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"Morality" of drugs and art

gmanyo

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
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I was wondering what people thought of the "morality" (for lack of a better term) of taking drugs while watching movies, reading books, listening to music, etc. I've never done drugs myself, but I've always been a bit annoyed at people when they take drugs on their first viewing of a movie. I feel that it would detract from the intended aesthetic or message of a work; it would make for an "impure" experience.
 
It doesn't really bother me that much or anything. I just think that looking at art from a purist standpoint, drugs would detract from the experience in that they change the aesthetic of a piece. The only time I'm a bit annoyed is if I suggest a movie to someone and I want to discuss it with them. It's almost like you're discussing different movies.

Another question: are there drugs that, even if they have strong effects, won't really affect how one perceives a movie or other piece of art?
 
The issue of taking drugs itself can be seen as a moral dilemma, but choosing what you consume whilst on drugs is just a personal choice.

As for drugs making interpretation of art 'impure'...They will give you different experiences to what you'd get when sober, but a lot of drugs provide a greatly enhanced, fulfilling and 'pure' experience of art. Think of all the psychedelics that can turn films into profound, hugely personal and significant experiences. Even if they inhibit your ability to follow a plot or recognise words, you're still consuming art and experiencing it in an impossibly heightened way. Same goes for music & psychedelics/MDMA/etc. So I reckon that if you have the right drugs for the right art, the drugs may or may not detract from arts' intended message but it can hugely enhance the intended aesthetic.

Many drugs aren't right for art appreciation though...Downers and stimulants spring to mind. But I don't think it's wrong for someone to consume art on any drug, no matter how pointless it may be. Not gonna take them aside and tell them they can't watch this film because they're on speed and cannot enjoy it the way the creators originally envisaged.
 
I really only used the word "morality" because I couldn't think of a better word; certainly I don't think that there's anything less or more moral about watching a movie on drugs or not watching a movie on drugs.

I guess I can see that it might enhance certain things, and this is obviously a personal thing. But for me, I wouldn't want drugs to enhance things; I want to view the movie as what it is and make a critical analysis about it (I don't think people with an occupation in reviewing movies should do drugs on the job). And if I'm debating a movie with someone, it annoys me if they've only seen it on drugs because, like I said earlier, it's like watching two different movies.

This might be different for me for music. Music has less to do with story, so future listenings aren't as much affected by previous ones.
 
I actually opened this thread, hoping that it was going to be exploring the idea of using drugs to create artwork, something that ive often felt conflicted about, being both an artist, and a user of drugs.

As far as experiencing art and film while intoxicated on drugs, I agree that it's a matter of personal choice. I think certain drugs like psychedelics can easily add "meaning" and. "beauty", when it's actually not there. However, the first time I tripped on acid, I did go to the metropolitan museum and it was really awesome, looking at all the early renaissance works with all the religious imagery. It was a really peacefull way to experience LSD. Of course I sort of fucked up the vibe when me and my friends got back to Brooklyn and all decided to add some weed, ambien and heroin to the mix, but we were pretty young at the time.

Ideally, Art is one of the few things that I appreciate sober. When I'm high I can still enjoy it, but when I'm sober, and can feel something really strong and real from a painting (or a film or tv show for that matter), I think that's the bet way to experience it. I often find that looking at the works of someone like DaVinci or William Blake while high on heroin makes me want to cry. Good art should be able to touch you sober, or not IMO.
 
I'll let you in on a story about the first time I did any opiate. It was 5 mg oxycodone, that is all, but that was enough to get me feeling it good. I remember it vividly. I took a shower, took the Percocet, went down stairs and kind of sat around, entertained my sister. And then a feeling started to come over me, it was subtle, and foreign, but nice. About an hour after I took it, maybe a little more, my grandfather, sister, and I went out to eat with our neighbors, and then my grandfather and I took my sister to a dance/musical performance for young kids, and we were there to watch it. She was in it, by the way, and she played a character from a Dr. Suess story. We got there early, and I felt great just roaming around, greeting people. And I had time to take a seat in a room with an enormous window while my sister was getting her costume and make-up done. The sun was setting, and as I looked out of the window, and saw how green the trees were, how beautiful nature, everything, was, I understood opiates. A little while later the 4 hour long show began, and I cramped myself up into a tiny seat next to a stranger, but I felt fine. The show began, and these perfomances by young kids were dazzling, I saw their true artistic beauty. I did not mind sitting in one place for such a long while, no, I was enthralled in the excitement that was life. When my sister performed, here skill was revealed to me without any shadows, and I saw her true abilities. Not all drugs dampen the ability to appreciate art for what it is, but some actually allow it to happen much more clearly and with much more of an appreciation. I had to tell that story, because I think drugs and art do go together, and not apart.
 
I guess I can see that it might enhance certain things, and this is obviously a personal thing. But for me, I wouldn't want drugs to enhance things; I want to view the movie as what it is and make a critical analysis about it

I will agree with OP here. I have always found that promoting drug use for art appreciation is not a classy thing to do. I feel it degrades the intellectual property of the art. Artists create pieces to force an emotional response. Drugs alter emotions. Thus a problem.

As for psychs.
As a friend of mine once said:
Psychedelics make smart people smarter and dumb people dumber.
 
I think an interesting discussion would be the morality of using drugs to fuel creativity or enhance it. I made a reference to this idea in my previous point, but it's something that I often debate myself.

I may be biased but my personal view, is that using psychedelic drugs to enhance creativity is kind of a cheap move. I guess if you can do it really originally and intelligently, that it could make for something interesting, but I've seen way too much cliche bullshit made by my peers at school as well as by more established professionals. I've always been kind of on the fence about how I feel towards Alex Greys work, as it is beautifully rendered, but I feel like maybey he's cutting himself short, doing pretty much the same trippy shit over and over again. I imagine I may get criticism for this view point, but I stand by it.

At the same time, I've often used speed and heroin to motivate myself to do artwork. While I am always pretty critical of myself, as far as my owne art goes, I feel like this is still a shitty thing to do, but I find that at least I'm not using the drugs to get ideas, just to get me in the mood to do it. The fact that I've depended on drugs for those kind of reasons begs the question if I actually should be doing art in the first place perhaps, if I feel that I need chemical stimulation to get off my ass
 
I don't see any issue at all in using drugs, and creating or enjoying art on them. In fact, as I said, I think it is quite wonderful. The art does not change at all, only the perception, and the perception is extremely personal to the viewer. If he or she would like to use drugs and enjoy art, there is not a thing wrong with it. Using drugs and creating art makes for unique and wonderfully inspired art. If drugs were never used to create all the art that has ever been created, the world would be a very different place.
 
If drugs were never used to create all the art that has ever been created, the world would be a very different place.

All the art that was ever created, was not created with the use of drugs, though I'm going to assume that what you really meant, was if drugs were not used by certain artists, we would have a very different art culture than we do today. And I do agree with that to a degree. I'm sure that even in the renaissance era, there were probably psychedelic plants or mushrooms that were known about by the general population, but I don't really believe that the majority of the artists from the renaissance, up until perhaps the the enlightenment period of European art, we're using psychoactive substances to fuel their creativity, and a lot of the art from that period has some of the most surreal, "trippy", imagery that I know of. And I just can't imagine Heronymous Bosch taking shrooms with his homeboys back in the 1500's.

I don't believe it's wrong to take drugs and do art, especially if you're doing art for fun. But if I found myself relying on ideas I came up with while under the influence of psychedelics, I personally would be concerned about my owne creative process. With drugs like speed, I feel like its not that the amphetamines "give" me ideas, it's more that they help me concentrate and devote myself to the process it takes to get what's in my head onto paper.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as judgmental or biased against psychedelic's, I'm not trying to be, I just think its an interesting discussion, and would like to know how other people on here who are creative feel about this.
 
I will agree with OP here. I have always found that promoting drug use for art appreciation is not a classy thing to do. I feel it degrades the intellectual property of the art. Artists create pieces to force an emotional response. Drugs alter emotions. Thus a problem.

As for psychs.
As a friend of mine once said:
Psychedelics make smart people smarter and dumb people dumber.

i don't agree with a word of this.
psychedelics have inspired some amazing art - not just by people who have used it (or are on it when they create something) but art made with people affected by LSD etc in mind. creativity is a form of human communication that is not as simple as a creator and his/her passive audience. the audience is an increasingly active participant in all kinds of art.

what about the story that francis crick was on LSD when he discovered the DNA double-helix?!
makes smart people smarter, indeed. it is an incredible extension of whatever potentials already exist within an individual. some drugs may have the potential to aid our evolution by expanding our thinking and conceptual abilities.

i love playing music on LSD, i am given unfiltered understandings of the tiniest subtleties of sound. a perspective and a perceptive insight that cannot be attained by a sober mind.

if you've never listened to music on psychedelic drugs, you've missed out on something very special, that can't be explained by a dry analysis of "the intellectual property of the art" (whatever that means? sounds like some neo-con idea of creativity; like ideas and expressions are material objects "owned" by the creator, who has some kind of imaginary agency over how it is interpreted - nonsense.)

some of western culture's most highly regarded creative people - be they writers, musicians, filmmakers, painters, fashion designers - whatever - get HIGH ON DRUGS. maybe sometimes, maybe a lot. how many of the raving anti-drug freaks we see constantly on the media are truly creative individuals?

they might be power/ego hungry entertainers - hollywood actors or some shit, sports stars or more likely - politicians - but i can't think of too many respectable artists who come out publicly decrying drug use, unless of course they are recovering/former addicts (or users in denial).

humans take drugs for so many different reasons - for entertainment, inspiration, exploration, celebration. there is nothing inherently moral or immoral about that.

if you think that the stereotype linking artists and drugs is a coincidence, i would tend to disagree. i am not saying that all creativity is caused by drugs, but the inspiration drawn from various substances cannot be denied. look at popular music from the 60s through to now - it is quite easy to gauge when the performers (and audience) were inspired by particular drug trends, from the amphetamines of early rock'n'roll to the folkies with cannabis, late 60s psychedelia to the 70s and 80s infatuation with cocaine, the heroin and speed of punk rock. art reflects all kinds of things, and drugs happen to be one of them.

sure, plenty of creative people don't take drugs - but a lot of us do, too. being affected by drugs doesn't necessarily taint your perception of something - you don't always have your memory compromised, you don't always fall into the stereotype of the giggling stoner, or the incapacitated waster. the reality of drug use is often much more composed, functional and normal than the media and government would have us believe.

yes, it is human creativity that spawns artistic development, but you can't condemn drugs being part of the artistic process (in creation or consumption) unless you have some insight into how sensitive creativity is to its environment.
creativity is influenced by so much - from social and cultural context, to the issues of the day, to ways of thinking and ways of being.

for the last 80+ years, drugs have been heavily tied up in the social and cultural issues that have been reflected in western art. drugs are currently a deviant, criminal, rebellious activity - this is because of prohibition. when alcohol was outlawed, a whole culture of illicit drinking appeared, and it has been the same for drugs for almost a century - it creates communities of people that live outside of the law, including creative people and those from all walks of life.

i'm amazed that people on bluelight have fallen for the puritanical war-on-drugs notion that drugs are inherently bad and corrupting.

it might not be a "classy thing to do" but i like getting high and going to the art gallery, or dropping acid and going dancing, or smoking a joint and jamming with friends, or sitting down with a good book after brewing up some poppy tea.
to me that is classier than watching television, going out drinking, going "shopping", playing video games or any number of other inane 21st century distractions.

enjoyment of any number of arts are enhanced by any number of drugs, and i must say that one of my favourite things about taking drugs is seeing what comes out of my subconscious and into my songs, poems or sketches when my mind is in an altered state.
art is an expression of the mind, and drugs are capable of altering the mind. i don't understand how people can fail to see the connection there, but perhaps it is the circle of people i mix with.

people might not dig it, but you're kidding yourself if you think art is cheapened by drugs.
haven't you ever been to a gallery opening, with all of the free champagne and wine?!
(drugs + art = bliss) if you ask me
 
i feel like the question of 'morality' comes down to the individual admitting they can't create or appreciate art without drugs. if drugs are part of who the person is, then they must admit that. for example, van gogh wouldn't be van gogh if he wasn't an absinth-swilling genius; that was who he was. i have pulled off a 4.0 three terms in a row, the whole time strung-out on opiates. did the opiates contribute? maybe, i can't say with certainty because i didn't do it without them so i don't have a control which to compare, but the fact is i've been on them the whole time and i can't honestly claim that i achieved those marks on my own. or what if it wasn't drugs? what if i were a compulsive womanizer and sex addict? what if i over-ate or starved myself? what then? a person simply must admit who they are; that's the morality.
 
i feel like the question of 'morality' comes down to the individual admitting they can't create or appreciate art without drugs. if drugs are part of who the person is, then they must admit that. for example, van gogh wouldn't be van gogh if he wasn't an absinth-swilling genius; that was who he was. i have pulled off a 4.0 three terms in a row, the whole time strung-out on opiates. did the opiates contribute? maybe, i can't say with certainty because i didn't do it without them so i don't have a control which to compare, but the fact is i've been on them the whole time and i can't honestly claim that i achieved those marks on my own. or what if it wasn't drugs? what if i were a compulsive womanizer and sex addict? what if i over-ate or starved myself? what then? a person simply must admit who they are; that's the morality.

That was well put. I too spent half of my last year of college strung out on heroin, the other half strung out on stims and benzos, and I too got fucking stellar grades. I havnt used any opiates or stims in about four months, aside from suboxone, and I have to say that my ability to draw now is a lot better than it was back then. But it's impossible to say whether it would have just gotten better regardless of whether I was high or not.

What I do find is that I feel a lot more free creatively speaking, when I'm using drugs. I can't decide though whether that is a good thing or bad thing (probably neither, I guess it doesn't need to be all black and white).

I did some pretty great art/writing while I was high, but I also did a lot of shit that was obviously the moronic concoction of someone who'd been shooting coke all night. At the moment I'm a lot more critical of my work, which means that I put out a lot less, as I'm more discriminating about what's good and what's bad. But I do miss the kind of free flowing creative process I could achieve while high, regardless of the outcome.

As for appreciating art, like I said above, ideally I would like to view art sober. Going to meuseums high on psychedelics is fun, and so is going to the meuseum high on benzos and heroin. But I feel like when I'm under the influence, I have a harder time discerning which peice truly moves me, as they all seem to do so in some way while I'm intoxicated. When I'm sober I can easily say, "well this ones well done, there is good draftsmanship here, but it doesn't really do it for me." and when I see something truly beautiful (like mathias Grunewalds crucifixion trytich, for all you art history nerds out there) it just blows me away, in a unique and private way.
 
i think the OP is mad at his b/f for going high to the cinema.
On topic: I don't see a difference between watching a movie while high and going to a party while high. I mean, you wouldn't "appreciate" or understand things on the same way. So is it immoral to attend to a party while on drugs? is it immoral to go to the cinema while on drugs? is it immoral to get high in your room? it's all the same question.
 
I guess to make this whole discussion more interesting, we would have to take the "morality" out of it. Do you feel like you can appreciate art as much while high
 
Joining in mid-thread...
I certainly APPRECIATE art while high. There's no question about that. I appreciate it in the same way I appreciate it while sober, only my appreciation is intensified.

My problem with it isn't so much HOW MUCH I appreciate it, as it is whether I SHOULD appreciate it. In a sense, everything is subjective and as long as you get appreciation out of something, it serves its purpose. But at the same time, I feel the art as the author envisioned it to be is at its purest when I'm sober. As different as all of our sober perspectives are, one sober person differs less from the next as he does from someone tripping. Or so your logic goes, I'm assuming.

But what if it's not like this? Psychedelics indisputably discern the messages I wouldn't see sober. The themes would be magnified, sure, but they were definitely there in the first place, and many people pick them up and are able to enjoy the art because of them. Reading something like Gravity's Rainbow or Pale Fire, I'd be able to see a million connections a second and appreciate the novel as if I'd been studying it for years. A shortcut, sure, but how far is it from the author's intent?
 
Slightly off topic, but what annoys me is people who say things like "OMG, this would be sooo good high" or "I listen to this song with weed everyday!" Especially Youtube commenters. It sometimes seems like these people can't enjoy these things while not high, and it labels the music I like as "stoner music". So now I listen to "LSD/Stoner music" even though I've never taken drugs illegally in my life.

Animal Collective and MGMT fans are often the biggest offenders.
 
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