It?s gotten insanely toxic in CE&P. Please read and discuss in a civil manner

[alasdairm]

fuckin hell that seems a bit of an extreme response to that lol

something we can agree on my point exactly.

Link me to it

the links (

) are right in the quotes above.

alasdair

 

[Droppersneck]

So you always say after a long time poster leaves upset “and nothing of value was lost”, but what if there is value there? You truly don’t think that if I posted a vitriolic diatribe againt Clinton and specifically made ad homs against her supporters, like sj did yesterday, that I would be banned? This is why I bring up Bardo, you need a level head running the ship, especially when it’s something as contentious as CEP. Even if Tathra were to take a bigger role, that would be a step in the right direction. Not that he doesn’t have his own biases, but he has self awareness, an ability to see injustice, regardless of political affiliation. I’ve all but wrote the sub off but I enjoy reading a few posters here and their arguments.

<edit> If you can’t over turn his ban, can you at least leave the thread open till he gets off the ban

 

[Soso78]

Ahhh that makes more sense, you left out the bit where you were condescending and tried to make me look like I was being like that for no reason. I remember now.

 

[alasdairm]

So you always say after a long time poster leaves upset “and nothing of value was lost”, but what if there is value there?

funny. you agreed with me at the time:

I will say I don't agree often, but he is correct here.

the value is in contradicting the (false) narrative that some ce&p posters are victimised purely because of their political views. i've now given two crystal clear examples of that not being the case. i can only infer, but even soso78 seems to be having trouble accepting that he responded with such vitriol to my mundane response. for me, that just reinforces that bias is an issue on both 'sides'.

You truly don’t think that if I posted a vitriolic diatribe againt Clinton and specifically made ad homs against her supporters, like sj did yesterday, that I would be banned?

i don't think it. i know it.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

Ahhh that makes more sense, you left out the bit where you were condescending and tried to make me look like I was being like that for no reason. I remember now.

not at all. i posted your question. i posted my response in full and you responded with "Go fuck yourself. Sorry for asking a question. Cunt.".

i think it's indicative of your (plural) role in the problem as seen from the perspective of the staff. if you feel it was acceptable we can agree to disagree.

alasdair

 

[Droppersneck]

Will you at least let this thread stay open till Jgrimez can wiegh in? He’s one of the main poster who’s responses I like reading and know he has some valuable insight into the topic at hand/ is he main reason I made this post. Can’t help but feel dejavu here.

 

[Soso78]

At least we're getting somewhere now. At least Ali is admiting there are biases on both sides.
problem is only one side is in a position to use them biases to ban or infract.
like I said if I were to say half the shit others say I'd be banned.

ali you never posted your response in full st all

 

[alasdairm]

actually you are right. i didn't. apologies. i was only looking at the bottom half of the post.

but i am confused. you rag on me for not giving people enough credit to not be insulted by being told to "shut the fuck up" but now you're suddenly sensitive to being asked "do you really have to be so crudely spoon fed this kind of stuff?"

as i said before, it would be great if you held yourself to the same standard you hold others...

alasdair

 

[Droppersneck]

Will you at least let this thread stay open till Jgrimez can wiegh in? He’s one of the main poster who’s responses I like reading and know he has some valuable insight into the topic at hand/ is he main reason I made this post. Can’t help but feel dejavu here.

Alasdair? Did you read this question. Jgrimez will be able to give you the examples you are asking for. As a phone poster at work, I’m quite limited.

 

[Soso78]

Your fuckin right you didn't and I don't think it was an oversight. I think you try to manipulate things to suit yourself. Like when you edit posts.
It still never stopped me posting though did it?

 

[alasdairm]

^

it's like you're just making my points for me

whatever. this has been illuminating. see you guys later. i'm going on vacation for 8 days. you can rag on me a bit more when i get back.

alasdair

 

[Soso78]

What because I said the word fuckin lol grow a pair ali. Enjoy your holiday mate.

 

[alasdairm]

all your assumptions are 100% correct. you're right. i'm wrong. you get a star.

my friends call me ali. i'm not aware that we're friends.

alasdair

 

[Droppersneck]

Soso let’s just chill on this thread for a bit, and let it rehash when Jgrimez gets off ban.

 

[zephyr]

The current political climate has impacted a lot of social media and has brought out a huge variety of opinions, this cep forum seems to be grossly unable to cope with the divide which has made other forums flourish.

Having stumbled upon another places which have similar rules, the unapproving/ editing and ganging up of a few people in practically every thread against anyone not agreeing is a problem specifically located in bl cep.

Examples are in the contents of the front page, screenshots are uploading to imgur (too many so takes time).

Also what is not seen here but you can see TD would be the attitude of 2 staff members you are supposed to be looking after and also the lack of input comparatively from the others. The uneven presence and lack of acknowledging this is something you could discuss, having tried before I just assume the absentees gave up or got told repeatedly they didnt fit in/deserve to be mods.


So reading TLB's post from 2009 is telling the difference of what a mod role is, what senior staff do, what admin are for and what WE are here for betwen then and now.


Specific examples are all within your realm more than ours. Can you start with some examples yourself? Anyone else? Cduggles? Swillow?

You can talk for yourself you know.


Alasdairm: Its technically your job and your problem to wade through threads like this and read every single post and take response on board. You should know that and its not just you as you have sj who is admin too.

I kinda think that since there have been other people before you that could at least give the appearance of wanting to help out then you should be able to do that yourself. You were far more chilled and easy to talk to but you are definitely not now. Yes im a hypocrite obviously and not any different.

t's not an alternate viewpoint being silenced. this is not politically motivated censorship. it's somebody who's been asked numerous times to stop being a dick being a dick. it's especially ironic coming from somebody who constantly complains about others' abuse and name-calling. when people do this then turn around and claim they're being victimised for theiir politics, can you truly blame us for rolling our eyes and not giving a shit?

ce&p is a microcosm of the country and the world

This is an example of what you are continually posting which is as helpful as "stfu" or me cracking the shits and telling you to get stuffed, approaching a brick wall for dialogue does get aggravating and we are druggies so what do you expect to happen?

You also play the martyr, you have used that technique of deflection better and longer than anyone.

You arent doing your job if you roll your eyes and not care.

Asking members to change means asking you to change too.

Are you able to do that?

Im going to try.

I hope you do.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

It's telling that antagonizing folks who donate their time and energy to BL is all some are willing to do in their efforts to affect change. Is all you (droppers, et al) are comfortable doing complaining and spreading rumors?

• To former staff participating in this thread, you decided to leave instead of do what you could to improve BL's culture. You tried, and then you GAVE UP. Now you say you're frustrated about how the site is being run? As members, all you're comfortable doing is complaining and shit stirring? Please explain to me how that does anything to further your agenda of political inclusion?
  
  Until you prove me otherwise, I can't hep but see what you're present day "contribution" as anything but a vehicle for venting frustration. Why? I haven't seen any of you provide even one well-intentioned constructive suggestion.
  
  
• On the political front, I am left asking myself what the hell passes for conservatism today?
  
  In the case of internet persona's such as droppers, conservatism seems to mean feckless internet troll. A user with a LONG and distinguished history of trolling BL, I have a hard time seeing how his complaints are either genuine or about anything other than boosting his profile. Trolling is not the essence of conservatism. Neither is hatred or othering (meaning bigotry such as racism, etc).
  
  
• Increasing transparency? Sure, I have always like that idea - just as long as it serves a point beyond facilitating dropper-type troll drama.
  
  The main issue facing BL at this moment in time seems to be less about political inclusion than about how the fuck we can more effectively deal with trolls who's main mission in using BL seems to be disrupting the site's operation and inclusive, non-judgemental harm reduction culture.
  
  
• In terms of more political points of view and inclusion of diversity in CE&P? Abso-fucking-lutely!
  
  The caveat however is that meaningful political inclusion requires DIVERSITY. It's no wonder, considering that the single most significant portion of BL's user base seems to be white males, that issue about why we aren't allowing racist points of view and other forms of othering seem to be hot issues right now.
  
  For an organization dedicated to ALL PEOPLE affected by drug use, promoting political inclusion involves prohibiting/editing/removing comments that
  victimize, harass, degrade, or intimidate an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason

  BLUELIGHT USER AGREEMENT
  
  How can we have more conservative voices present in CE&P that are welcomed and appreciated? Stop spreading hatred masquerading as politics. Respect the User Agreement that YOU consented to uphold when you activated your account. If your problem is with the User Agreement, maybe try suggesting how it could be amended to further your goals.
  
  Maybe try starting by clearly defining your goals.
  
  
• Is what you want to see more of on BL about political inclusion in CE&P, less groupthink, the freedom to hurtle insults at dedicated staff members, trolling for lulz, spreading of vitriolic rumors, or making fun of people because they are struggling with drug use?
  
  Or, like, do you want to promote harm reduction and provide an empowering and safe space for marginalized group of people/drug users? Because, when I see threads like this, heaven knows I don't know what to think

Like, OMG!! This thread is still open and no posts have been deleted by staff!






Who would have thought?!

Unless you actually know the races, and sex of everyone that's ever been here on bluelight, just browsed/lurked here, and posted in the anonymous forums but never registered, you have no way of claiming or even knowing things like, "Most posters here are white males...". Even informal polls or a census would not tell you this as not everyone is interested in taking or filling this out, or will answer truthfully.

Long before you ever came here, and long before bluelight moderators and admins became so obsessed with being Politically Correct, when I first came to this site one of the first people who I met was an Asian woman who has since then passed on. Rest in peace. I have also met people here on bluelight who were from West Asia and parts of the Middle East, and they are "white males". A lot of the hardcore leftists here are extremely provincial and ignorant to the fact that "white people" are not all of European descent. There are "white people" or large ethnic groups of white people in Asian countries, parts of the Middle East/Westhern Asia, Northern African countries, and in the Caucasus between Europe and Asia, and the Levant of course. In the United States not all white males are politically conservative. Despite the echo chamber of CEP and the Western world's media, who are all fear-mongering bleating chicken little types that go on about how "The sky is falling! The sky is falling! OMG Donald Trump won the Presidency in the United States!? The Unite States is now Fascist! Fascism is taking over the world again! Most white males in North America/Western/Eastern/Southern Europe are racist!" cries from leftists. The majority of people in the world are not fascist, and just because someone is not a hardcore leftist or does not agree with something a marxist/leftist posts or argues for, it does not mean that they are fascist, support fascism, etc.

There's nothing wrong with anyone being white, or a man, or of European/Caucasian descent. Just as there's nothing wrong with anyone of any race, women, or "people of color". But something that people who are "woke" often forget or are completely ignorant to is that "people of color" can also be extremely racist both towards people of their own race, and people of other races. The "woke" theory that a "person of color" or who is black, or latino, or any combination of races simply cannot be racist is completely laughable and it just shows how little these people know and how they do not live in reality.

Anyway, your post is just yet another example of what myself and others who are posting in this topic are writing about what's been happening in CEP and other forums on here for the past five years or so.

We used to be able to have civil discussions/debates in CEP and other forums, and things were a lot more transparent as Zypher posted with the love bandit's quoted post, but for awhile now, you have power hungry admins and moderators who are leftists or who have biases who either troll or allow others to troll people who write things they do not personally agree with, or will shut down anything they do not like or agree with, or worse ask for examples of things in a debate and then when such things are shown delete/lock/un-approve the thread claiming that it is now completely off topic.

Bluelight's harm reduction used to be alright, it has been nothing but a total joke the past few years or so.

Also many of us former moderators tried to change things, but gave up because of the power hungry bureaucracy that's now in place. Captain Heroin explained all of this in his video that I saw.

 

[zephyr]

^ I found that post TLB made at the end of a very entertaining/hilarious/drama filled thread which seems to have been sparked by airing of some issues not dealt with by reasonable talk.


Seemed to do some good at the time and i guess BP had hoped to achieve something similar.

Dunno, I hope he reads this and comes back .



This thread should be open, used and responded to by staff as its the purpose of this forum to have this available.


Snarky "omg this is not closed or unapproved by staff" is not helpful apart from a reality check for everyone to read TLB's words again.

Good post Priest.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Unless you actually know the races, and sex of everyone that's ever been here on bluelight, just browsed/lurked here, and posted in the anonymous forums but never registered, you have no way of claiming or even knowing things like, "Most posters here are white males...". Even informal polls or a census would not tell you this as not everyone is interested in taking or filling this out, or will answer truthfully.

It's the best guess we have as to who uses the site at the moment. Feel free to do your own research, but somehow I doubt you'll come up with something more scientific than our Director of Research: http://bluelight.org/vb/content/287-census

Long before you ever came here, and long before bluelight moderators and admins became so obsessed with being Politically Correct, when I first came to this site one of the first people who I met was an Asian woman who has since then passed on. Rest in peace. I have also met people here on bluelight who were from West Asia and parts of the Middle East, and they are "white males". A lot of the hardcore leftists here are extremely provincial and ignorant to the fact that "white people" are not all of European descent. There are "white people" or large ethnic groups of white people in Asian countries, parts of the Middle East/Westhern Asia, Northern African countries, and in the Caucasus between Europe and Asia, and the Levant of course. In the United States not all white males are politically conservative. Despite the echo chamber of CEP and the Western world's media, who are all fear-mongering bleating chicken little types that go on about how "The sky is falling! The sky is falling! OMG Donald Trump won the Presidency in the United States!? The Unite States is now Fascist! Fascism is taking over the world again! Most white males in North America/Western/Eastern/Southern Europe are racist!" cries from leftists. The majority of people in the world are not fascist, and just because someone is not a hardcore leftist or does not agree with something a marxist/leftist posts or argues for, it does not mean that they are fascist, support fascism, etc.

I'm not complaining about people who identify as white males per se. I'm referring to the function of white privilege, hegemony and implicit bias. That seems to be the status quo of American politics at the moment. Or do you disagree American politics are a significant influence in CE&P at the moment?

There's nothing wrong with anyone being white, or a man, or of European/Caucasian descent. Just as there's nothing wrong with anyone of any race, women, or "people of color". But something that people who are "woke" often forget or are completely ignorant to is that "people of color" can also be extremely racist both towards people of their own race, and people of other races. The "woke" theory that a "person of color" or who is black, or latino, or any combination of races simply cannot be racist is completely laughable and it just shows how little these people know and how they do not live in reality.

Who is saying a person of color can't be racist, isn't affected by white privilege or implicit bias? I never said such a thing. People of color do tend to be affected differently than people who inherent white privilege though, but I never said white people aren't also harmed by hegemony.

Anyway, your post is just yet another example of what myself and others who are posting in this topic are writing about what's been happening in CEP and other forums on here for the past five years or so.

So apply to become a mod and do something about it! You chose to leave staff, remember? Unless you actually have concrete suggestions or want to try and donate your time to help run the site, not sure how seriously I can take your complaint here.

Things need to change on here, sure. They always are and always do. Are you willing to help change them beyond just waxing a waining about the "good ole days?"

We used to be able to have civil discussions/debates in CEP and other forums, and things were a lot more transparent as Zypher posted with the love bandit's quoted post, but for awhile now, you have power hungry admins and moderators who are leftists or who have biases who either troll or allow others to troll people who write things they do not personally agree with, or will shut down anything they do not like or agree with, or worse ask for examples of things in a debate and then when such things are shown delete/lock/un-approve the thread claiming that it is now completely off topic.

You chose to leave staff. You are happy to complain about how the site is run. Wonderful

Bluelight's harm reduction used to be alright, it has been nothing but a total joke the past few years or so.

Since when was CE&P the heart of BL's harm reduction mission? It's an important community subforum, and it is part of a harm reduction site, but it isn't exactly a harm reduction specific forums where people come to drug policy or public health right now.

Right now people seem more interested in discussing how fucking insane politics are with the state of the world. There is only so much room in the subforum for explicit discussion of harm reduction beyond that.

You want more harm reduction discussion in CE&P? Start engaging in it.

Also many of us former moderators tried to change things, but gave up because of the power hungry bureaucracy that's now in place. Captain Heroin explained all of this in his video that I saw.

Captain.Heroin also decided to stay on staff. You chose to make like a tree and gtfo out of Dodge.

You're always free to run away, just like you're always free to come back and complain about why you left.

Now, the thing is, you have actually done a lot for the development of BL. I'm not trying to deny that. The work you've done to support BL is none of the people who are still on staff when you did it have forgotten.

You were someone whom I respected for how they had supported struggling drug users trying to better their lives. Maybe then you'll understand why I felt pretty depressed when I noticed you had begun ignoring (or forgot?) the mod handbook (you know, the one you agreed to follow when you originally came on staff?).

At some point, around when I came on SL staff, you started becoming more and more confrontational with users about their drug use. You were criticize for your harsh, judgmental treatment of drug users on here. You didn't want to hear it, eventually you got fed up, then you left. Am I missing something?

Am I the reason you left? To a degree, perhaps I was. I certainly played a role in helping to make SL more inclusive beyond an abstinence only approach to recovery, something that you didn't seem too happy about.

I asked you to cut it out when you posted judgmental responses to people struggling with harmful patterns of drug use. I did it because this is a harm reduction forum. But I didn't make you leave. You chose to do that, because you deduced you weren't okay with how harm reduction is support to meet people where they're at - even when it means where they're at is making really foolish decisions.

 

[zephyr]

TP dog: what do you think running the site involves specifically, who are you running the site to benefit and what do you want to achieve by not addressing any area of improvement needed at your level or any other?

Mate you are part of the problem.

I strongly urge you to take as much time as you need to, take your defenses down, sit on the toilet and smoke a cone, read TLB's post until it sinks in that you MUST listen to us.

If that is not reasonable then why are you on staff?

You are here for us. That is your job and the time it takes you signed up for.

We members did not volunteer and do not have the responsibilities you volunteered for, many have left in disgust as they were never listened to.

Its a big mistake to deflect a criticism back as a personal attack without addressing the issue.

What can you do to help? Is this just damage control because troll seriously?

Getting off staff is giving up as not even the staff are listened to or taken seriously.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I loved what you shared from TLB.

You just struck the nail on the head though. It's hard to listen to someone when they're attacking you. The difficulty is that I'm tired of people like Droppers doing their damnest to fuck with BLers, staff, etc.

Frankly zephyr, a lot of your exchanges on BL haven't been making it any easier. Maybe spend less time attacking staff? Getting attacked sucks, doesn't it? With everything you've been through, I imagine you understand what its like better than most.

Staff are obligated to listen to you, but I'm not sure we're obligated to listen to people when the bulk of what they post is inflammatory and combative. But even then, we do listen. We do take your complaints seriously. It's just that, today at least, I was tired of giving everyone a free pass on their ranting and ravings. That isn't how we improve BL, we improve it by having a "civil" discussion (which, thankfully, seems to be the direction this thread is going in).

This thread is for all parties to speak up. Staff are listening. I'm listening. But I'm also tired of taking shit from people who either clearly have their own agenda (Droppers, Priest, etc) who only seem interested in complaining but helping to improve the site.

As the quote you posted from TLB said, if it's up to staff to listen to members, it's up to the members to make BL what they want. Complaining alone doesn't make that happen. Constructive suggestions would, but I don't see a lot of that here.

So, on that note, I think I'll take your advice to heart and relax before revisiting this topic.