So Who Likes Benzos? Ver III: Blackouts and Amnesia

[pinkanga]

^^^ @TripppAR I assume.

 

[TripppAR]

Nah bro.. I agree! ...


One damn doctor told me he did!? :-S ... alot of doctors are more then willing to LIE to a patient though if they have already made assumptions about said patients. This upsets me.

e.g my mate just recently had a cyst out of his back, he went to the doctor in severe pain and had to have his cyst wound (weeping and gushing at times) repacked basically right near his arsehole - this disturbed him - but the doctor REFUSED to give him meds more then forte's or tramadol ! He ended up taking the trams just because he needed SOMETHING to relieve him and was forced to take like 6-8 ... :-(

He went to hospital and was given 2 x boxes of endones AND tramadol from a doctor there.. days later still in pain and having to STAND for 50 minutes in teh OTHER fucking docs office they assume he is a drug seeker and refuse him help.


That makes me upset.

 

[Christ!]

I actually brought up the "hipocratic oath" with a doctor when she REFUSED to prescribe me a medication she had been prescribing for like 6 months (alprazolam) and she WIGGED OUT at me and kicked me out of the office. It was along the lines of "Well you took an oath to help your patients in any way possible etc etc etc" - Look up the hipocratic oath and you will see that TECHNICALLY they shouldn't be refusing you ANYTHING ! Maybe people needed the doctors every word like 15 years ago.. but with the advent of the internet EVERYONE is a fucking doc haha... and its VERY easy to look up symptoms and medication and just general information.

edit - Yeah what devine moments said

Although you are correct. They DO look down on you for knowing such information - Which I personally find appalling - In a SANE society you should be encouraged, hell, REWARDED! For knowing such things..

I'm kind of glad doctors make it hard for me to get benzos . Of course I'd like the people that need them get them as well though.

Some Doctors might be intimidated or annoyed at someone that's done research, but I've generally found it's not a problem. Even if you think you know 100% what's wrong with you and what medication you need, the doctor still has MUCH more experience and training....I'm not saying Doctors are perfect (they are most def not!) but if you go in there with no history, basically telling them what your problem is, then confidently listing off/hinting towards drugs that are abused or cause dependence...you can't really expect them to take you seriously.

IMO it really pays to find a Doc you get along well with...build up a relationship with them over years, build trust. If the time comes when you need a couple weeks of benzos, or some short-term pain relief, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Sorry, back to topic

 

[drug_mentor]

At the end of the day it comes down to individual experience with different doctors and you can't possibly say that all doctors have the exact same attitude, however I do think TripppAR raises a real issue in that it seems a lot of people in the medical community (not just doctors but pharmacists and the like as well) treat you with suspicion and sometimes anger if you have a clue what you are talking about. I have had to correct doctors and pharmacists on a number of occassions about shit they had wrong and let me tell you not once was it appreciated, no better I should of said nothing and them continue to live in the world where they know every single fucking thing.

I can't generalise negatively about all doctors, I haven't seen every doctor in the world, I haven't even seen most of the ones in my town. But I can definitively say that in MY own experience (which is probably quite extensive for my age) in dealing with the medical community they really don't seem to like the patient to have a clue and often will make ridiculous assumptions about you simply because you are well researched on a condition you think you might have or a medication you think might help. How is it productive to treat a patient like shit for taking an interest in his own medical problems and treatment?

 

[Christ!]

. But I can definitively say that in MY own experience (which is probably quite extensive for my age) in dealing with the medical community they really don't seem to like the patient to have a clue and often will make ridiculous assumptions about you simply because you are well researched on a condition you think you might have or a medication you think might help. How is it productive to treat a patient like shit for taking an interest in his own medical problems and treatment?

This has happened to me before and it was aggravating to say the least. The doctor and psychiatrist I see now actually encourage me to take an interest in my treatment.

It's not right for doctors to draw assumptions, and it's probably the case that too many are like this. We all draw assumptions though, often without realizing it...I guess the difference is the doctor is in the position of caring for peoples welfare. Maybe they need to change some things in training?

It seems like doctors get like this generally when they get the vibe you're after benzos/pain killers? Or is it for anything? I can't believe a doctor would act like that if someone was taking an interest and researching a condition like diabetes but I might be wrong.

How is it productive to treat a patient like shit for taking an interest in his own medical problems and treatment?

It isn't. Why are they like this? Maybe because patients in the past have presented similar to you and ended up fucking the doctor over? Or maybe they're just arrogant arseholes. In every bit of information on 'spotting drug seekers/doctor shoppers' it always says heaps clearly that legitimate patients can seem like the shoppers. If I was a doctor I'd probably rather treat my patients properly even if 5/10 ended up being non-legit. Better than 0/10 patients being treated properly.

 

[TripppAR]

100000000000000000000000 % man ! ! ! ^^^


Thats all i'm saying boys. And I seek for GENUINE diagnosed anxiety disorder... for a doc to just cut me off and tell me im an addict and then reccommend a rehab clinic? .. its offensive.

As are ASSUMPTIONS from doctors.


Everyone is right here i think...

 

[bobbydarren]

But I can definitively say that in MY own experience (which is probably quite extensive for my age) in dealing with the medical community they really don't seem to like the patient to have a clue and often will make ridiculous assumptions about you simply because you are well researched on a condition you think you might have or a medication you think might help.

Unfortunately the Dr shoppers manual tells them that. They learn it in uni, and from Federal and state medical journals that It's a sign of a drug abuser/seeker if the medication the patient is well informed about has any degree of abuse potential. Ofcourse I know alot about every medication I"m on or have ever taken, but that doesn't make me a Dr shopper, but when I know about sleeping, anxiety, and pain medication, I am a potential and probable addict.

What is most annoying is by not continuing the prescribing of medication I routinely was prescribed by the Dr's that were previously at the establishment [new dr's] I suppose they're also saying the Dr's I had been seeing for the previous 3 years were morons not to detect me in that time, and they're so much smarter than the former dr's.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Mr Blonde do you have valium for withwrawal/tapering purpose off xanax? Im sure you know this but the long half life seems to make it the perfect benzo to use for such a purpose. Remember those PMs I sent you a few weeks back regarding 100 pan fortes boxes? Well swap that with valium easy enough.

I've already come off the Xanax, that was a couple of months or so ago I finally got off it. Funny story actually; so I get checked into rehab or HADS at the hospital here, I'm there and I'd already taken a heap of clonazepam in the morning before going in. Straight off the nurses are accusing me of lying about my benzo use because I had told them my main drug I had been using was alprazolam and since I'd taken a heap of clonazepam that morning when I went in I wasn't in WD. I told them that I had used clonazepam and told them to check my blood/urine levels if they didn't believe me. I did get urine and blood samples taken, didn't ever hear back on the results though as I'll explain.

So then I see the doctor on my first day in there and he is a lot more understanding and he says to me that because the nurses are working around drug addicts they develop prejudiced views and sometimes won't treat you nicely, which he thought was unfair but there isn't a lot he can do about it. I get put on multiple doses of diazepam a day.

Anyway, in rehab there is fucking NOTHING to do. On my first day we had one Narcotics Anonymous meeting thing, where we all sat there and listened to three previous junkies tell their stories. The rest of the time there was absolutely nothing to do, no drug counselling offered or anything like that. So I spent most of my time reading my pharmacology book.

The second day, in the morning after breakfast we were allowed outside on the balcony to get some sun. I'm reading my pharmacology book and this one bitch nurse sees it and says 'I don't think that's appropriate reading material for detox'. Well sure enough, half an hour later when it's time for my meds they confiscate my books. I was so angry, first I get treated like shit and now I don't have my books so the only thing for me to do while I'm in rehab is sit around and listen to everyone else there talk about how much they want to get high and how when they get out they are going to have low tolerances and be able to get high as fuck again. Basically the only conversation there was reminiscing about drugs. Not a healthy environment for getting clean, am I right?

So straight after they confiscated my books, I use my phone card and make a call to my brother and ask him to count my clonazepam stash. I do some quick calculations and figure out I just have enough to taper off over two weeks. I then go to the nurses desk and tell them I'm checking out. They say, 'oh but you will have a seizure, etc...' and I say 'listen, you've treated me like shit, you've taken my books which were MEDICAL TEXTBOOKS NOT BOOKS ON HOW TO GET HIGH and I have access to enough benzos on the outside to taper myself off!' They then quietly gave me all my belongings back and let me go. I got picked up, went home, dosed some clonazepam and then did a CWE to relax myself.

So that's the story of my one day in rehab. I tapered off over two weeks using clonazepam, it was tough but I got through it because I needed to get back to work and I needed to get clean. I won't go in to the bullshit I did while addicted to Xanax though, I'm ashamed enough of that already.

 

[bobbydarren]

I've already come off the Xanax, that was a couple of months or so ago I finally got off it. \

That's a very interesting and insightful story.

Just as a matter of interest, how many mg of xanax were you taking to get physically addicted?
Because I've been cut off my supply and because I have a phobia of the dr's I see, who constantly treat me with distrust I only take 1 2mg bar a night for sleep every night as I won't go back for real sleeping tablets. Do you reckon i'm going to get major withdrawl when I run out or is 2mg per 24 hours pretty mild compared to what you were taking?

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ How long had you been taking them for? 2mg won't be that bad, I'd say you will probably get rebound anxiety and insomnia and shakes. Depends how long you've been on them.

I was taking between 16-20mg of alprazolam a day, sometimes more.

 

[TripppAR]

That's really fucked up man... I can only imagine the theft, abuse, just general fucked upness that comes with that type of use ! :-( !!

I know i do fucked up shit and turn into a fucking clepto when im on a xanax binge... you DONT GIVE A FUCK about ANYTHING. And that is dangerous..

 

[pinkanga]

Crazy story Mr Blonde. Least it proved that you can take care of yourself in that regard (assuming you have the necessary shit to taper).

@bobbydarren Id say youll be right. Youre more just psychologically dependent on the nightly bar which is what will probably cause the most stress. Order some melatonin and 5-htp online and replace it with that. (PM me if you want to know the site I use... great prices and super fast shipping for both products). Melatonin and 5-htp are great for sleep and together work even better. The site I buy from has triple strength melatonin (10mg)....

All the local vendors sell fuckin useless homeopathic crap.

 

[tr3jo]

^ I managed to get diazepam from my regular doctor instead of temazepam for sleeping when I said that I found temazepam ineffective for sleeping. He initially prescribed it for 'detoxing' off cannabis though.

HOLD UP! Are you telling me If i tell my doc I want to quit smoking marijuana theres a high chance hes gonna prescribe me some temazepam? Interesting....

 

[brighton]

^ unlikely! if only it was that easy!

 

[darkh]

Not a huge fan of benzos, feels like im drunk and i dont like being drunk unless im wasted at a party. swim will stick to the downers and ocasional blo. Are the WD's that bad?

 

[Divine Moments]

^ Welcome to Bluelight darkh - we don't use the acronym SWIM around here (if you do, you'll probably get a bunch of people making comments like 'you shouldnt swim on benzos that shits dangerous').

Yes the withdrawals are horrible, one of the worst of any drug. Unlike most other withdrawals, they can also be fatal. For more info search Bluelight, check Erowid, or there's a handy wikipedia page with some info

 

[Mr Blonde]

if you do, you'll probably get a bunch of people making comments like 'you shouldnt swim on benzos that shits dangerous'

Or my old meme favorite, 'No SWIMMING - Pools closed due to AIDS'.

Unlike what some other forums will insist on, use of SWIM offers no legal protection to you and the best thing is to just not make posts that are incriminating. Hence why we don't have discussion of synthesis or posts about being in possession of large amounts of substances. Besides, law enforcement isn't really interested in following up on someone on the internet posting that they don't really like benzodiazepines and prefer other drugs. Just be sensible about what you post and you will be right as rain.

Not a huge fan of benzos, feels like im drunk and i dont like being drunk unless im wasted at a party. swim will stick to the downers and ocasional blo. Are the WD's that bad?

That's probably a good thing; when I first used benzodiazepines I didn't enjoy them that much either but apparently for me they were an acquired taste. Yes, the WD is absolutely awful and I didn't even experience cold turkey WD. I tapered too rapidly and with bigger dose jumps then I should have and experienced a lot shakes, anxiety, dissociation and a complete inability to function properly in life. Going cold turkey off benzodiazepines can be fatal, as Divine said. It is similar to delirium tremens from alcohol withdrawal; delirium and seizures that can be fatal. There are also long term problems after having been addicted; memory problems, long term anxiety and stress issues... I don't drink anymore but have heard from former benzo addicts who did try drinking again that it caused a worsening of the long term problems they experienced already. For me personally, so far I have experienced a greatly reduced resistance to stress, a greatly increased anxiety response to situations that would normally only make me somewhat edgy, motivation problems, memory problems and a worsening of my pre-existing essential tremor. I may have to go back on propranolol to treat the shakes as they are very noticeable and affect my ability to write and play guitar properly.

Throughout this thread there has been a tendency for posts that lean towards the 'I'm really fucked up right now/going to get fucked up/did this much' type of discussion, and I'll be honest that I have been part of this especially when I was using benzodiazepine drugs. Hopefully by posting my story in here and having more posts like this we can avoid that thing and have the thread be more HR oriented.... though there is definitely room for discussion of the benefits of using these substances.

 

[pinkanga]

Itsl all about attribution.... as a psych major I can tell you that if you can successfully attribute your psychological distress to external stimuli such as "Im feeling like total shit, am doubting who I am, and am worried that I may never enjoy anything again ever" (benzo users, you know what Im talking about ), "but I know this state is self-imposed, exaggerated, transitory and not going to persist for the rest of my life, and is due to rebound anxiety that is basically bullshit", then you should be able to better handle it.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ That's good advice there comrade, and a couple of MXE introspective experiences have really had me considering my drug use and how I need to alter it to be healthy again and and how I should change my mind set so that I can get things back in order, especially regarding the stress and anxiety levels. The shakes and memory issues though... I need to find a way to fix those. Propranolol again for the shakes hopefully, but I don't know how to fix my memory issues.

 

[pinkanga]

but I don't know how to fix my memory issues.

Try to forget about 'em.