Stay together for the kids!!!

[psychoblast]

I was the product of a broken home. Not really bad, but the kind of broken home that people think is pretty good. Parents still got along, spent every other weekend with the father, etc. However, it still really fucked me up.

In retrospect, it was an incredibly selfish thing my mother did in deciding she wanted to find her true love and thereby deprive me of growing up in the same household with my very own father, who I truly loved. A child has an intense desire to live with his/her parents, BOTH parents, and for parents to destroy that for the sake of some personal ambition that they feel unfulfilled is really fucked up.

It is also misguided. I married a girl I was not dating but got pregnant. We had a lot of bad fights, but I knew holding a family unit together mattered more than anything to me, so I did what it took to keep us together. After some years of fighting and misunderstandings and some therapy, and basically being resigned to live without love because I had "settled", but was willing to do it for the sake of the kids, a strange thing happened.

One day, instead of falling into our usual post-work routine of eating dinner watching TV after the kids went to bed, something brought up a memory from my past, the loss of a pet. I related it and started crying. She held me. It brought us closer. After that, nothing obvious changed, but we started talking more and more about important incidents from our past, things we barely remembers ourselves until our memories were jogged. And the more we understood the other person, the more we grew to love them. I grew to appreciate that she and I have core values that are very similar, which is how we first started dating in the first place.

Now we have been together for five years and I can say honestly that she is the love of my life and we will be together forever. What we have is very deep, but I can see it is actually getting deeper each passing year. Now, we actually find a lot of tv and movies boring and two dimensional compared to talking to one another. We are now more social with others, we are dusting off old hobbies and passions we had abandoned. We have been in a honeymoon phase for the last 6 months and it seems to just keep getting better.

I'm here to say that Hollywood has sold us on false view of love, that it is love at first sight and it blows you away and you never come down, and if you do come down from that high place of love, it means you were not with the right person and you need to keep looking. NOT TRUE. When you first meet some one, you notice superficial indicators of their values, based on how they dress, wear their hair, etc., and if those indicators reflect things you value, there is a spark, an attraction, maybe full blown love, but it is based on superficialities. You are shot out of cannon into the air, but you WILL come down, because that is what happens. The way to avoid a massive crash is, while flying through the air, you really get to know the other person DEEPLY, not superficially, and if you can make THAT connection, it gives you wings and you can stay aloft. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower, but you right out the low times and you will have more high times ahead. You do NOT give up and say, "It was not meant to be." Fuck that. There is no MEANT TO BE. There is only choosing to know the other person deeply or choosing not to go deep. If you choose not to go deep, you will NEVER find true love. If you DO choose to go deep, you can find a soul mate in pretty much anyone on the planet so long as you are honest, communicative and patient.

The key factor is really timing, not who you are with but WHEN you are with them. Because if you are at a stage when you are ready to go deep, but the other person is not, you can't find that deeper love. It takes two people to be honest, communicative and patient to find it, to create it, to fine tune their personal frequencies into a single harmonious tone. I have a number of ex-es I am pretty sure could have been my soul mates had I been willing to go deep back then. Maybe it would have been an easier ride than what I wound up with, because maybe we started out more in sync. But that's all water under the bridge.

Anyway, that is all a precursor to my view that if you are committed to the family, to the health and happiness of your children, to not fucking them up and causing them pain which in turn will do yourself damage (a guilty heart knows no peace), then you do NOT get a divorce if you have kids. Whatever you think YOU SELFISHLY need that is worth more than your kids needing both parents together, YOU ARE WRONG.

Even if one parent is physically abusive, drug addict, etc., there are treatment programs, therapies. You can take yourself temporarily away from that person for the safety of your kids or yourself, but it must always be with the promise of reunification when the other person gets better, because they are sick, and you don't give up on sick people. My wife was pretty abusive at times in our marriage and I stuck it out and came out the other side and it was worth it.

At this point, my wife and kids and myself have been together longer than my mother and father held together their family, so this is all new ground to me, I don't know what a single family unit like this is supposed to look like with both parents in the house. But it is magical. And I just wonder what the hell my parents think when they come visit and see the paradise we have created that they never knew because they gave up when the going got tough. I pity them very much.

I will say my wife's parents stayed together their whole lives, but slipped into a loveless partnership without communication, and that was not good either. Maybe still better than divorce, but geez, its sad to think they gave up when they could have had something so much better if only they had not stopped communicating, if only they had not decided at some point that further communication would only drive them apart. I think the FEAR OF DIVORCE keeps some couples from communicating because their afraid they might disagree on such deep and important values that they have no choice but to divorce. That is a false fear because it starts out with the premise that divorce is an option. If you are truly committed to the other person and you both deeply commit that divorce is NOT an option, then the fear goes away because you can tell the other person ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING and as much as they might disagree and not like it, THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. Then you work through those disagreements and SUPRISE!! turns out there is ALWAYS common ground at the other end of what seemed to be an impossible impasse. This has happened for my wife time and again, to get where we are now. Divorce seemed a certainty and we just kept talking and suddenly we were in sync again, we found a core shared truth that dwarfed what we had THOUGHT was an impossible disagreement in values.

I'm not saying stay together with whomever you are with no matter what. If you don't have kids with the other person, it's no big deal to split up and keep looking for the person you want to settle down with and EVOLVE INTO SOULMATES with. But once you have kids, you need to fucking resolve that that IS the person you are now PERMANENTLY COMMITTED to evolving into soul mates with, because it is that permanent committment, that core value to keep your family unit together, that paves the way for you to feel comfortable sharing your deepest shames and hidden secrets and values you otherwise fear might drive the other person away and wreck the relationship.

One last word on this... As noted, initial love and attraction is superficial and fading. It takes time, communication and honesty on deep issues to evolve into a deeper state of soul mates. Note that TIME IS A FACTOR. Now, five years into our marriage, I finally feel like I have a soul mate, sort of. It is a lot stronger feeling than I had a year go, or five years ago. I can now see quite clearly that this will be even STRONGER five years from now. I cannot wait to see what that is like. And 20 years from now? Forget about it, we'll be in friggin heaven. I know there will be rough patches, and you do not just sit back and bask in the love, love is an active process, you MAKE it stronger with more communication, more honestly, and seeking new ideas to bring into the marriage and share, because newness makes you both stretch and grow, and the more you grow, the more you grow TOGETHER, like two vines intertwining. If the vines are not growing, they don't intertwine more. That's why you have your hobbies and interests and be an active of life, to bring in the newness that is important to realize your relationship's full potential. But I digress. My point is, because time is a factor (it took us five years of fumbling just to really get on the first page of truly building a foundation of love), I look back and realize we will not get as close as we could have had we started sooner, or had we met younger. By waiting till I was nearly 40 to build a soulmate relationship, I have fundamentally limited how close we can get in this lifetime. I still think where we get will be amazing, it already is, but I also see value in starting younger. People are too picky. People have too many hang ups about what they need to find in the "one and only." People don't understand that ANYONE can be the one and only, and time is a critical factor in making that relationship as good as it can be, so the sooner you get started, the better.

So I'm here to encourage people to make STAYING TOGETHER FOREVER NO MATTER WHAT a core value when you seek some one to start a family with. I am basically a non-Christian who does not beileve in divorce, ever, because it is bad idea, you are giving up on something that never needs to be given up on, because the potential is there between any two people if you just did NOT give up on it, if giving up on finding it was just not an option. But, anyway, I'm mostly anti-divorce (or break up if you are unmarried) between parents. Then you are really giving up on the amazing thing that I have found, this single family unit. I think it is so great, I want everyone to experience it, so I thought I'd share.

To summarize: Core values to look for in mate:
1. Commitment to NEVER divorce or break up if you have kids, at least till they are 16 or older.
2. Commitment to absolute HONESTLY in communications even if you think your honestly will send the other person running for the hills.
3. Willingness to share your deepest shames and insecurities.

Nos. 2 and 3, above are a LOT easier if you are secure that the other person is NOT going anywhere. In todays society where divorce is so acceptable, I think a lot of people never go to Nos. 2 and 3 specifically because they keep secrets out of fear of divorce. The irony is that if they committed to no. 1, then no. 2 and 3 would be easier, and then they would find divorce was no longer needed or wanted. It it the stagnation of NOT having no. 2 and 3 that makes people give up and divorce.

Or at least, that how it seems to me.

~psychoblast~

 

[lola]

I'd really seriously consider qualifying what you're saying to exclude relationships where there is physical, emotional or psychological abuse.

 

[psychoblast]

lola:

No, that's just the problem. Humans are given up on one another too easily. The word "abuse" can mean almost anything. My wife said her father emotionally abused her one time when she was 12 because she was rebellious and he said she should be more like another girl, her own age, who was the daughter of a friend, who was less rebellious. Her father wanted her to conform to his wishes. Is that wrong? Maybe, but is it abusive? Is it psychological or emotional abuse that should have caused my wife's mother to divorce her father and take her away from him?

The words "emotional abuse" and "psychological abuse" are baggage. They drag us down. They make us VICTIMS IN OUR OWN MIND. Then, as long as you see yourself as a victim, you get a free pass on underachievement. "Oh, it's not my fault I'm not doing better in life, I was a victim of abuse." That kind of thinking is a SICKNESS.

Just like the abusers -- physical, emotional, even SEXUAL -- are themselves SICK. And sickness is meant to be CURED. A compassionate person or society does not abandon the sick just because their wound is disgusting. We should no more euthenize child molestors than amputees. A disgusting wound can be healed and the healed person can become beautiful and whole, scars and all. We are all lovable if we are given the chance. No one is past redemption.

Marriage = merge. You see the linguistic similarity? The similarity has meaning. It signifies a commonality. We are meant to MERGE into a higher being, a higher consciousness. That is the destiny of our whole species if we do not fuck it up. Marriage is a form of merger, two become one. A lot of people have lost sight of that spirtual and biological truth. When we merge, we CREATE a higher consciousness between ourselves, and we become a more useful tool for fulfilling our innate purpose.

The notiON of merging then separating, then merging then separating, like it's a game, is misguided because it leaves you not evolving to an even higher state of spiritual merger. Biologists may reflect on what the next evolutionary step may be for mankind, but what is the next evolutionary step for married-kind? I personally envision a some form of polyamorous unification that will seem very tribal at first (a few couples sharing love, raising kids together etc.) which will require we all work out some of our jealous issues, our deep-seated insecurities that force us to think we have to somehow be the "one and only" in order to have value, to have pride. However, I am unsure if this can occur in my lifetime, or at all if people keep being so resistant to honestly about how fucked up our current romantic priorities seem to be -- from both genders (the male harem fantasy, the female "I'm the only one he could ever want" fantasy).

~psychoblast~

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Ehh...it's kinda damned if you do, damned if you don't. Parents fuck up their kids....period. The damage is unintentional, most likely, and it's unavoidable. Why is 16 a better time to split than later or earlier?

You say humans give up on one another too easily, but they also put up with unfix-able situations for far too long as well. Who's to say who's right?

 

[K-Dazed]

Marriage = merge. You see the linguistic similarity? The similarity has meaning. It signifies a commonality. We are meant to MERGE into a higher being, a higher consciousness. That is the destiny of our whole species if we do not fuck it up. Marriage is a form of merger, two become one. A lot of people have lost sight of that spirtual and biological truth. When we merge, we CREATE a higher consciousness between ourselves, and we become a more useful tool for fulfilling our innate purpose.

"Merge" and "Marriage" may sound similar, but they're not derived from the same word. They have very different etymology.

Other than the nitpick, I thought it was an interesting read, but I thought it too idealistic for my taste. My parents never lived together, but I had wonderful relationships with both. I'd rather that then everyone in my household being pissed and arguing all the time. Do what makes you happy.

 

[Busty St Clare]

How do you explain the fuck ups from stable homes? When you are a kid your whole life revolves around a small number of people but saying your life would be better if your dad was around to hold your hand is pretty defeatest. Everyone wants to blame someone else and are never able to accept that the only person who you should look at is yourself. I have half siblings who are just as happy and successful as my other brothers and sisters who grew up with my own father.

It was the hardest decision ever to seperate from my children's mother. I could have take the easier emotional and financial option and stayed in a loveless cohabitation type marriage but I didn't. I didn't leave my kids, I parted from my wife. Are my kids fuck ups? Hardly. Sure there are times when we sit together all wish that we could see each other every morning when we wake up, but I give them more now than most dads who live under the same roof as their kids. The times I spend with my kids are all about them. A lot of my friends work so much that even if they are at home they hardly know anything about their children. My daughter may have had every reason to drop her head and make excuses but reality is she is Dux of her class, is amazingly gifted at swimming and gymnastics and has a solid group of family and friends who love her dearly. Perhaps she is an over achiever because she wants to please me, but that is better than being a fuck up because I don't care.

I give my kids everything and more. I have a genuine interest in their education and lives that most dads don't come close to providing. I also am able to finally show them how a loving, healthy relationship should be. They know how much I love my partner and for me teaching my children honesty is far more important than living a lie. They also know that I still love their mother but hopefully also appreciate that all our lives are better now than before. My kids may not live an the Bible perfect nuclear family but the one surrounding them is better than any kid with just a mum and dad. I would hate for my role models to be liers and miserable behind closed doors. My kids know that life is there to be lived and there will be times when you don't always get what you want. The selfish will make excuses and always wonder "what if?".

 

[lola]

OP, I'm very happy for you that you were lucky and that what was initially a loveless dysfunctional marriage turned into a happy ending.

Please bear in mind you're very much in the minority, and most people who feel this way early on in their relationship tend to grow apart, not closer.

Think about how you would have felt if instead of getting increasingly closer you would have got increasingly further apart, more resentful, hurt each other more, crush each other's self esteem, become distant physically, lose trust, stop communicating, argue constantly, undermine each other etc. etc. - more and more so as time went by. Try 20 years of that and tell me if it was worth it. We all need to be loved and nurtured to feel happy, and maybe you managed a few years but now you have it. You can't say for sure where your head would be if you things stayed negative for much longer; the level of misery and anguish and sadness and loneliness would have got to you eventually.

Basically, you two are compatible and didn't realise it for a while. Not every couple who end up have children is. Accept that you're quite lucky and this simply doesn't apply to most couples who are unhappily married, although I accept it could apply to some.

And do not belittle abuse in relationships, I've known it to lead to suicide and seen it lead to shattered lives and extreme self-destruction, also to mental breakdowns and children being taken away by social services - which is surely not in their best interest. Do not belittle the complete and utter destruction some people who are not compatible can cause to each other's souls. There are some really fucking damaged people out there who prey on vulnerable people and should not be in relationships with ANYONE, children or not. I've worked in secure psychiatric units with many survivors of such situations and people who killed their partners and can tell you it's all too real. Yes they need help but no, love can't heal all. In short, you might have a good point to make but don't go too far and think your solution works in every situation.

 

[psychoblast]

pontifex01:

I'm not blaming my parents, so your perceived contradiction in my post is your own error. I'm not angry at them for screwing me up. I don't consider myself particularly screwed up. What I guess I'm saying is that my PARENTS missed out on the blessing that is the intact, loving family unit. What my wife and I did was persevere past the time that most couple would call it quits -- we were on the brink many times, and it almost seemed inevitable based on how screwed up our beginning was, we were broken up till the day our first child was born and my now-wife "consented" to try making a family with me. Five years later and lots of broken dishes and shouting matches, we have found each other and our love. Because we did not give up. Because we did not stop communicating. There were phases when we could have given up, when it seemed hopeless, but now we both thank our lucky stars we did not, because through the trial by fire there is paradise on the other side. Coming to a full understanding of another human being without reservation or dishonesty causes a merger of souls that is a wondrous thing, and you cannot help but feel love. We are not there yet, not perfectly, perfection as in anything (music, etc.) is a goal you strive for but never reach, knowing that the striving is a good thing and takes you to a good place, a better place than standing still.

I guess I pity my parents for not having the cojones to stay together and make it work, to work at it, to solve the puzzle. Because two people trying to intertwine their lives together are like a very complex puzzle that just does not seem to fit in some places, and you can go mad thinking you are missing pieces or the manufacturer screwed up some of the pieces and it is hopeless and then suddenly another piece fits and you realize it is all there and you get a lot of pieces put together very fast and it is great. Then you hit another seeming-dead-end. THESE ARE NOT DEAD ENDS, THESE ARE TESTS. If you persevere, you will attain something magical. If you give up, you fail the test, you will never know what that puzzle would have looiked like when complete.

There is a biological, genetically ingrained sense of what a family is supposed to be. I'm not limiting it by race, creed, color or any of that, or even gender or numerosity (go polyamory! go homosexual marriage! go homosexual polyamorous marriage!) But when you separate from a person, you sunder that, you give up on it. Maybe it's not just marriage. Maybe it's all relationships. Maybe no one should be giving up on anyone else, as we are all in this together.

Fine, you don't have to do it, you don't have to want it. You can say you just want to live a life of plain sex and cheeseburgers and divorces and abortion clinics and you'll have some fun at the movies and on Superbowl Sunday, and that's good enough for you and that's all there is. If that is what you want to be true, maybe that will be your life. It'll probably be fine and fun. I'm just saying there is a magic universal love waiting to wash over everyone when enough of us say that is NOT enough and we DO want more, and dammit, why has my computer antivirus software upgraded itself every fucking day it seems like, but the institution of marriage has not been updated in 2000 years?

Everything must evolve or stagnate. That is the truism of life. What is marriage doing? Is it evolving? Is divorce a form of evolution? Is acceptance of divorce a way to promote the evolution of marriage? If so, is that the way we WANT marriage to evolve? Because we have a choice here, we can say fuck with life-mates, fuck with soulmates, lets evolve to have tempary relatioships of convenience. And we wont' get deep with each other and we will turn into little minds with little shallow lives. That is a bug-like evolutinoary path. I guess that's okay if that's where you want to end up. Me, I think I like a more tree-like or vine-like evolutionary path. But, then, I've smoked a lot of weed in my day. If I had to choose, I'd choose to have lifemates WITHOUT christian or other false-religious mumbo jumbo. I would have people stay married NOT because divorce is illegal but because it is UNWISE. I would have people not get abortions, not because it is illegal, but because it is UNWISE. I am a pro-choice advocate who thinks abortion is about the worst mistake a woman can make and I would try to talk you out of it if you give me half a chance. I am non-christian hedonist who thinks divorce should not be an option, not by law, but by choice, because when you say "till death do us part" and you MEAN IT TRULY then a magical merger happens.Not immediately, but over time, and unless you stay with it and realize it, you'll never know it, and that's too bad, you gave up before the race was over, you missed the party at the finish line, but maybe there's another party where you pulled off the road, or you can make it a party if you try, so I won't pity you too much.

And if anyone thinks the similarity between Marriage and Merge is coicidence, then I have clue for you: THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES.

You want to blow your mind? Mediate three times, paying attention to your breath and your tongue.

First outbreath, say "On" draw it out nice and slow.
Second outbreath say "Off" draw it out nice and slow.
Third outbreath say "Om" draw it out nice and slow.

Maybe that will teach you something about coincidence. Maybe not.

~psychoblast~

 

[Busty St Clare]

The Swedish word for marriage is äktenskap. Coincidence?

Or are we just talking about English speaking marriages here.

 

[Miss_vanilla]

I come from a family with parents who were abusive and violent towards each other, mainly but sometimes directed towards me and my siblings. It was a massive relief when they finally divorced. Life was far from perfect but at least I could bring friends home and get a good night's sleep (trying to do homework, do well at school, and sleep well when your parents are screaming at each other, drunk out of their minds until 2am doesn't really work). Ironically, my father complained for most of his life about how distant his father was and how much he hated him, he was one of those people who blamed everything on his parents but it didn't occur to him how his behaviour was affecting us.

I'm of the opinion that parents need to be relatively happy to raise happy children. And parents deserve to find someone who makes them happy! Being in a loveless, yet whole family unit sounds awfully grim to me, even if you aren't shouting at each other all day long like my folks. Divorce shouldn't really affect people that badly, at least not in adulthood. People need to learn that things don't always work out.

I have moments where I wonder how things would have turned out if I'd come from a better family life. But then I think, I'm married, have a good education, a flexible job which I can take time off from yet still earn ok money, a nice life and home. It's not perfect and we're not super rich or anything but it's a nice, happy life mostly.

Sometimes you have to learn to have less expectations - at least I try to.

 

[MyFinalRest]

My parents divorced when I was young and let me tell you it was a good thing. A very good thing. It's not good that I didn't have parents who got along and stayed together, but that isn't what was, so their divorce was very good for me!

The most ridiculous shit I have ever heard about children and their parent's divorce in pop media is that the "child will think it's their fault for their parents break-up." I don't think any child is dumb enough to blame themselves for their parents divorce. I was only 5 and never had a fucking doubt in my mind why a divorce happened between my parents.

 

[littlepenguin]

My parents divorced when I was young and let me tell you it was a good thing. A very good thing. It's not good that I didn't have parents who got along and stayed together, but that isn't what was, so their divorce was very good for me!

The most ridiculous shit I have ever heard about children and their parent's divorce in pop media is that the "child will think it's their fault for their parents break-up." I don't think any child is dumb enough to blame themselves for their parents divorce. I was only 5 and never had a fucking doubt in my mind why a divorce happened between my parents.

so just because YOU didn't have an issue with it, means that no other person in the world should, even though the majority do think that? that's not "pop media," that's psych 101.

 

[littlepenguin]

How do you explain fuck ups from stable homes? .... Everyone wants to blame someone else and are never able to accept that the only person who you should look at is yourself.

Perhaps she is an over achiever because she wants to please me, but that is better than being a fuck up because I don't care.

I also am able to finally show them how a loving, healthy relationship should be. They know how much I love my partner and for me teaching my children honesty is far more important than living a lie ... I would hate for my role models to be liers and miserable behind closed doors. My kids know that life is there to be lived and there will be times when you don't always get what you want.

+10

spot on. \m/

 

[Fawkes]

In retrospect, it was an incredibly selfish thing my mother did in deciding she wanted to find her true love and thereby deprive me of growing up in the same household with my very own father, who I truly loved.

jesus dude, go volunteer at a battered women's or homeless shelter and talk to those people about the injustices they suffered as children. where your parents went wrong was clearly not in their divorce. i applaud your mother for doing the best she could to be an example of happiness, even at the expense of it not being with your father. it's a shame you didn't learn that lesson and for the past 5 years you've been subjecting your young, impressionable, information-absorbing, behavior-learning children to verbal abuse, property destruction, discontent and tension. but, glad to hear your shot-gun wedding eventually panned out and everything's all gravy now.

i'm with Busty on this: i want my children to be exposed to love, compassion, stability and mutual-respect because that's the sort of life i hope for them to have one day and if those things can't come from being with their father, then it's in my children's best interest to end the marriage.

and, regarding your view on abortion: unless you're adopting unwanted children, some even with terrible birth defects, providing financial support and emotional stability, and healthcare to mother's with unexpected pregnancies and their resulting babies, you don't have a right to tell any woman what is and isn't 'unwise'.

for someone who has made several claims that they are not religious, you seem very set on controlling strangers' lives with ideas sprouted from religious context.

 

[Lysis]

I like how he suggests that abused people should stick it out because they are victims in their own mind. Hilarious.

 

[munki]

I am very glad that I am not still with my son's father. Our relationship was highly volatile and mercurial, where he was actively seeking other partners the whole time we were together and he tried to control important things about me. I am not of the mindset that one has to sacrifice everything for the sake of a completely dysfunctional relationship despite any progeny produced. Not a healthy model at all. My son never has known the stereotypical family unit with his father and I together. He does see his father every wednesday, and spends every other weekend with him. I honestly doubt that his father is capable of being able to spend more time with him happily, because in a lot of ways his dad is still very immature.

My son is an incredibly happy child, highly intelligent and curious. I see no negative affects on him from the fact that his father and I live in different households. He has positive male role models in addition to his dad. In the next couple months we will be living in a more "traditional" household when I move in with my beau, who is a father with 22 years of experience. The relationship I have with my beau is much more stable, kind and loving than anything I ever had with my son's dad. I think him seeing a kind and loving relationship between me and another paternal figure is much more healthy than the volatility that would have been had his dad and I stayed together.

Despite your own martyr complex of staying together for the kids' sake, and your obvious lack of respect for your own mother because of her "selfishness" in seeking love, YOUR path may not be the true path for anyone else.

 

[munki]

And staying together with an abuser because they are "sick" and need healing is fucking ridiculous. No one deserves to be abused, even if the abuser is "sick" and is not able help themselves. I would NEVER stay together with someone if they sexually abused my child. If anything I would want to kill that person despite any "sickness" that needed to be healed. The ultimate healing is death in that situation! I would NEVER stay with someone if they physically abused me. How is that a good model for my son to witness?? He would see that hurting people you love is supposedly okay and would perpetuate that in his later life.

Of course emotional abuse is a bit murkier, but even then, that is not a healthy model for a child. Being a responsible parent means creating as healthy a model as possible for your children, even if that means that the parents are not together anymore.

 

[kytnism]

op can you not see how the argument you are presenting is ego centric.

"you may be miserable, but stay together for my sake?"

holding your parents behavior accountable for your own misfortune is a miserable state.

choose freedom.

...kytnism...

 

[Mariposa]

It was the hardest decision ever to seperate from my children's mother. I could have take the easier emotional and financial option and stayed in a loveless cohabitation type marriage but I didn't. I didn't leave my kids, I parted from my wife. Are my kids fuck ups? Hardly. Sure there are times when we sit together all wish that we could see each other every morning when we wake up, but I give them more now than most dads who live under the same roof as their kids. The times I spend with my kids are all about them. A lot of my friends work so much that even if they are at home they hardly know anything about their children. My daughter may have had every reason to drop her head and make excuses but reality is she is Dux of her class, is amazingly gifted at swimming and gymnastics and has a solid group of family and friends who love her dearly. Perhaps she is an over achiever because she wants to please me, but that is better than being a fuck up because I don't care.

I give my kids everything and more. I have a genuine interest in their education and lives that most dads don't come close to providing. I also am able to finally show them how a loving, healthy relationship should be. My kids know that life is there to be lived and there will be times when you don't always get what you want. The selfish will make excuses and always wonder "what if?".

I'm not Busty's daughter, though I know he's as awesome of a dad as is out there. I am a 'product of divorce' in that my parents split when I was 7 - after 13 years of marriage. While I have made mistakes in life, I'd hardly call myself a 'fuckup'. I managed to obtain a degree, two certifications, and a career. This is partially because my father is an awesome human being and my best friend.

Psychoblast, I would advise you to put as much effort into your relationship with your kidlet as you do into making excuses. While I agree that two parents are better than one, the parents need not be married/committed to each other. Everyone around a child should take his or her best interests into account. I have never been married and I have no children. I am a happy adoptee of two boys of my business partner, both of whom I love as though they were my own. I was in love with their father once and we briefly cohabitated. It did not work. The boys are still among the best things that ever happened to me. I see them about twice per week because I want them to have stability in their lives. Their father is bipolar and their mother is pretty much asleep at the wheel despite both being professionals. I my little dudes, I explained to them that while their father and I may not be together, I still love them and there is very little I would not do to ensure they were protected. These two boys will thrive. Both have 'special' needs but they are not retarded, they both have ADHD like their bio-parents. I am adamant about keeping them off the TV and video games unless they have eaten supper and cleaned up their dishes. Some people equate that with control. Sure. They can have their opinions, but my non-stepchildren will grow up knowing they are loved and that, while they may not have all the fancy things in life, their third parent will bust her ass to ensure that they have everything they need and even much of what they want.

That's what I wish had happened to me. I am reluctant to have children of my own. I have had too many complicated relationships and I have not met anyone with whom I wish to share my life fully. If I have a child, my child will be loved, educated, and if their father and I separate/divorce, I would hope their father would remain in their life. I would be more civil than my parents were. One of my most fervent memories was recording on a tape my parents' arguments. Do not argue in front of the children. That's a rule my parents violated, and I don't consider myself emotionally or otherwise abused. My mother is dead, my father is alive and 150% there for me.

Yep. I did turn out OK despite a mother who was batshit insane (schizoaffective disorder) and a father who married an absolute shrew. I hope the OP's kid turns out OK as well, and that the OP acts as a respectable father even in times of adversity. I'd have divorced my mother too. Even absent her illness, she was a jerk and yep - a shrew. My parents did stay friends and they were happy living separately. I was not spoiled or damaged, and if I ever marry, my father will hold my arm as I walk down the aisle.

tl;dr: my parents split, I am far from privileged, and I still came out OK.

 

[MyFinalRest]

haha, she is every bit just as bad as me! But, she's on point this time, go Fawkes!