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Is it possible?

Dysphoric

Dysphoric

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
392
This is all hypothetical.

Is it possible to have a drug that has Amphetamine like effects without a rebound effect or being neurotoxic? If so, how would it work exactly? I doubt it would be a releasing Agent
or a Re-Uptake inhibitor. So... What would be the best way for it to work (In theory of course)?

I'm just really curious, because I would really love to see a drug with Amphetamine like effects without a lot of its negatives. It would be a very miraculous drug for society for many reasons.

Thoughts?
 
What a pipe dream. If such a possibility was available they would have already exploited it for the troops working overseas much like Japan did when they unleashed the plague that is methamphetamine on the world during the war. EVERYTHING has a consequence. There is no such thing as a free ride.
 
not with current technology. One would need somehow recalibrate the brain to compensate for all neural imbalances that DA/NE release leaves in its wake. Key would be abolition of excess NE concentration and activity, replenishment of vesicular and intercellular DA, prevention of receptor downregulation, repair of denatured transporters, protection of tyrosine hydroxylase function, and metabolism of free-radicals caused by the breakdown of monoamines and the drug itself.

And then there are likely neural processes of which we have nearly no understanding yet of which we'd need take an account.

ebola
 
The main thing that I'm interested in is the euphoria and motivation that comes along with Amphetamines. Mainly the effects caused by Dopamine release and partially Serotonin release?

Is it even possible just to do those two things without any negatives (Comedown/Neurotoxicity)?
 
No. Even Dopamine reuptake-inhibitors like Ritalin/methylphenidate have a comedown.

Really this question is asking "Is there a performance/mood enhancing substance with absolutely no downsides?" Answer: no.
 
To further illuminate this... its like asking to buy a house but never have to pay for it. I think that if/when pharmacology gets to that point they would much rather make a chemical to turn us all into mindless drones that just do whatever they (being the rich/governing bodies) want. Like I said before, its a pipe dream. Everything has a consequence. To not pay that consequence would disrupt the very fabric of the universe. You are asking for a drug that you can take indefinitely and have no chance of dying. This defies the very laws of the universe. It just can't happen. If it ever does then you can rest assured that the destruction of the world as we know it is coming soon behind it.
 
sekio said:
No. Even Dopamine reuptake-inhibitors like Ritalin/methylphenidate have a comedown.

Really this question is asking "Is there a performance/mood enhancing substance with absolutely no downsides?" Answer: no.
Click to expand...


The first part is obvious...


I'm not asking "is there". I'm asking with what we know so far, "is it possible"? I can understand if they have side effects such as, Nausea, headaches, etc... I'm asking specifically if it's possible to get rid of the rebound effect that happens after a lot of psychotropic substances wears off, as well as damage/wear and tear.
 
It depends on what we mean by "possible". At some point, we'll be able to manipulate neurology to as fine a grain as is desired, with truly robust understanding of these interventions' effects. We'll soon after be able to choose at will the material substrate of the 'mental'. But for now? We have only rudimentary, non-specific pharmacological tools and very little neurological understanding.

'Magic' drugs are a ways away.

ebola
 
InfaredLighter does bring up a interesting new avenue, however too little is known about that class of drugs for any application to human usage as far as safety or even effects, suppose it mainly targets PNS sympathetic ganglions... yikes!

However, looking at drugs such as modafinil, bupropion, and caffeine it does seem to be a distinct possibility to create mild stimulants which are safe for chronic use. However, I'm extremely doubtful that anything as powerful as amphetamine or classical DRI's will ever reach that point without combining them with other agents.

But, this provides me a opportunity to segway into a blurb about possible new stimulant targets. Seeing as most classical stimulants mainly increase catecholamine concentrations in the synaptic cleft via actions on the DAT and NET proteins and the well characterized effects and side effects of this mechanism of action, I feel that the next generation of stimulants will have to incorporate other targets. Sticking to the stimulant class and avoiding the ill defined nootropics, it seems that orexins, CART receptors, central NAChR ligands, TAAR ligands, MGluR/ ionotropic Glu receptors, gap junction enhancers, glycogen synthase kinase modulators (kind of a pipe dream but imagine hypomania in a pill if it works out), and GABA modulating agents all seem to be targets to watch in the coming years.

One particular class I have high hopes for is type 1 MGluR partial agonists, as it seems to be one of the more central pieces in stimulant dependence and is currently the target of a large amount of research relating to cocaine addiction. I can see several new "stimulant like" performance enhancing drugs coming through legitimate channels in the next decade due to companies realizing the tremendous off-label market for low-abuse potential stimulants.
 
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i know its not the class of drugs you're referring to, but isn't there an opioid that doesn't produce tolerance? i can't remember more details at the moment, hopefully someone else will chime in. looking at the action of that drug could give some clues for your question.
 
I would just like to say that peptides hold alot of promise for the pharma industry.

Edit: To be more specific, think something along the lines of how dermorphin is to traditional opioids.

Edit 2: I think this is what thenightwatch was wanting to point to, boom
 
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Nagelfar said:
The field of "epigenetics" may one day be able to 'reset' tolerance for most any kind of drug. This may not be too far off into the future.
Click to expand...

8o

That would be amazing!

Than I'd be able to start taking my Desoxyn again!

Sources?!
 
If you're interested the epigenetic approach, check out my thread "amphetamine neurotoxicity and tolerance reduction/prevention" I've seen some decent results with curcumin but its not perfect.
 
Epsilon Alpha said:
If you're interested the epigenetic approach, check out my thread "amphetamine neurotoxicity and tolerance reduction/prevention" I've seen some decent results with curcumin but its not perfect.
Click to expand...

What exactly does it do? I looked it up. I'm kind of impatient ATM. Can you TL;DR it for me? I've checked out your thread and visited the first link and found some interesting info.

Also, I looked up Epigenetics and yet again I can't really stay focused on it. If you could be so kind, could you also simplify it for me...

Damn caffeine making my brain scattered... 8(

However, I did stumble upon this. http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/what-about-curcumin-110553/

Is the OP correct?




Also, my mom happens to have capsules of it for it's Anti-inflammatory benefit.

It's from Longevity Medical Clinic

It contains the following;
-Turmeric Root Extract (Curcuma longa) 665mg*
95% Curcaminoids (containing Curcumin, Demethoxycurcumin and Bisdemethoxycurcumin)

So...?
 
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Modafinil is a good one, it can defer the effects of sleep deprivation it seems... but it is not really a true stimulant.
But it works great for me and I cannot really think of any downsides I ever had. Perhaps the possibility of a paradoxical effect where you feel like going to sleep instead of the opposite. Some people can get this quite frequently while others don't seem to run into that problem.
 
Solipsis said:
Modafinil is a good one, it can defer the effects of sleep deprivation it seems... but it is not really a true stimulant.
But it works great for me and I cannot really think of any downsides I ever had. Perhaps the possibility of a paradoxical effect where you feel like going to sleep instead of the opposite. Some people can get this quite frequently while others don't seem to run into that problem.
Click to expand...

I was actually just thinking about getting myself a script for Provigil. How did you get it? They only prescribe it for sleep type issues. I might just say I have some type of day time fatigue. It said to be good for AD(H)D and possibly depression? I don't have bad depression, but I sure would love to take a good mood lifter, specifically stimulants.

How does it feel psychologically? Is it a good mood brightener? I know that it's a Dopamine Re-Uptake Inhibitor. Does it also work with Serotonin? I could just look it up myself, but whatever...

Anyways how is it effective wise? Motivation, mood, etc...?

Thanks in advanced!
 
Dysphoric said:
What exactly does it do? I looked it up. I'm kind of impatient ATM. Can you TL;DR it for me? I've checked out your thread and visited the first link and found some interesting info.

Also, I looked up Epigenetics and yet again I can't really stay focused on it. If you could be so kind, could you also simplify it for me...

Damn caffeine making my brain scattered... 8(

However, I did stumble upon this. http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/what-about-curcumin-110553/

Is the OP correct?

Also, my mom happens to have capsules of it for it's Anti-inflammatory benefit.

It's from Longevity Medical Clinic

It contains the following;
-Turmeric Root Extract (Curcuma longa) 665mg*
95% Curcaminoids (containing Curcumin, Demethoxycurcumin and Bisdemethoxycurcumin)

So...?
Click to expand...

In a nutshell curcumin hits a ton of biological targets including ones that make modifications to your DNA to effect gene expression (epigenetics). It appears that a good chunk of long term drug tolerance is due to these changes, so inhibiting the mechanisms that maintain them may be of some benefit. I've gotten about 20 anecdotes now from people using this for stimulant tolerance and it seems like about 1/3 to 1/2 of them see significant reductions in tolerance after taking a tolerance break or significantly reducing their dosage while taking curcumin at 500-2500mg per day (formulations may have a big role in the dosage range).

It also potentiates the living hell out of stimulants so be wary of that when dosing. If you want to try this method it seems to take a few weeks of steady dosing and exercise to get the best results if it does work for you.
 
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