to the first point- i used to have a part time job for a private company and was offered union membership, so it clearly is an option. its not just to placate people, unions with private sector memberships have also been engaged in arranging
strike action for better pensions.
i don't think the public sector is trying to get their hands in an infinite pot, they're just rightly asking for what they've been promised. is this not a fair comparative situation- i am contracted to do some work for you over a long period, you decide you don't want to pay me as much, you end up in court for breach of contract and end up paying more than you'd have done in the first place. i'm not convinced we can't afford these pensions- (especially if we incease taxation, which i think is needed; none of the tory reforms have had decent projected returns anyway, they're just making ideological changes using the recession as an excuse and couting on the innumeracy of our population to swallow their shit), the net public service pension cost is
0.3% of our GDP.. we spend 2% of our GDP on defence, i.e. murder, i'd pay for it out of that.
i'm glad you'd spend it on other public services, if the government was planning to do this rather than degrading all public services, i'd be much more up for saying people should give up some of their pension.
Of course you can join a union in private sector employment, but if you aren't in a highly specialised environment good luck with your strike making a bit of difference. I can't even find out what the out come of the strike at AstraZenneca was either? As far as I can tell the company wouldn't and didn't budge? Either way we are talking about a whopper of a company here though - their profits were something like 1.9 billion in 3 months, and most companies aren't actually making any profit at the moment. The other type of company that workers can strike against is public transport - because they cause disruption to normal people's lives. So if you are an unskilled, or skilled but in a profession with an excess of staff (like 99% of places), don't expect to be able to strike with any kind of effectiveness unless you can harm the general public. And even then, don't hold your breath.
All of the figures i've seen banded about (your link doesn't work by the way), even by the Guardian, state that public sector pensions currently cost around 1.9% of GDP. That might not sound like a lot, but last year the government spent £155 bn more than it took in tax revenue. These savings represent about 11 bn per year of that black hole, which will have to be found from somewhere else if they don't go through - whether that means cutting more public services, or taking that money from the private sector workers. I would also like to point out that the majority of that saving actually comes from the higher earners in the public sector. I.e. those managers who currently stand to retire on £50k+ per year, plus a lump sum of over 100k. The middle and lower income workers will have to work longer (like everyone else in the UK), but they will ultimately end up with identical or better pensions than before under this proposed scheme.
I agree that it is unfair because they were promised the world in 2005. But the world was a very different place then, and it was stupid of Labour to assume that the boom would last forever, which it would have had to to make a 50 year promise like they did.
Come on, it's way too early to start talking about the effects of the cuts. Of course the Tories haven't cut as badly as Labour claimed in the run-up to the election (do you believe anybody's manifesto?), but that's hardly saying that the cuts (most of which are yet to be fully implemented) and proposed cuts aren't completely excessive. Though you've made it clear once again that your position is entirely ideological with the 'Labour licks union arse' statement. I knew it wouldn't be long.
You haven't substantiated why my saying that Labour is the union's lap dog means that my position is ideological? They are reliant on the unions for funding and votes. If anyone's arguments are ideologically driven it is surely yours, because it appears that the conservatives could never do anything right. My point, which you didn't really address, was that even Labour who loves to splash the cash would have had to have made cuts. And it is a fact that they wouldn't do that unless it was absolutely necessary because it erodes their voter base.
If we spent £155 bn more than we took last year, and this year is worse than last year, how long do you think it's going to be before that becomes unsustainable? That money is coming directly from the bond market, and if they see that we aren't actually ever going to get out of this mess our bond interest will spike which will increase the deficit even further. The fact is that there are far more socialistic countries than ours - i'm thinking of Greece and Spain here, who failed to make these cuts and now find themselves in the shit. If taxing their way out of this mess was a possibility, do you not think they would have done it?
whatever cuts the tories have made thus far regarding the NHS have had a significant effect [negatively] on waiting times for various areas where people are in need of operations, and detection times are decreasing in some areas. that's from stats that came out in the last few weeks. there have been minor improvements in the length of time between detection and treatment of some cancers tho, due to better system of referals I think. waiting times generally for ops are already on the increase.
I took my sister for her appointment at Jimmy's, yesterday for her current run of post transplant apps. it was meant to be 'skeleton staff' and 'essential services'. if they'd of cancelled her app for the day, she said she'd of been fine with it, as really it wasn't urgent in terms of actual care and I think that can be said for a lot of out patients there, so the term 'essential services' is even a pretty broad term, for 'pretty much most services' still being perfermed. The Nurses were as good as they always were, and the same ones she usually sees. the mood was positive and the pickets outside were upbeat and I plastered all their leaflets inside my car while I was waiting around.
Mary, among a few of who my sister saw, said her friend who was out on strike, similar age, about 45, and to maintain her pension to the level it was supposed to be, would have to put in an extra £1200 of her own money each year, just to keep it going to that amount.
Can't say I'd be best pleased if I started work 20 years ago knowing that regardless of me being paid a shit wage for a job that really doesn't pay that well considering the context of it, all things considered I would be ok in the long run, because there are great benefits and a decent pension I can rely on to help compensate for that. £1200 a month to find on a fairly low income I cant imagine will be easy. or even achievable for her.
how this can't seem like criminal behaviour and theft by the Government, I don't know.
this total focus on public and private sector debate and comparison I find totally dehumanises the situation, and 'allows' dishonest attempts for justification of the above by using a whole bunch of irrelevant issues to be brought in to justify the unjustifiable though political rhetoric and unrelated issues.
those issues are best separated and discussed individually; or just left for those who see life through a series of ven diagrams and charts and powerpoint displays, rather than people and situations
so much disdain for humanity Mr Smokes Blunts. it radiates in everyone of your posts. I don't know you well enough to understand why. I have been thinking about it a ton tho, because I don't like not knowing what makes a person dislike humans so much. Brimz 'best of BL' quote this morning made a lot of sense and helped a little tho. I've come from a decent middle management position in a private sector job too.
I really wish you'd learn to love folks. however annoying peeps can be, we're all just singing the same story, just in different ways.
I don't really know what gives you the impression that I don't love folks and show disdain for them because I don't agree with your position on various issues? I am a realist through and through, and it seems pretty obvious to me that someone has to pay for these pensions in the long run. I would absolutely love it if we could give everyone a 10k a year pension when they retire, but here on planet earth I don't think that's ever going to be feasible. I regularly hear that public sector workers get worse pay than the private sector, then being the horrible person that I am I go looking for evidence of this, and I find out that public sector workers in fact get paid more. I see that as a country we are going to be in 1 trillion pounds worth of debt by the end of the year, and I think about the life my children are going to have if I stay in this country. I think about the fact we will likely go bust again, and how it could all be avoided if we took some of the pain now instead of magnifying it by a thousand in 20 years time. Politicians today are mortgaging our children's future for votes today, and our children will not thank us for it when their public services resemble third world countries.
