Bupe Addiction to Bupe Please Give me some Advice

[paperchaser]

So I had a surgery on February 23rd... for this I had to be clean so for the entire 21 days I was clean of all opiates.. man was it a bitch... anyways so I had the surgery and of course while in the hospital I was on IV 2mg dilaudid shots every 3 hours for pain... when I got out I was prescribed 20mg Hydrocodone every 3 hours for pain... I would take around 80-100mg hydrocodone every day until February 28th... so for about a week... at the week mark I went back on to Suboxone... I started out taking 3mg IV and then waiting 3 days until my next shot... this worked until a few days ago... I hit my third day off last Tuesday and had to dose wednesday... I woke up thursday morning feeling awful so I took another shot thursday... thursday was 2mg.... now today is friday and I took 1.5mg IV... what should I do? It seems I can't stop... even though I was off for 3 weeks it was horrible... awful mood swings... psychologically obsessing about it every second... I want to be off. With all my might I want to be off of this stuff... I agree suboxone is a life saver... I am not in prison... because of suboxone... I am not a piece of shit stealing and being a heroin addict doing what heroin addicts do thanks to suboxone... I have read taper methods but if someone anyone can kind of give me a play by play of how I should do this... I'm not asking for an essay just a simple breakdown... man would I appreciate it.... like Mr. Capt H I have looked forward so much to a bupe free life... and for years I haven't quit trying... I do the meetings and sponsor stuff.. I pray... I've seen counselors and whatever... I'm willing to give anything a shot... if someone told me to eat a bag of rotten lettuce everyday because it would keep me clean off opiates... ALL OPIATES... damnit I would do it... from addict to addict I appreciate any input... this struggle is the toughest I've ever gone through... anyone with experience thank you for your input.
~Young and Restless~
-Paperchaser

 

[tricomb]

It's good to know your not alone. Finding support from those who understand who you are and where your coming from made a profound impact on my life.

And, well, it may sound lame but you have got to replace all the bad habits with good ones like diet and exercise. When I'm stressing about eating healthily and making sure I work out it really does take focus off drugs.

It's hard not to think about opiates being a pain patient and an addict

 

[Jabberwocky]

OP - please make your post into paragraphs so we can read it. It will make it waaaaaay easier to give you better feedback.

Honestly, it sounds like you need to work more closely with a doctor who specializes in addiction. It sounds like you need stability.

This is what you want, yes?

I have read taper methods but if someone anyone can kind of give me a play by play of how I should do this...

The first question, are you using it IV - is that how you want to taper. It might work better if you are able to first switch to sublingual, but this is by no mean necessary.

In your case, given how long you've struggled with this, I doubt a quick taper would work. Again, what you need is stability. And frankly, I would worry more about lowering the dose than the frequency of use.

OP, what kind of taper/methods have you tried that haven't worked? What mg dose are you starting with?

1. If you start with 1.5mg, and you can feel stable on this low dose, then start there. Keep at 1.5 for a minimum of three to four days.
2. Then, go down to 1mg. Stay at one a minimum of three to four days (although the longer the better imo).
3. Then, when that cycle is ready and you want to push ahead (the point being you shouldn't push ahead until you're stable at the current dose), drop to 0.75mg. Stay there for the same amount of time as you stayed at 1mg.
4. Then, go down to 0.5mg. Stay the same amount of time as you did 0.75mg.
5. Then, finally, when that's over and again YOU FEEL READY, move down to 0.25mg and stay there the same amount of time as you were at 0.5mg.
6. Then, once you're ready (read: Once you've stabilized at 0.25mg - then and only then), jump off to freedom!

How does that sound? It would work differently if you're starting at a different does.

What you want is steady consistency. Given what I could read of your history with opioids, what you don't need or want is quick shocks to your system.

Furthermore, and this is KEY, I highly doubt you will be successful (although it is possible) without a support network. NA, AA, doctors, therapists, family, friends, whatever you can muster, and the more the better, is necessary. At a minimum you'd want a formal support group (NA/AA, Smart Recovery, group therapy focused on addiction/opioid dependency) and a doctor (so you can get meds to help with the w/d after getting off 0.25mg, such as clonidine and neurontin) in order to ensure your success.

OP - maybe it would be better if you stayed on the suboxone a bit longer to stabilize shit in your life. You could get everything in order, and make some progress in AA or whatever or with your therapist before taking such a huge step. The more support you have, the more tools at your disposal, the more likely you are to succeed in your ultimate goal - being opioid free. Taking suboxone for a couple more months is a SMALL price to pay for being opioid free if that's what it take...

EDIT: sorry if I came off as being a dick. I was just in a really shitty mood and I used answering your post as a means of distraction. Hope it helps, and best of luck my friend. Despite all I've said, I know that if you put in the work and do what you have to do, you'll undoubtedly be able to attain your goals. Best of luck!!!!

 

[paperchaser]

It's good to know your not alone. Finding support from those who understand who you are and where your coming from made a profound impact on my life.

And, well, it may sound lame but you have got to replace all the bad habits with good ones like diet and exercise. When I'm stressing about eating healthily and making sure I work out it really does take focus off drugs.

It's hard not to think about opiates being a pain patient and an addict

I actually do workout about 2 to 3 times a week depending on how busy I am... I run my own business... and am disciplined and work hard. I diet regularly and the only time I really mess up on the whole lifting, working, working out deal is when I'm withdrawaling and feel like shit. I agree with you though. Perhaps going 4-5 times a week would be better for me... even if it's just to do some cardio... I agree it is difficult to not think about them being an addict.

 

[paperchaser]

OP - please make your post into paragraphs so we can read it. It will make it waaaaaay easier to give you better feedback.

Honestly, it sounds like you need to work more closely with a doctor who specializes in addiction. It sounds like you need stability.

This is what you want, yes?



The first question, are you using it IV - is that how you want to taper. It might work better if you are able to first switch to sublingual, but this is by no mean necessary.

In your case, given how long you've struggled with this, I doubt a quick taper would work. Again, what you need is stability. And frankly, I would worry more about lowering the dose than the frequency of use.

OP, what kind of taper/methods have you tried that haven't worked? What mg dose are you starting with?

1. If you start with 1.5mg, and you can feel stable on this low dose, then start there. Keep at 1.5 for a minimum of three to four days.
2. Then, go down to 1mg. Stay at one a minimum of three to four days (although the longer the better imo).
3. Then, when that cycle is ready and you want to push ahead (the point being you shouldn't push ahead until you're stable at the current dose), drop to 0.75mg. Stay there for the same amount of time as you stayed at 1mg.
4. Then, go down to 0.5mg. Stay the same amount of time as you did 0.75mg.
5. Then, finally, when that's over and again YOU FEEL READY, move down to 0.25mg and stay there the same amount of time as you were at 0.5mg.
6. Then, once you're ready (read: Once you've stabilized at 0.25mg - then and only then), jump off to freedom!

How does that sound? It would work differently if you're starting at a different does.

What you want is steady consistency. Given what I could read of your history with opioids, what you don't need or want is quick shocks to your system.

Furthermore, and this is KEY, I highly doubt you will be successful (although it is possible) without a support network. NA, AA, doctors, therapists, family, friends, whatever you can muster, and the more the better, is necessary. At a minimum you'd want a formal support group (NA/AA, Smart Recovery, group therapy focused on addiction/opioid dependency) and a doctor (so you can get meds to help with the w/d after getting off 0.25mg, such as clonidine and neurontin) in order to ensure your success.

OP - maybe it would be better if you stayed on the suboxone a bit longer to stabilize shit in your life. You could get everything in order, and make some progress in AA or whatever or with your therapist before taking such a huge step. The more support you have, the more tools at your disposal, the more likely you are to succeed in your ultimate goal - being opioid free. Taking suboxone for a couple more months is a SMALL price to pay for being opioid free if that's what it take...

EDIT: sorry if I came off as being a dick. I was just in a really shitty mood and I used answering your post as a means of distraction. Hope it helps, and best of luck my friend. Despite all I've said, I know that if you put in the work and do what you have to do, you'll undoubtedly be able to attain your goals. Best of luck!!!!

Hey bud, it's okay but you should have maybe asked those questions before assuming that I'm an idiot street junkie. I am working with one of the best addiction specialists in my town who has been recognized in the media as a top doctor in this area... he is helping me out. I do use suboxone IV... I have ran out of subs before my next prescription and it has taken a toll on me so I IV to make sure I don't run out... kind of a vicious circle I suppose. Why do you think switching to sublingual will help? Please explain. Keep in mind I was just clean for 3 weeks prior to the surgery but I had to be out of work to stay clean because the obsession and withdrawal symptoms simply kept me out of the place of mind that I needed to be to function and run a small business. I only just started using once a day again I was using once every 3 days.. I have a support network I have a sponsor attend 12 step meetings... I had a life coach and a therapist... I have a great network of friends and family that are supportive but this problem is a relentless one and if you've ever experienced it I'm sure you understand that. I have a slew of clonidine and other meds to help come off the Subs... actually getting off is the problem though. I don't want to stay on opiods any longer my friend... I'm so done with this bullshit. I want my life back... I don't want to be dependent on a pill or a film strip and don't want to have to be a slave any longer to this..I want to be free and I know that if I don't give up... eventually I will succeed. If you come off as a dick and don't edit before you post... I do it all the time I guess you're not really that sorry. Or you're just really lazy.. either way... I appreciate the post but again don't assume things you don't know... the last thing I want to read is you doubt I'm going to succeed... but I'd rather hear the truth then a lie I suppose so thats that. Do me a favor and don't answer my posts as a means of distraction though

 

[tricomb]

Yeah man, I went from working out 2 days a week to forcing myself to do 5. Cardio is great, if you have access to a pool, swimming is a great form of exercise. So is heavy, prolonged sexual activity, and my favorite form of exercise It's also rewarding, like drugs.

edit: good to see you have Clonidine it will help immensely. I would also recommend Ondasetron (Zofran) for the initial opiate-free stages. and I don't think toothpastedog meant any offense, he did edit his post.

 

[paperchaser]

Yeah man, I went from working out 2 days a week to forcing myself to do 5. Cardio is great, if you have access to a pool, swimming is a great form of exercise. So is heavy, prolonged sexual activity, and my favorite form of exercise It's also rewarding, like drugs.

edit: good to see you have Clonidine it will help immensely. I would also recommend Ondasetron (Zofran) for the initial opiate-free stages. and I don't think toothpastedog meant any offense, he did edit his post.

I'm not offended by him bro... I just have a big broom stick up my ass because I can't get off bupe. What is ondasetron is it OTC?

 

[tricomb]

No it's prescription anti-nausea med, but it has been shown to help a bit with opiate withdrawals. It's brand name is Zofran, if you can get it somehow it helps some of the physical WD.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'm not offended by him bro... I just have a big broom stick up my ass because I can't get off bupe.

Ahhhh, gotcha... Hope you're successful, regardless. Both with the broomstick and the bupe

 

[Missykins]

Hey bud, it's okay but you should have maybe asked those questions before assuming that I'm an idiot street junkie. I am working with one of the best addiction specialists in my town who has been recognized in the media as a top doctor in this area... he is helping me out. I do use suboxone IV... I have ran out of subs before my next prescription and it has taken a toll on me so I IV to make sure I don't run out... kind of a vicious circle I suppose. Why do you think switching to sublingual will help? Please explain. Keep in mind I was just clean for 3 weeks prior to the surgery but I had to be out of work to stay clean because the obsession and withdrawal symptoms simply kept me out of the place of mind that I needed to be to function and run a small business. I only just started using once a day again I was using once every 3 days.. I have a support network I have a sponsor attend 12 step meetings... I had a life coach and a therapist... I have a great network of friends and family that are supportive but this problem is a relentless one and if you've ever experienced it I'm sure you understand that. I have a slew of clonidine and other meds to help come off the Subs... actually getting off is the problem though. I don't want to stay on opiods any longer my friend... I'm so done with this bullshit. I want my life back... I don't want to be dependent on a pill or a film strip and don't want to have to be a slave any longer to this..I want to be free and I know that if I don't give up... eventually I will succeed. If you come off as a dick and don't edit before you post... I do it all the time I guess you're not really that sorry. Or you're just really lazy.. either way... I appreciate the post but again don't assume things you don't know... the last thing I want to read is you doubt I'm going to succeed... but I'd rather hear the truth then a lie I suppose so thats that. Do me a favor and don't answer my posts as a means of distraction though

Show some respect for the "idiot street junkie" because, frankly, you're no different. You're shooting your Suboxone. I don't know who gave you that brilliant idea. Does your physician know that? Where are you getting your needles? Probably the same place as the idiot street junkie you speak so derisively of. Haven't you learned anything from NA and your sponsor? Also, do you tell your doctor, your sponsor, or your support network the truth or do you just bullshit them?

Maybe you need to go to rehab.

 

[paperchaser]

Show some respect for the "idiot street junkie" because, frankly, you're no different. You're shooting your Suboxone. I don't know who gave you that brilliant idea. Does your physician know that? Where are you getting your needles? Probably the same place as the idiot street junkie you speak so derisively of. Haven't you learned anything from NA and your sponsor? Also, do you tell your doctor, your sponsor, or your support network the truth or do you just bullshit them?

Maybe you need to go to rehab.

I have been on the street as a junkie. I am a little different however... with addiction your right there is very little difference I am dependent and thats that. However, from the time when I was a street junkie to the time now... I can tell you without a doubt there is a world of difference. My physician obviously doesn't know. I get my needles from the pharmacy. The same place I got them when I was a junkie and I didn't speak poorly of street junkies... I just said don't speak to me like one... what I was referring to was an otherwise healthy lifestyle if you'll call it that... my life is very seemingly awesome... except for this huge problem of being addicted to bupe I have learned a lot from NA and my sponsor... I'm going to guess you were on your period or something so I'll forgive you for attacking but don't assume I was insulting or attacking anyone because I wasn't. I tell my support network the truth... tapering is what I'm doing... I've been to rehab sweetheart... many times. I don't think it matters the place you get better... I have a life to live and a business to run and a wife to take care of... bills to pay... mouths to feed you know the whole bit... so I can't just drop anything and sit in a meeting for 28 days straight... I need help ... and I'm looking for it... and I won't give up... A quitter nevers wins, and a winner never quits

 

[piebald]

^whatever your doing now..double your efforts and buckle down cause it sucks. after i went off bupe it look a long time from my brain to start making those "happy chemicals" again. There is no short cut and it fucking sucks..

you say your "working with an addiction specialist,you have a life coach and a therapist..you go to meetings, you have a sponsor AND you have been to rehab"..sounds like common denominator in regards to your lack of success is you- i DONT mean that in an offensive way... but maybe there is something you are holding back-or not being honest about?? there is no painless way to do this and people here are offering you their honest advice, no one was speaking to you "like a street junkie". And MissyKins advice about inpatient rehab was an honest statement..if all those things didn't work for you you may have to up the ante. Best of luck "sweetheart" and please don't be so offensive^^

and id like to say one more thing: you have given us a laundry list of all the different programs and therapies you are/have been involved in that apparently arent working..MissyKins' statement about rehab was a LOGICAL one! saying things like "Im going to guess you were on your period" make you sound pathetic...

 

[Missykins]

I have been on the street as a junkie. I am a little different however... with addiction your right there is very little difference I am dependent and thats that. However, from the time when I was a street junkie to the time now... I can tell you without a doubt there is a world of difference. My physician obviously doesn't know. I get my needles from the pharmacy. The same place I got them when I was a junkie and I didn't speak poorly of street junkies... I just said don't speak to me like one... what I was referring to was an otherwise healthy lifestyle if you'll call it that... my life is very seemingly awesome... except for this huge problem of being addicted to bupe I have learned a lot from NA and my sponsor... I'm going to guess you were on your period or something so I'll forgive you for attacking but don't assume I was insulting or attacking anyone because I wasn't. I tell my support network the truth... tapering is what I'm doing... I've been to rehab sweetheart... many times. I don't think it matters the place you get better... I have a life to live and a business to run and a wife to take care of... bills to pay... mouths to feed you know the whole bit... so I can't just drop anything and sit in a meeting for 28 days straight... I need help ... and I'm looking for it... and I won't give up... A quitter nevers wins, and a winner never quits

I'm not your sweetheart. In fact, for all you know, I'm a man. Either way, the reference to menstruation doesn't apply.

You did speak poorly of junkies when you referred to them as "idiots." The trappings of middle-class existence don't make you any different from the addict copping on the street. You just get your drugs from your doctor, and you bullshit him to get them.

What exactly have you learned from NA and your sponsor? And what would you like to learn from us? Because what you're currently doing isn't working for you.

If your goal is to get off Suboxone, then tell your doctor the truth about how you've been using the medication and work with your doctor to taper off of it.

 

[romary1]

I am currently on suboxone and it has changed my life so that I don't have to obsess about how or if I will have the money to get my drugs. I have been to many meetings in my life, as I have been an addict for over 10 years (to opiates, along with everything else, in between). I started smoking pot at 12, coke at 16 and pills at about 21/22 yrs old. The opiates have been one of the hardest things to stop because of how physical and mental it is. I completely understand your wanting to not be dependent on ANYTHING, especially since from my experience that is what they pound into your head at meetings. However, for myself, I know that if I do not have something to help with the daily habit of taking something for over 10years that more then likely, I will be back on opiates eventually because it consumes my thoughts and I am so depressed for a long time, as someone else stated. Well, bottom line, for me I have come to accept that although it may not be the way AA/NA believes is the best way to maintain your sobriety since they believe you should put no mind/mood altering chemicals in your body. It has been what I know keeps me clean everyday. And it has taken time for me to be OK with the fact that if that is what I need to do for me, so that I do not end up back wasting time, money, effort and energy on the streets and can live a productive life, so be it. I know that I have been to meetings where they thing people shouldn't even be on there antidepressants and even though I thought I could live with out them for a long time, once I started taking them consistently and started feeling guilty because I was happy and then realized that I deserve to be and the medicine was helping me.....who are they to judge. I am not sure if the meetings or the people opinions have anything to do with your decision, but I do know how they made me feel and wanted to share my experience with you. I would suggest doing some real soul searching (if you already haven't) as to the real reason you want to stop. Also, I assume one of the reasons suboxone is made to be taken sub-lingual is so that it breaks the habit of how you did your drugs since the process of how you did it is part of the addiction to. Good Luck on whatever you decide.

 

[romary1]

The way you take your medicine??

I have read that if you shoot it, you get sick or die or who knows what........ What's up with that? and I have also been told it doesn't really break down to be drawn up in the needle......Just curious.

 

[piebald]

^ i know i have my reservations about NA as you and i have talked about on another thread but i will say this: i was immediately humbled by the stories and the people i met. Drug addiction is the great equalizer...and those "junkies" can speak more truth then "the best addiction specialist in the town who has been recognized by the media as a top doctor in the area" (yeah he said that).
I LOST my job and my marriage to drugs and this dude wont go to rehab BECAUSE he has "a marriage" and "a job" well..that circular thinking wont get him to far.
cast not thy pearls before swine...im done here

 

[paperchaser]

^ i know i have my reservations about NA as you and i have talked about on another thread but i will say this: i was immediately humbled by the stories and the people i met. Drug addiction is the great equalizer...and those "junkies" can speak more truth then "the best addiction specialist in the town who has been recognized by the media as a top doctor in the area" (yeah he said that).
I LOST my job and my marriage to drugs and this dude wont go to rehab BECAUSE he has "a marriage" and "a job" well..that circular thinking wont get him to far.
cast not thy pearls before swine...im done here

What was the point of this post? I said I go to meetings have a sponsor and work the steps and also I go to a highly recognized professional. My point is I'm giving anything a shot... I have been to 3 rehabs and 2 half way houses. Really cool how you like to attack a fellow addict looking for help? What have you gotten out of meetings? Obviously not much douche bag.

 

[paperchaser]

I had 21 days off everything before my surgery.. the longest stretch I've had off everything was a year and a half... then I go back on because its either subs or dope... I'm an addict obviously I'm going to use something.... since the 21 days clean and the surgery I've been on subs for consistently only 22 days long after being 21 days clean... if I can do a 2 week taper or whatever what ido I need to do I'm SICK or living this way.

 

[paperchaser]

I'm not your sweetheart. In fact, for all you know, I'm a man. Either way, the reference to menstruation doesn't apply.

You did speak poorly of junkies when you referred to them as "idiots." The trappings of middle-class existence don't make you any different from the addict copping on the street. You just get your drugs from your doctor, and you bullshit him to get them.

What exactly have you learned from NA and your sponsor? And what would you like to learn from us? Because what you're currently doing isn't working for you.

If your goal is to get off Suboxone, then tell your doctor the truth about how you've been using the medication and work with your doctor to taper off of it.

Obviously the doctor would probably refer me to a detox and get a kick back for it... no I wasn't talking bad about street junkies... you aren't helping solve the problem so go away... go cause drama somewhere else...

 

[paperchaser]

I have read that if you shoot it, you get sick or die or who knows what........ What's up with that? and I have also been told it doesn't really break down to be drawn up in the needle......Just curious.

Cpt Heroins Micron Filtering Megathread will answer your questions my friend.