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Kratom The Kratom Megathread

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I haven't used the powder extract for a long time. I guess I would parachute that, but personally I love making tea out of Kratom. I actually like the taste of it. Then again, whenever I get dried pods, I just break them up in my hands and chew them up, chasing with grapefruit juice. <<OD central.
 
after taking the kratom tea last night all i felt like doing was lazing in bed. shredded some electric a little bit but it grew old fast and i just wanted to lie down yet i couldnt sleep worth shit. i dont think i like kratom. it was a nice buzz for few hours though. thanks to a monster tolerance nothing really seems to work anymore. probably wouldve had me smashed years ago.
 
How to Eliminate Kratom Withdrawal

This method will reduce your kratom withdrawal by about 95%, and it'll allow you to go to work regularly without suffering from WD's while at work. Its a true, tried and tested method:

Step 1. Try to taper down your kratom use to 2-4 grams twice or 3 times daily (I'm talking about the powder, not extract)

Step 2. Take your last 2-4 grams of powder after dinner, so around 7 or 8 PM. This will ensure a decent night sleep.

Step 3. Your WD's should start next day around noon to afternoon. As soon as you feel them coming on take the following: 1x250 mg Phenibut + 1x500 mg GABA.

Step 4. You need to take those 2 capsules every 2 to 3 hours during the first 3 worst days of your withdrawal. After 3 days you can taper it off to maybe taking them every 4 to 6 hours.

Step 5. You can also take loperamide if you get loose stool or diarrhea

And that is that, your WD's should only last 5 to 6 days at the most and you will barely feel a damn thing.

For some reason phenibut in combination with GABA works amazingly well, as opposed to phenibut alone. I believe the GABA takes care of the body WD's, and phenibut takes care of brain WD's since it does cross the BB barrier while GABA doesnt.

Good luck ;)
 
You realise you might end up going through GABA withdrawals if you do such a cycle regularly?
 
I'm starting to wonder if this same phenibut/GABA combination might work in all opiate withdrawal.

This study seems to hint at it: http://www.poppies.org/cgi-bin/historical/snapshot.cgi?az=show_thread&om=53&forum=DCForumID19

Increased mesolimbic GABA concentration blocks heroin self-administration in the rat

Opiate reinforcement has been hypothesized to be mediated by an inhibition of mesolimbic gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) release that subsequently disinhibits ventral tegmental area (VTA) dopamine neurons. In support of this hypothesis, this study demonstrates that when administered directly into the lateral ventricle, the VTA, or the ventral pallidum, but not the nucleus accumbens, gamma-vinyl-GABA (GVG, an irreversible GABA-transaminase inhibitor, 20-50 microg) dose dependently blocked heroin (0.06 mg/kg) self-administration (SA), as assessed by an increase in heroin SA at low doses of GVG and an initial increase followed 1 to 2 h later by a blockade of heroin SA at higher GVG doses.

This effect lasted 3 to 5 days. In drug-naive rats, intra-VTA GVG pretreatment also prevented or delayed acquisition of heroin SA for 2 days. This GVG effect was prevented or reversed by systemic or intra-VTA pretreatment with the GABA(B) antagonist 2-hydroxysaclofen, but not the GABA(A) antagonist bicuculline. Similarly, coadministration of heroin with aminooxy-acetic acid (1-4 mg/kg) or ethanolamine-O-sulfate (50-100 mg/kg), two reversible GABA transaminase inhibitors, dose dependently reduced heroin reinforcement. Coadministration of (+/-)-nipecotic acid (0.1-5 mg/kg) with heroin, or intra-VTA or -ventral pallidum pretreatment with (+/-)-nipecotic acid (10 microg) or NO-711 (2 microg), two GABA uptake inhibitors, significantly increased heroin SA behavior, an effect also blocked by systemic 2-hydroxysaclofen, but not bicuculline.

Taken together, these experiments, for the first time, demonstrate that pharmacological elevation of mesolimbic GABA concentration blocks heroin reinforcement by activating GABA(B) receptors, supporting the GABAergic hypothesis of opiate reinforcement and the incorporation of GABA agents in opiate abuse treatment
Click to expand...
 
Fresco said:
I've heard of phenibut withdrawal, but I never heard of GABA withdrawals
Click to expand...

Phenibut withdrawal is GABA withdrawal.

GABA drugs can help in opi WD, as they deal with a lot of the side effects, but as they don't work on same receptors it technically isn't relieving and/or prolonging the WD
 
nAON said:
Phenibut withdrawal is GABA withdrawal.

GABA drugs can help in opi WD, as they deal with a lot of the side effects, but as they don't work on same receptors it technically isn't relieving and/or prolonging the WD
Click to expand...
But then how can phenibut and GABA work on kratom withdrawals, when kratom affects the same endorphin receptors as opiates do??
 
Sorry I have not returned to this thread in a week or so, I've been uber busy!!

I'm thinking that the method of kratom perparation and consumption determines the severity of dependence and withdrawal. The patterns I see are folks getting full-agonist-like effects AND withdrawals from the tinctures and extracts, whereas folks who only use commercial powdered leaf seem to be in check for the most part. It makes sense, because with tinctures and extracts, not only are you only getting SOME of the many alkaloids that contribute to the well-rounded effects of kratom, but I also think the high concentration of the main alkaloids simply turns kratom into a full-on drug comparable to full agonists. I believe that the combination of several alkaloids within the plant (not just mitragynine and 7-OHM) provide ceiling effects and tolerance/dependency prevention (to an extent). Obviously, and I'm living proof, plain commercial leaf is plenty addicting, however I still have to go through a whole process to prepare it, weigh it out, pour a bottle of orange juice, funnel the powder into the bottle, shake it up, and then it's absolutely disgusting to chug down the liquid poop :| Also, effects do not simply increase with dosage, you hit a ceiling and it starts to work against you, preventing you from dosing higher and higher and higher with tolerance....therefore for those reasons alone it is less addicting than the tinctures and extracts . It literally forces you to take a break, otherwise it simply just won't get you high anymore, just nauseous!

I do also think the fact that the main alkaloids are being separated from all the other goodies in the plant contributes to how it causes dependency. I've read that many folks believe there are both agonists AND antagonists within the kratom leaf, meaning that if you eat enough kratom, the antagonists begin to out-weigh the agonists, resulting in negative effects, dysphoria, anxiety, sweating, shivers, and obviously lots of puke (sounds a lot like withdrawal, eh?). This probably explains why there is a 'sweet spot' with kratom, where you either dose barely too low and get disappointing effects, or dose barely too high and spend the rest of the day yackin'. This balance is essential to kratom's wonder and most certainly contributes to the easy-to-handle nature of using powdered leaf.


Having said that, I am sad to admit that I have been using daily for a couple months now. I am full on addicted and can even feel the beginnings of withdrawal symptoms when I attempt to abstain for more than a day. I have a trip to the East Coast planned for April, and I will be spending nearly 2 weeks there with no access to kratom, weed, opiates, or drugs of any kind really. This is a GOOD THING, because I definitely need a break from the drug culture, however the thought of going 2 weeks with no kratom sounds like a walk through hell... SOOOOOO guess what this guy's New Year's resolution is? =D

I will NOT be dependent on anything by April 2012. That includes weed, which I also feel I am somewhat dependent on, especially if I'm without any kratom. Luckily, my drug habits are limited to just those two substances, so I have a hill to climb but it's not a terribly steep one. I most certainly have a moderate opioid tolerance by this point, not that I needed a wake up call or anything, but I rarely ever get my hands on synthetic opiates (oxy, hydro), and I CWE'd 30mg of hydrocodone just the other day, drank on an empty stomach, didn't feel a goddamn thing. This is a problem, seeing how ~2 years ago 15mg would've floored me. I am going to make an actual plan, or a dosing schedule of sorts. I will strategically plan out a tapering process and ween myself down to the point where kratom is NOT the first damn thing I think about upon waking up. Someone please hold me to this!! :)
 
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I can add that to withdraw from phenibut all you have to do is take 500 mg of GABA every 2 to 3 hours the first day, and 2nd day 500 mg again every 4 to 6 hrs. This completely takes care of the funnybutt WD's.

In fact its so fucking easy you're gonna kick yourself in the head for not doing this method sooner, and going through phenibut WD's which can be quite nasty for some people.

Actually I'm going to start a separate thread for this, maybe mods can sticky this thread and the next one??
 
We're not going to sticky these threads as they have been discussed many many times before and doesn't really follow the BDD format.

I can, however, merge this thread with the kratom megathread in Other Drugs, if you would like.
 
I just did my last dose of kratom this morning, now I'm going to test just the GABA alone for kratom withdrawals, and see how that goes. Maybe you can get away with taking just GABA alone.

I shall report back with test results later next week.

Happy new year all you filthy freaks :)
 
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