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CE&P social thread: why do the people I disagree with hate freedom so much?

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Shrooms00087 said:
I agree with just one minor deviation. Banks usefulness is null without mega-corporations, energy corporations, public relations, medicine, and church (etc). It's a whole tapestry of inter-beneficiaries are of complexity. Thus, capitalism and all it's lawlessness must cease to exist, entirely.
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capitalism, or government altogether? Because socialism is basically turning the government into a giant business "for the good of all".

I think we're already seeing the shift of government into business. Government and business should be separate. The problem IS that they have been intertwined. Hence all these private prisons, defense contractors, and "too big to fail", "for the good of all", now government protects shady greedy mega-businesses. I don't see how socialism would lead to any improvement. ...Unless... you like being a slave to "the man", and the multi-national mega-corps.
 
There are complications with abolishing hierarchy without generations of embedded egalitarian beliefs (to undo the "individualistic" raping of hierarchy) things like science, upkeep of nuclear arms and power etc. To abolish this capitalism you're right, it shouldn't take the form of socialism. It should take the form of communism. Of course communism in just one country won't do the trick (although nuclear weapons is an added benefit) and it should be first in the most advanced nations (yes, yes, a play off Marx) and hopefully with more spirit from Leftists/intellectuals that failed Russia and Germany. Many complications will come from abolishing capital but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be the path forward. Just like after WWII most aristocrats maintained wealth, maintained forms of hierarchy and kinship (although this time further displaced from the public consciousness), and then a new breed of aristocrats entered the field (with a varying degree of lime light). I believe, communism, socialism, and anarchism. To destroy the roots, to let people experience (for the first time) egalitarian modes, and then let them upkeep it themselves.

"As with the old Christians, these late conversions carry the same basic message: that we have spent our lives rebelling vainly against what, deep within us, we knew all the time to be the truth. So, when even a great anti-communist like Kravchenko can in a certain sense return to his faith, our message today should be: do not be afraid, join us, come back! You've had your anti-communist fun, and you are pardoned for it -- time to get serious once again!"
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Zizek.
 
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The US just cut their funding to UNESCO because they acknowledged the Palestinian State..... Another strike against Obama in my eyes. Why we continue to funnel billions into Israel (something the majority of Americans do not support) while tarnishing our reputation in the international community and de-funding important organizations like UNESCO is beyond me, its blatant pandering to pro Israeli elites.
 
*reporting from Occupy Fort Wayne headquarters* %)

i'll post more when i have gloves... the police banned us from having space heaters ("fire hazard") and cut off the water (5min bike or car ride to take a shit). it's pretty cold.

only about 8 people are currently camped out overnight. local media has been very unfriendly...

if even i'm occupying, none of you have an excuse to keep occupying your couches and watching protesters on TV ;)
 
Care said:
Why we continue to funnel billions into Israel (something the majority of Americans do not support)...
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my brief, unscientific study of that issue suggests the opposite. can you provide a pointer or two to back up your claim? thanks.

alasdair
 
qwe said:
*reporting from Occupy Fort Wayne headquarters* %)

i'll post more when i have gloves... the police banned us from having space heaters ("fire hazard") and cut off the water (5min bike or car ride to take a shit). it's pretty cold.

only about 8 people are currently camped out overnight. local media has been very unfriendly...

if even i'm occupying, none of you have an excuse to keep occupying your couches and watching protesters on TV ;)
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Occupy Tampa has been fairly warm :P

Your numbers will grow, OT started out with just a handful of people staying overnight and now there are dozens. It seems to be the case at every occupation I hear about.

How far along is OFW?
 
alasdairm said:
my brief, unscientific study of that issue suggests the opposite. can you provide a pointer or two to back up your claim? thanks.

alasdair
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I suppose there has never been a poll asking Americans if they support sending Israel billions of dollars every year, so ill have to partially retract that , even though it seems like the answer should be a no-brainier to me.

I will say though that the way public opinion polls are worded make a huge difference. Asking people if they support Israel over Palestine is very different than asking if they support sending billion of dollars to Israel. Especially since a good portion of our population think that a free Israel means Jesus is going to come back and take them and all their friends to heaven in their lifetimes.
 
@Care and Alasdairm: I'm sure the answer to this question can be found in......drumroll please........The Israel Lobby by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt!

@qwe: concerning "occupying couches." Please arrange for a leave of absence from my part-time work, find somebody to take care of my dog (who can bark at strangers for days on end, so he won't get along great at a "protest"), help me find a black and white Khafiyeh because Urban Outfitters doesn't sell them anymore and get your ass over here and pick me up! (I'm probably located about a 14 hour drive away from the nearest protest)
I've already got my helmet, a vapor-proof respirator, eye protection, and placard with anti-semetic slogans on it; so other than the limiting factors mentioned above - I'm ready to Roll!

P.S. alasdair, are your parents from the U.K.? If not, how are you the only guy in the US with the name Alasdair?
 
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numbers during peak protests matter too, mfr. you don't have to camp out there, you could spend 1-2 hours of your day participating in ground-up democracy. OWS is for people with and without jobs...
 
Okay, read about keffiyehs: A headcovering worn by some semitic people, including Palestinians, who favor a black-and-white checkered pattern. Due to the association with Palestinians, wearing one causes accusations of anti-semitism.

Also, just to add to the LOLs, college kids and hipsters seem to think its fashionable to wear the same balck-and-white checkered keffiyehs as a scarf. This causes some people to throw a hissy fit about anti-semitism.

Judging from the bar crowd around where I live, a keffiyeh is probably about as significant as a brown shirt among the college age crowd.

#firstworldproblems

Also looked at Michelle Malkin, the writer in MFR's link. She's a freaking idiot.
 
Escher's Waterfall said:
Also looked at Michelle Malkin, the writer in MFR's link. She's a freaking idiot.
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It seems that Conservative pundits are chosen primarily based on looks and ability to be bitchy. Ann Coulter is the obvious exception, being so bitchy that she gets away with a horrendous appearance.

Case in point: Andrea Tantaros
 
qwe said:
numbers during peak protests matter too, mfr. you don't have to camp out there, you could spend 1-2 hours of your day participating in ground-up democracy. OWS is for people with and without jobs...
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Yeah your right qwe, and I'm glad you even think some crazy fucker like me should be there LOL! But, right now getting to one would be some trouble, but the movement looks good. I'd love to be at the mother of them all in NYC - good times indeed!
Good luck with yours and try to stay warm.
 
some people think that ann colture actually was born sexless and one of those women highly prized for prostitution purposes etc etc because she has no sex organs to make her pregnant, but she doesn't look like so much like a man as other people with the same disorder. i can't think of what it's called now, but i laughed imagining people thinking about her vagina with no uterus and/or ovaries.
 
Turner syndrome (the most common genotype being monosomal x chromosomes in all cells)...her visual phenotype is way atypical for the disorder though. I say that she's a liberal doing some EPIC trolling... :P

ebola
 
I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America. The majority raises formidable barriers around the liberty of opinion; within these barriers, an author may write what he pleases, but woe to him if he goes beyond them.
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Alexis de Toqueville, Democracy in America
(1835 A.D.)
 
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