug stores (only 10 at a time) so I could go on my day off.
My choices were
A. leave work early to get to Philly and risk getting fired. ($6 tolls and 6 gallons gas)
B. Drive 2.5 hours each way to NY ($10 tolls plus 9 gallons gas)
C. Buy a used one for $5 from a diabetic (was the going rate),
or D. Reuse or share.
'

NJ does allow syringe exhanges.. not sure where you got that impression. Unless maybe you don't live in NJ adn your location is wrong?

There is an exhange in Atlantic City.. how come you don't go there??
Atlantic City — South Jersey AIDS Alliance, Oasis Drop-In Center, 32 South Tennessee Avenue. Tuesday and Thursday 10:00 am – 2:00 pm. Wednesday 3:30 pm – 5:30 pm. (Monday – Friday 9:00 am – 3:00 pm by request)
Contact: Therese or Bruno 609-345-0278

If that doesn't work and you have to drive far for an exhange, just make a trip of it, cop some dope and shit, ask for a box of 100 because of how far ytou drive..they will hav eno prob giving it to you. I would check out the drop in center..they willk def have a syringe exchange program.

Share? Disgusting man seriously that is so dangerous
 
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Lazyjoe pretty much hit it spot on..if you can't tell if you're in an artery or a vein using that as a guide, you really have no business shooting up. I used for a decade, having to try all different sites after collapsing veins and I rarely had a problem with accidentally fixing in an artery or not knowing the difference. It's pretty obvious, especially when your used to what the blood looks like, and how it feels when your in a vein. It's way different, and if I don't figure it out right when I stick the rig in, I see it when bright thin blood comes shooting into the barrel, hah. Vein blood is thick and dark. So, read lazyjoe's post again, follow those guidelines and thats about it. I really never heard anyone make such a big deal about it before.

Good luck.
 
@swain. Yeah, now they do. 5 years ago it was a whole different story. Had a party when the law FINALLY passed. I was practically the first person to visit that exchange when it opened. I used to live 500 feet from there, and its right behind the methadone clinic. Those hours are old. They're open 8-3 M-F and have nurses on staff for hep/hiv tests, CPR training, and IV complications help. It's actually really nice. Every other exchange Ive been to was just a mobile RV parked in the hood.

And when sharing, you bleach and peroxide (gets hep c) the needles out first. Tears your veins up tho, cause those things dull quick. I think I used a 25ga for a couple days straight once.

Recently, we finally just passed a law to have them sold w/o a script in a pharmacy (Deleware is only state left now). However, you're limited to 10 at a time. Goes into effect in 4 months. The limit sucks, and you have to show id, and have it logged in, but it's a step forward. That'll be nice for people not close to one of the exchanges, or for after hours.

EDIT: @OP I was just thinking, you might be in the vein when you register, but by the time you push, the needles not in. Or you're only partly in. Is there any lumping near the injection site when you push and it burns?
 
@swain. Yeah, now they do. 5 years ago it was a whole different story. Had a party when the law FINALLY passed. I was practically the first person to visit that exchange when it opened. I used to live 500 feet from there, and its right behind the methadone clinic. Those hours are old. They're open 8-3 M-F and have nurses on staff for hep/hiv tests, CPR training, and IV complications help. It's actually really nice. Every other exchange Ive been to was just a mobile RV parked in the hood.

And when sharing, you bleach and peroxide (gets hep c) the needles out first. Tears your veins up tho, cause those things dull quick. I think I used a 25ga for a couple days straight once.

Recently, we finally just passed a law to have them sold w/o a script in a pharmacy (Deleware is only state left now). However, you're limited to 10 at a time. Goes into effect in 4 months. The limit sucks, and you have to show id, and have it logged in, but it's a step forward. That'll be nice for people not close to one of the exchanges, or for after hours.

EDIT: @OP I was just thinking, you might be in the vein when you register, but by the time you push, the needles not in. Or you're only partly in. Is there any lumping near the injection site when you push and it burns?

That is banging that NJ passed that law. I had read about some legislation and shit but I never actually got a date when it would happen.

Can I ask where you heard 4 months? I am psyched as fuck to be able to buy 10-packs in JC
 
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