It?s gotten insanely toxic in CE&P. Please read and discuss in a civil manner

[zephyr]

Mate I know its hard to take people attacking you.

Its hard on anyone and addressing issues is hard to do without hurting people unintentionally.

Why do you think I went to SG in the first place?

Theres no way of talking to staff or any other bluelighter to tell them what they are doing is wrong without pissing them off.

So yes you are part of the problem, you are not THE problem, its a problem thats never going to be totally fixed, just maintained so the future bl is a better place.

The thing that you can do to help is to not just automatically spring to the defense of your fellow staff just because they are staff. Its making you an enemy and us an enemy. We arent goddammit, we are all here because we want to be.

What seems to be happening currently is the lack of input and head to head discussion with EVERYONE.

Its a good thing youre here and willing to talk so thankyou, Im sure you can encourage others who would be happy to talk in staff to be capable of talking here where it matters.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I like how TLB's note pointed out that is it senior staff's job to listen to the moderators

 

[Droppersneck]

Ya I’m not attacking anyone, nor do I have an agenda. Other than to make CEP not die like the last forum I cared about, the lounge. I’ll give it as simply as I can;
> CEP traffic is driven by opposing view points IE conservatives.
>personal bias and a different standard for conservative posters is running them off
>no conservative posters and CEP is a circle jerk where traffic is low

I reckon some may want a circle jerk, but im simply trying to ‘be the change’. This is all in good faith and mainly bc this place reminds me of some of my buddies that are gone.

 

[Jabberwocky]

How do you suggest we avoid running posters off when they post comments that break the User Agreement?

Here are an example from today of what I'm referring to:

Hmmm? My reply just disappeared. Odd, that.
I will try again. And staying on topic, as not to offend anyone with "bs conspiracy theories".

So...does anyone else think that it's a bad idea to "rape " someone by ordering them to perform oral sex on you? I am able to see potential problems with it. A toothy blow job at the very least. I mean seriously....it's such a self degrading act.

I did see a movie in which someone did this exact thing. Although, he took the precaution of knocking the person's teeth out first.

The biggest opportunity to improve CE&P has to do with how we deal with members who make it really hard for staff to do their job, ostensibly because they feel like others don't approve of their brand of politics.

Instead of engaging in a "civil" discussion, their comments become increasingly combative. Generally their posts don't include BLUA violations as egregious as my example here, but there tends to be a clear and persistent pattern of escalation.

How do people suggest we deal with these users? This seems to be the heart of the problem if complaints aren't with posts that obviously break the User Agreement.

 

[zephyr]

Tpd hopefully other blrs can chime in and help out and this thread can have as many voices as possible.

Ill answer later and not postwhore as thats counterproductive as well, theres people on line lurking so speak up




Its a little more complex than just a user agreement and following a system which could be operated by a bot as it is, if Im not gonna crash out Ill go back and see how things were done by others . The blua hasnt changed much and theres always been potential breaches- how did bl cope with that for a long time without resorting to all these bans/ unapproval/ alleged mod helicopter parenting?

Its driving people away, clearly so alternatives are needed if input is wanted.


Theres heaps of people around and can advise, lakia tried to help me but I didnt listen so theres that too. Are mods prepared to listen? Doesnt seem like they are in cep. Theres 4 of them and Tath seemed like he would avoid infractions unless no choice , he can post for himself though as maybe hes changed.




EDIT That post does not break the blua , not at all. So I cant see what the problem is with that post.

What blua specifically?

Seems like it was removed as mod not like it which is not a reason to remove it.

Mods in cep are making it hard on themselves by behaving as they are, analysing every person and asuming their intent and finding any reason at all to drive them out.

Its pretty obvious that theres not much time wasting going on, the 2 individual mods are online a hell of a lot with not much traffic.

I put it to them that their actions are not in line with the blua or in the spirit of community growth.

So an option would be to address our concerns, change like you expect everyone else to or maybe its them that should leave staff and just contribute like they did before.

 

[Droppersneck]

How do you suggest we avoid running posters off when they post comments that break the User Agreement?

Here are an example from today of what I'm referring to:



The biggest opportunity to improve CE&P has to do with how we deal with members who make it really hard for staff to do their job, ostensibly because they feel like others don't approve of their brand of politics.

Instead of engaging in a "civil" discussion, their comments become increasingly combative. Generally their posts don't include BLUA violations as egregious as my example here, but there tends to be a clear and persistent pattern of escalation.

How do people suggest we deal with these users? This seems to be the heart of the problem if complaints aren't with posts that obviously break the User Agreement.

Never seen the weird poster you posted above before, I don’t think that represents cep. All I’m saying is if you guys want to hold insane sjw standards like ‘being against illegal immigration is hate speech’, ‘being for voter ID is racist’, ‘using unfavorable statistics is problematic’, and the list goes on to infinity.. at least add it some sort of list of rules instead of slowely arbitrarily enforcing rules against posters that hold these beliefs. Makes for less alienation and far less drama, to say things haven’t changed since 2016 is simply dishonest. Let’s all move on, one way or the other.

 

[zephyr]

I like how TLB's note pointed out that is it senior staff's job to listen to the moderators

Ok I'll address this and offer some suggestions to you and CFC who from recollection is also senior mod of cep (is this correct?).

Ok. I dont know why you like this particular piece of that very useful post TLB laid down, it gives the impression that you are not actually really that interested in anything anyone besides them has to say. That is very discouraging and maybe approaching you is a waste of my time, anyones time but day off so whatever.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here despite this and hope you come to the party.

What can you do to resolve complaints about the current moderators in cep?

1) There are 4 mods listed and only 2 are active so as a senior moderator can you address this to make sure the mod spots are all in use? To be honest its not helping not having the balance and perspective of all four.

At what point do you say to mods that they arent pullinf their weight and then need to be replaced? Its a volunteer position, has to be in use and if they cant anymore then fine, maybe get another staff member to fill in and be seen to fill in until they return or just replaced.

2) Even if you are not that interested in the content or subject matter of every thread, I suggest you read them anyway and see for yourself what is the pattern of behaviour in them. Its better that way than to just get involved remotely when theres reported posts or complaints from other blrs. Dont take any one persons word as verbatim and keep an eye on everyone. That way you can step in and nudge mods quietly when they are out of line themselves. It happens, their actions are questionable right now but maybe they just dont get told.

3) Instead of unapproving posts like your example try responding and pointing out the issue. Folks who wander in and are not regulars are the people you can work with to make cep grow. Being approachable and helpful isnt that hard is it?

4) If the above suggestion is beyond the ability of the current active mods then Im pretty sure that yourself and CFC can help them since you both are able to converse quite well here and across the board.

5) Not really a suggestion but a thank you for responding to this, some of your points are hard to digest as it seems you are just dismissing anything put to you as rubbish. Dropperz has shot himself in the foot by being a reddit troll and he knows it. Priest is crew and dont know the guy but his arguments are perfectly valid. I suppose he would have to make suggestions again or just point out hes tried many times and just hit the wall.

As for me and my actions here been seen like you see them- I kinda get it but regret not much at all. Ill pm you tomorrow

 

[swilow]

I thought this thread concluded pretty neatly after CFC's graph. The metric by which you judge the success of a web forum is certainly not the level of welcome felt by a small group of people who have trolled the fuck our of it both on and offsite for literally years. Its the amount of posts, and whether they are increasing or not. Of course, a number of factors contribute to that kind of thing over the last year, from the current interest in politics due to Trump, to the stricter/harsher penalty system Bluelight adopted at roughly a similar time (I think, I am ready to stand corrected there) but it isn't really fair to simply dismiss these numbers. Maybe some things are being done well?

Anyway, I had avoided weighing in earlier because I had waited to see if anything more substantial than a bunch of vague allusions had been posted but, as with the other 3-4 iterations of effectively the same topic, not much really has been. If the problem is as widespread as I am hearing, there really shouldn't be any difficulty in linking to some examples of staff infracting or banning for opinions and not content or conduct. Without this, its hard to not judge the intentions of the people participating as (once again) insincere. It seems like a certain bias of their own is playing out.

There seems to be a common and unfortunate perception that because the current mod team are left-wing, that we are going to 'favour' people on our own side but I've personally had to infract people from both sides of the political spectrum, including ex-, and current, staff. I can understand how there could be suspicion of bias, and I can see how it might feel like bias if you're conservative and get an infraction for calling someone a "fucking cunt" or whatever by a left wing mod. I'm not sure how we can shift this perception, or counter it: I'm open to suggestions though.

I know I won't be believed, but I promise you guys that we aren't trying to censor conservative/right-wing views, and the idea that we are is one that I would love to be able to change; I agree with Droppersneck that dissenting opinions are the key to creating discussion, and that is literally the whole point of this place so anything that discourages it is of course undesirable; but there is simply zero tolerance for any sort of abusive language, or any racist/bigoted/sexist/whatever language. From both sides. I don't know, it doesn't seem like that onerous a burden under which to have a discussion.

As I've said before, if you are unsure about whether to post something or want clarification about a staff decision, please (calmly) PM one of us and we can discuss it. If you see something that you don't like or think breaks the rules, report it or PM us. We are willing and open to listening, nothing is set in stone. We aren't perfect, we can always improve but the community needs to help in this respect too.

Let?s all move on, one way or the other.

I agree

 

[Droppersneck]

I thought this thread concluded pretty neatly after CFC's graph. The metric by which you judge the success of a web forum is certainly not the level of welcome felt by a small group of people who have trolled the fuck our of it both on and offsite for literally years. Its the amount of posts, and whether they are increasing or not. Of course, a number of factors contribute to that kind of thing over the last year, from the current interest in politics due to Trump, to the stricter/harsher penalty system Bluelight adopted at roughly a similar time (I think, I am ready to stand corrected there) but it isn't really fair to simply dismiss these numbers. Maybe some things are being done well?

Anyway, I had avoided weighing in earlier because I had waited to see if anything more substantial than a bunch of vague allusions had been posted but, as with the other 3-4 iterations of effectively the same topic, not much really has been. If the problem is as widespread as I am hearing, there really shouldn't be any difficulty in linking to some examples of staff infracting or banning for opinions and not content or conduct. Without this, its hard to not judge the intentions of the people participating as (once again) insincere. It seems like a certain bias of their own is playing out.

There seems to be a common and unfortunate perception that because the current mod team are left-wing, that we are going to 'favour' people on our own side but I've personally had to infract people from both sides of the political spectrum, including ex-, and current, staff. I can understand how there could be suspicion of bias, and I can see how it might feel like bias if you're conservative and get an infraction for calling someone a "fucking cunt" or whatever by a left wing mod. I'm not sure how we can shift this perception, or counter it: I'm open to suggestions though.

I know I won't be believed, but I promise you guys that we aren't trying to censor conservative/right-wing views, and the idea that we are is one that I would love to be able to change; I agree with Droppersneck that dissenting opinions are the key to creating discussion, and that is literally the whole point of this place so anything that discourages it is of course undesirable; but there is simply zero tolerance for any sort of abusive language, or any racist/bigoted/sexist/whatever language. From both sides. I don't know, it doesn't seem like that onerous a burden under which to have a discussion.

As I've said before, if you are unsure about whether to post something or want clarification about a staff decision, please (calmly) PM one of us and we can discuss it. If you see something that you don't like or think breaks the rules, report it or PM us. We are willing and open to listening, nothing is set in stone. We aren't perfect, we can always improve but the community needs to help in this respect too.



I agree

We need to hear from jgrimez when he comes off ban on the 17th. Then this can be concluded imo. After all much of that traffic is the result of his and a few others debate. He’s probably gotten the most unfavorable shake since he argues his points so effectively and sites them. Clearly it gets under people’s skin so they infract him for and throw ad Homs freely. That’s just my experience, plenty of stuff I’ve wanted to report, but know the report button is a quick way to get infracted. Let’s hear him out, and then hopefully we can move on.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Its driving people away, clearly so alternatives are needed if input is wanted.


...



EDIT That post does not break the blua , not at all. So I cant see what the problem is with that post.

To clear up some mistaken assumptions: staff is (a) open to moving forward with the situation in CE&P, (b) working to continue moving forward with the situation in CE&P, and (c) are not as thrilled as some make them out to seem with it as things stand right now.

The post above was infracted for content that was a clause (4) violation. Would you like to argue that the above post does not victimize, harass, degrade, or intimidate an individual or group of individuals?

It's a lot easier to complain about how CE&P is being run when someone isn't taking any responsibility to help run it or tone down the hostility.

Never seen the weird poster you posted above before, I don’t think that represents cep. All I’m saying is if you guys want to hold insane sjw standards like ‘being against illegal immigration is hate speech’, ‘being for voter ID is racist’, ‘using unfavorable statistics is problematic’, and the list goes on to infinity.. at least add it some sort of list of rules instead of slowely arbitrarily enforcing rules against posters that hold these beliefs. Makes for less alienation and far less drama, to say things haven’t changed since 2016 is simply dishonest. Let’s all move on, one way or the other.

Where are these sjw standards you speak of? I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone violated because "being against illegal immigration is hate speech," etc. Those are not rules and are not enforceable.

I guess I'll have to wait for you to wait for someone with a computer to provide examples of all these abuses you keep referencing without referencing in CE&P. That's some impressive dharma combat.

Ok I'll address this and offer some suggestions to you and CFC who from recollection is also senior mod of cep (is this correct?).

Ok. I dont know why you like this particular piece of that very useful post TLB laid down, it gives the impression that you are not actually really that interested in anything anyone besides them has to say. That is very discouraging and maybe approaching you is a waste of my time, anyones time but day off so whatever.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here despite this and hope you come to the party.

What can you do to resolve complaints about the current moderators in cep?

1) There are 4 mods listed and only 2 are active so as a senior moderator can you address this to make sure the mod spots are all in use? To be honest its not helping not having the balance and perspective of all four.

At what point do you say to mods that they arent pullinf their weight and then need to be replaced? Its a volunteer position, has to be in use and if they cant anymore then fine, maybe get another staff member to fill in and be seen to fill in until they return or just replaced.

2) Even if you are not that interested in the content or subject matter of every thread, I suggest you read them anyway and see for yourself what is the pattern of behaviour in them. Its better that way than to just get involved remotely when theres reported posts or complaints from other blrs. Dont take any one persons word as verbatim and keep an eye on everyone. That way you can step in and nudge mods quietly when they are out of line themselves. It happens, their actions are questionable right now but maybe they just dont get told.

3) Instead of unapproving posts like your example try responding and pointing out the issue. Folks who wander in and are not regulars are the people you can work with to make cep grow. Being approachable and helpful isnt that hard is it?

4) If the above suggestion is beyond the ability of the current active mods then Im pretty sure that yourself and CFC can help them since you both are able to converse quite well here and across the board.

5) Not really a suggestion but a thank you for responding to this, some of your points are hard to digest as it seems you are just dismissing anything put to you as rubbish. Dropperz has shot himself in the foot by being a reddit troll and he knows it. Priest is crew and dont know the guy but his arguments are perfectly valid. I suppose he would have to make suggestions again or just point out hes tried many times and just hit the wall.

As for me and my actions here been seen like you see them- I kinda get it but regret not much at all. Ill pm you tomorrow

I highlighted the one point that you made that sounds like a really good idea for us to work on. Regarding staff going MIA, that is one of the things being addressed right now, finding other people to bring onboard to help run CE&P.

I singled out the point about smods listening to mods because it is very germane to my role as a smod. If the people who have stuck around and are currently picking up the slack in CE&P, it's my role to listen to them regardless of anyone's political leanings. I don't get the sense anyone complaining in this thread has even tried to listen to swilow or cduggles or support them in any significant when it comes to their role as CE&P mods.

Complaining is a lot easier I guess.

Yesterday, I made a point of responding in kind to comments made in this thread. Someone was hostile and venting their frustration? I was happy to vent right back. Someone suggested something that might be helpful, I expressed my gratitude and pointed out commonality.

Perhaps I'll try a different approach today.

We need to hear from jgrimez when he comes off ban on the 17th. Then this can be concluded imo. After all much of that traffic is the result of his and a few others debate. He’s probably gotten the most unfavorable shake since he argues his points so effectively and sites them. Clearly it gets under people’s skin so they infract him for and throw ad Homs freely. That’s just my experience, plenty of stuff I’ve wanted to report, but know the report button is a quick way to get infracted. Let’s hear him out, and then hopefully we can move on.

JGrimez is a perfect example of why it is so hard to mod CE&P right now.

He is disruptive or ignores forum guidelines. He is warned or infracted. He then escalates. The cycle continues. Eventually he gets banned. He continues where he left off without changing much about how he posts. Then he steps over the line with CE&P staff and gets banned again. And here we are.

It will be interesting to see what he contributions to this thread when his ban ends.

Theres no way of talking to staff or any other bluelighter to tell them what they are doing is wrong without pissing them off.

As someone much wiser than me once said, "Yes, there is. It's just that some people aren't very good at it."

 

[etnies]

Fresh in from a 6 month ban

Also, there's literally no point of this thread, how do you think it's going to turn out? At this point it's just a left wing circle jerk. If you have a different opinion they label a "troll" delete your posts and then ban.

Even though certain admins and moderators will now claim or post in this thread and elsewhere, "that there's no political bias at all here..." it is true that if you post anything that certain people do not agree with that your post or threads will be edited, deleted, or you will get warned/infractions/banned, called racist, fascist, or other slurs/accusations that are not true, etc. and people who post pro-leftist BS are allowed to flame/harass people who do not agree with the leftist rhetoric.

oh hmm next time I'll actually read some of the posts that matter before replying. Great post dude.

?being against illegal immigration is hate speech? ?using unfavorable statistics is problematic

Lol! Good times.

http://bluelight.org/vb/threads/835...nt-of-people-sent-to-prison-for-gang-rape-are

 

[alasdairm]

another noble, free-thinker who's oppressed for his politcal views and censored for simply having a different opinion?

let's take a look:

Shut the fuck up you pleb.

Don't ever call me a kid and if you EVER threaten me again. It won't end well for you.

Since you probably still live in your mothers basement and have no work ethic (nice post count and join date) I'll personally give you my address and pay for your flight to come and punch me in the face.

Go fuck yourself

oh no. my mistake. just another abusive bluelighter who can't communicate civilly then turns around and cries about being oppressed when we issue an infraction for the insults.

nothing to see here. thank you. drive through.

alasdair

 

[etnies]

What does shit I said have to do with how biased this place has become?

nothing to see here. thank you. drive through.

Also, that's cute the "shut the fuck up you pleb" was from when Scrofula said he was going to punch me in the face but yet I somehow got banned for that one. He didn't get banned though, he got promoted to mod of other drugs.

nothing to see here. thank you. drive through.

 

[CFC]

Also, that's cute the "shut the fuck up you pleb" was from when Scrofula said he was going to punch me in the face but yet I somehow got banned for that one. He didn't get banned though, he got promoted to mod of other drugs.

That's completely disingenuous and dishonest. I explained in pretty straightforward terms why I infracted you for abuse. The incident you're pretending it's related to regarding Scrofula actually earnt him an infraction as well.

Dear etnies,

You've received an infraction for the following:

@mal3volent you're quite funny. Your avatar is literally a symbol used in the 3rd Reich. Shut the fuck up you pleb.

It's perfectly possible to make any points you may have without descending to the use of abusive language. Please refrain in future.

Regards,
CFC

 

[mal3volent]

It scarred me so much I changed my av

 

[etnies]

That's completely disingenuous and dishonest. I explained in pretty straightforward terms why I infracted you for abuse. The incident you're pretending it's related to regarding Scrofula actually earnt him an infraction as well.

Well, feel free to explain again in Pm's. Don't post it here because I promise you nobody cares. Also, his posts were deleted where he called me a Nazi and said he was going to "get me" if I'm wrong, I don't care, if I'm right, I still don't care. This isn't about me or what I've said. It's about how toxic this place is, so by Ali bringing up my old posts all he did was kind of further prove the OP's post.

edit: oh, it seems I had two those old posts of mine mixed up. Sorry I didn't have time to dig through my post history from shit that happened like a year ago and see who I was talking to in what post.

 

[swilow]

Also, his posts were deleted where he called me a Nazi

Don't post material created by Scandinavian neo nazi groups then.

 

[etnies]

Don't post material created by Scandinavian neo nazi groups then.

"created"

1) That happened before I made that thread
2) I posted 3 other sources in that thread

but let me guess, since you didn't like the sources you dismissed them. Since then there has been literally fucking waves and waves of the same shit happening all over Europe but I'm sure they are all fake since they are just all nazis. Look man, this isn't even about me. But keep going....I'll be here until I'm banned again which I'm sure won't be long.

 

[swilow]

I'll be here until I'm banned again which I'm sure won't be long.

As I said in my reply to your PM, its up to you. I have nothing invested in you either posting here or not.

but let me guess, since you didn't like the sources you dismissed them. Since then there has been literally fucking waves and waves of the same shit happening and now main sites are reporting on it but I'm sure they are all fake since they are just all nazis. Look man, this isn't even about me. But keep going....

One of your sources was a Scandinavian Neo-Nazi group called Nordfront. If being called a Nazi makes you want to punch people, don't use those sort of sources? I don't know mate, seems simple to me.

 

[etnies]

As I said in my reply to your PM, its up to you. I have nothing invested in you either posting here or not.



One of your sources was a Scandinavian Neo-Nazi group called Nordfront. If being called a Nazi makes you want to punch people, don't use those sort of sources? I don't know mate, seems simple to me.

But you just said it was created by Nordfront. I was called a Nazi and threatened with a punch, I never said I wanted to punch anyone. Please stay on topic, seems simple to me. Or just keep posting and proving droppers point.