Polydrug Dependence and Possible W/D

[Sertürner]

I have been a long time viewer of site and finally have a question of my own that needs answering.

I am concerned I have polydrug abuse problems and am wondering how bad my withdrawals might be if I were to quit between 1 and/or all 3 drugs I use almost daily. I drink about 4-6 (but up to 9-13 on occasion) beers a night (I don't drink liquor because I get hostile and violent). I have been doing this for about 2 years, give or take a couple months. I take kratom 2-3 times a day, with a total of about 14-21 grams a day of dried leaf powder (not extract). And I have been taking Xanax for a chronic medical condition. I have been on the Xanax for 5 months. I am supposed to take 3mg of alprazolam a day but I always take more the first few days and then for the last two weeks or so I have to cut back and take 2mg a day. For the first 4 months i took too many and had about a week of 0mg of Xanax before my script could be refilled.

I am concerned I have a poly drug abuse issue since I feel a craving for every one of these substances daily. On the times I had to have 0mg Xanax I can't tell if I was in withdrawals or not but I am worried that if I run out again I will have W/D's and not even know it until it's too late and have a seizure or something.

So my question is, what are the chances I get a physical W/D if I quit even one of these substances? And what about if I were to quit all of them at once? I don't plan on quitting the Xanax (not without a taper at least) but, for the sake of the question let's assume I do Cold Turkey the Xanax.

What can I expect?

 

[CFC]

Ok so:

Alcohol - 18-20 units per day
Kratom - 14-21g leaf per day
Alprazolam - 2mg per day

Sure, you more than likely have a pretty potent physical addiction to all of them. I'm going to move this over to sober living where you might get more feedback on how to taper down successfully and get off some of these.

Good luck,
CFC

 

[aihfl]

I've been detoxed off benzos and alcohol simultaneously. Unfortunately it's a bad combination and carries a greater seizure risk than either one of them alone, especially at the doses you're taking. The safest bet would be to check yourself in to an inpatient detox where you can be detoxed off both under a doctor's supervision using either chlordiazepoxide (Librium) or diazepam. Under no circumstances should you cold turkey this combination.

 

[KraziKat]

You could be me, Mr. Deeds!

All kidding aside – I can relate. I am also a polydrug addict. I drink daily – every day is a struggle to contain my usage. However, I do not believe I am physically dependent. Rarely do I day drink, no shakes or anything like that. Just craving when the work whistle goes off.

I was hooked on opiates and kratom, which I am now totally off for exactly one week. Quit that one first. Try and cut down on drinking and benzos... when you are ready to quit drinking, those benzos will come in handy.

Also, kratom, IMO is much better for you than the alcohol, in terms of effects on your body. But the physical addiction is a bitch.

 

[Sertürner]

So an update, I still haven't quit any of them. I decided to quit alcohol first because I thought I thought the kratom might synergize the with the xanax. But unfortunately my will power gave out around day 3 when my fiance wanted to drink and I caved. I developed severe RLS and and took extra Xanax to alleviate it, but it didnt work. Then decided to drink But taper off kratom first instead, but my RLS is still just as bad and I get abnormally depressed when I quit it.

I have used and then stopped using kratom for many months at a time with no problem, but this time it's different for some reason. So all in all, I have completely failed in trying to quit...pathetic.

I guess I should mention that I haven't drank quite as much as usual, but it's already picking up speed again (I've had 6 drinks tonight and have 4 more available).

 

[Rio Fantastic]

So an update, I still haven't quit any of them. I decided to quit alcohol first because I thought I thought the kratom might synergize the with the xanax. But unfortunately my will power gave out around day 3 when my fiance wanted to drink and I caved. I developed severe RLS and and took extra Xanax to alleviate it, but it didnt work. Then decided to drink But taper off kratom first instead, but my RLS is still just as bad and I get abnormally depressed when I quit it.

I have used and then stopped using kratom for many months at a time with no problem, but this time it's different for some reason. So all in all, I have completely failed in trying to quit...pathetic.

I guess I should mention that I haven't drank quite as much as usual, but it's already picking up speed again (I've had 6 drinks tonight and have 4 more available).

Does your fiance know about your issues and what you're trying to achieve? Every time I've quit a drug, living with someone who's still using the substance will make it next to impossible to stop. Your fiance should be helping and supporting you, not tempting you when you'd already managed 3 days.

 

[Sertürner]

She does know about my problem. She actually helped me get off a 4 year IV heroin/bupe addiction, got me away from negative influences, and has stood by my side even in situations where she should have walked away from our relationship. I feel like she has saved my life and will always be grateful for that. She doesn?t have drinking issues at all, and I feel that if she wants to drink then she should be allowed to. I?m the one with the problem, not her, so if she wants a drink then it?s up to me not to get one as well, and I?ve told her this verbatim.

Not trying to be rude at all but, it?s not her addiction and she shouldn?t have to suffer just because I can?t control my self. That would be selfish in my eyes.

I do have a 2 day beach vacation with our daughter starting tomorrow morning and I want to be sober for the experience. I plan on only having 12 beers for the 2 days and having my regular amount of xanax and as minimal of Kratom as possible. It?s our daughters first time to see the beach and it?s our favorite place in the world. I want to able to remember this event and want to be fully coherent and be able to enjoy the company of my family sober for once. I don?t want to be a wasted asshole and ruin our first family vacation together...

 

[Sertürner]

Just got back from the vacation. I told myself just 12 drinks the while weekend, and completely failed. I had about 9 or 10 drinks the first day. Some of which were liquor, huge mistake. Got ridiculously depressed and angry and had momentary blackouts, got angry at my fiance and left her at our hotel with our daughter and went to a bar and cried in a corner and drank more. Called my mom and she calmed me down. Went back to the hotel and threw pity party for myself. Next morning I woke up and was completely embarrassed for my behaviour. I swore I wasn't going to drink the next day but once again I got too tempted and drank again (about 6 drinks), as well as having my regular doses of kratom and Xanax. I didn't act as crazy though and we ended up having a much better time than the previous day.
But why can't I stop? I've quit a 4 year IV opiate addiction. Why can't I quit even one of these things? I'm getting more and more frustrated with myself everyday. My habits are expensive when you add up how much I spend every week on this crap, and i still feel like it's ever enough...
I need to stop. I've had enough.

 

[KraziKat]

Just got back from the vacation. I told myself just 12 drinks the while weekend, and completely failed. I had about 9 or 10 drinks the first day. Some of which were liquor, huge mistake. Got ridiculously depressed and angry and had momentary blackouts, got angry at my fiance and left her at our hotel with our daughter and went to a bar and cried in a corner and drank more. Called my mom and she calmed me down. Went back to the hotel and threw pity party for myself. Next morning I woke up and was completely embarrassed for my behaviour. I swore I wasn't going to drink the next day but once again I got too tempted and drank again (about 6 drinks), as well as having my regular doses of kratom and Xanax. I didn't act as crazy though and we ended up having a much better time than the previous day.
But why can't I stop? I've quit a 4 year IV opiate addiction. Why can't I quit even one of these things? I'm getting more and more frustrated with myself everyday. My habits are expensive when you add up how much I spend every week on this crap, and i still feel like it's ever enough...
I need to stop. I've had enough.

It sounds like you're getting there, Mr.Deeds. I'm in a similar headspace with similar substances... ups and downs, forward and back. But the fact that you are thinking very critically about your use and abuse is HUGE. Don't belittle that. Stopping these habits is hard, because the are addictions. It's more than psychological, it's physical. Maybe try taking on one thing at a time?

That's been my strategy. I quit a several years long oxy addiction, only to trade it in for kratom and booze. I decided I wanted off all opiods, and that only ramped up the vodka and benzos. So, I changed course. The alcohol abuse, IMO is far more toxic and dangerous than the kratom. So I decided to cut way back on drinking, and not be so hard on mylelf regarding the kratom. It worked. I hardly drank for a week, and lo and behold I began to feel so much better, physically and mentally.

It hasn't been easy, and I just got back from a business trip where I drank too much... but that's a huge trigger for me. Traveling for work I equate with drinking. I'd like for that to change.

This is hard work. And it can be taxing and exhausting obsessing over it, which I do. But it may be helpful to tackle the most harmful substance first, which is alcohol. The xanax will help with anxiety and sleep while abstaining from it.

Like you said, you've had enough. I have too. Major changes to our patterns and behaviors are not coming easily. I feel your pain. I have a wife and 2 little kids and I want to be there, alive and coherent, for all of them.

 

[Sertürner]

So good news guys! I am on day 6 of alcohol abstinence. It's been a but difficult but the physical withdrawal seems to be dissipating. I still am having insomnia and anxiety but the kratom and Xanax has been a huge help in dealing with both physical and psychological aspects of quitting. My kratom usage has risen noticeably though. I'm using about double the amount I normally take. But I hope to taper down after about 2 weeks into being alcohol free. I still am craving alcohol, but even last night I was able to abstain even when my fiance bought herself some. Very proud of myself right now. KraziKat, how are things going in your end?

 

[Stargazer]

Good job Mr. D!!

I have a similar struggle in that I started sub treatment 6 days ago (for IV heroin) and my husband continues to use. I can't see a way to possibly stop if he continues.

I've slipped 2 times this week. I would've slipped 0 times if I wasn't around my husband

I am so upset and frustrated. I feel like my husband is being selfish and uncaring. If your gf drinking doesn't feel selfish to you - you're a much better and stronger person than I.

She doesn't have a drinking problem. But you do. A pretty severe one. From the way you describe her, it doesn't sound like she'd have a problem abstaining from alcohol around you if you asked her to. At least in the beginning stages of you attempting to stop.

I don't feel it's possible (for me and many others actually) to stop your substance of choice while someone is using it around you. If you can you are a very strong-willed human being. Best wishes to you. And congratulations on your 6 days away from alcohol.

 

[Sertürner]

^ I actually told her I don't want her to change her lifestyle just because I have to. Alcohol is everywhere and I need to be able to handle being around it. If she was using heroin IV it would be a completely different story. I wouldn't be able to handle that. Alcohol is something I need to be able to deal with being around since it is practically everywhere I go. She has offered to stop but I have told her not to.

 

[Sertürner]

Ok so I have been alcohol free for 9 days now whoo! I am buying 3oz of kratom to do a taper. I went through my last 3oz in 5 days. So I hope to be able to just do 2tbsp a day for a few days, then drop to 1tbsp, then 2tsp, then 1tsp then hop off. Then I'll be drug free except the Xanax (which I don't intend to quit). I'll keep updating my progress.

 

[KraziKat]

So good news guys! I am on day 6 of alcohol abstinence. It's been a but difficult but the physical withdrawal seems to be dissipating. I still am having insomnia and anxiety but the kratom and Xanax has been a huge help in dealing with both physical and psychological aspects of quitting. My kratom usage has risen noticeably though. I'm using about double the amount I normally take. But I hope to taper down after about 2 weeks into being alcohol free. I still am craving alcohol, but even last night I was able to abstain even when my fiance bought herself some. Very proud of myself right now. KraziKat, how are things going in your end?

Wow -- 9 days!! I am so proud of you, and inspired as well.

Thanks for asking about me. Since my business trip, I've been boozing again, unfortunately. I need to muster the strength to stop, or at the very least stick to a couple of beers. I slipped back into my old horrible habits this passed week... buying, hiding and sneaking sips, then nursing a beer or two in front of the wife. No bueno. I was feeling so good 10 days ago or so when I made it 5 days totally alcohol free. Cannabis for is essential when I go without drinking. I should just eat an edible on my drive home from work. Will try that today as I finished off my remaining vodka last night.

Kratom, on the other hand, is at a very manageable level. I'm only taking 2.5 grams (4 capsules of OPMS Silver, gas station crap) two times per day. I plan on removing caps and tapering slowly. Taking only 4-5 caps at a time is the lowest amount of opiods I've been in 7 years or something... i dont even know anymore.

Xanax, I only have a couple bars left, and when they're gone, they're gone. I'll try and save them for when I totally jump off the K, or actually stop drinking. I have a bad habit of chasing em with the alcohol. F me.

But all in all, I have stopped being so hard on myself. And I've stopped obsessing so much.

I have a grand plan. This weekend, my wife and kids are going out of town. I'll be alone in my house for 3 days, and then off to Tennessee for work for 2 nights. That leaves me with 5 nights sans family, and out of the office, where I can be moody and shitty and around no one.

I am thinking this is an opportune time to truly quit, suffer, and pay the piper. Normally, my plan would be to rage these upcoming days with booze and pills/kratom, coke, whatever... but my plan, atm, is too only enjoy cannabis. Not drink. No kratom... thinking will taper my capsules up through Friday. Come home from work, fire up the Netflix, get stoned, and just BE. No booze in the house.

I also have some shrooms, MDMA and ketamine (have never used ket really), and I'm considering maybe a pyschdeleic trip would help to put things in the right perspective, but I guess I'm stupid to think that those drugs wouldn't induce cravings for kratom and alcohol on the comedown.

Wow, I am really rambling here... I have kind of stopped updating my own thread on here, but I should return to it with this info. I think I stopped as I was ashamed of drinking so much this past week.

Again, enough abbout me --- GREAT JOB, Mr.DEEDS!!!

 

[Sertürner]

Well it sounds like you at least have a game plan which is great dude. I also have a big issue with eating too many Xanax when I drink. Which is strange considering I hear so many people saying it curbs their urges to drink, not for us I guess ha. And I have to agree on the cannabis COMPLETELY. I would not have been able to sleep without it and that weed is the one thing that actually does ease my alcohol cravings. I have never done ket but IME mdma has never been enjoyable when coming off a depressant. It raises my BP and pulse too high and I get too anxious to enjoy it. But to each their own. I'll be buying my last 3oz tonight. Keep me updated krazikat. I'm a little nervous about my kratom WD but it's nothing I can't get past. I think the H and sub withdrawals that I went through will be worse than this lol.

 

[KraziKat]

Well it sounds like you at least have a game plan which is great dude. I also have a big issue with eating too many Xanax when I drink. Which is strange considering I hear so many people saying it curbs their urges to drink, not for us I guess ha. And I have to agree on the cannabis COMPLETELY. I would not have been able to sleep without it and that weed is the one thing that actually does ease my alcohol cravings. I have never done ket but IME mdma has never been enjoyable when coming off a depressant. It raises my BP and pulse too high and I get too anxious to enjoy it. But to each their own. I'll be buying my last 3oz tonight. Keep me updated krazikat. I'm a little nervous about my kratom WD but it's nothing I can't get past. I think the H and sub withdrawals that I went through will be worse than this lol.

I think you are right regarding the WD severity, but people report horror stories nonetheless. I have read great reports on using agmatine sulfate to not only reduce kratom tolerance but also WD symptoms. I have some, and I think it may actually work but it's hard to tell of course, due to our poly-drug lifestyle haha.

I suggest tapering as best you can with these last 3 oz you have bought. Your xanax will help once you jump, as will magnesium for RLS if it's an issue.

By the way, there is a great subreddit called quittingkratom that is full of inspiration, tips and advice on quitting. Lots of active quitters posting their experiences. Very good stuff, similar to how BL is helpful. My handle there is also krazikat.

Sounds like the fact that you being off the sauce will be great in getting you through. I have quit oxy and subs and kratom in the past, but drank alcoholically which always led me back to the opies. Don't make the mistakes I've made. Stopdrinking is another great subreddit btw.

Keep on doing great... taper those 3 oz, and keep me posted. I have 15 grams worth of caspules, and hopefully my last. Will try and extend it til Friday, and then my plan goes into effect. Need to be strong.

And OMG, weed, for whatever reason, curbs my cravings for all other substances, while also giving insight and clarity toward just being healthy. But for some reason, I just don't embrace it as much as I should!

 

[KraziKat]

How are you doing, Deeds?

 

[Sertürner]

I am back! And I have completely fucked up. After my beach trip I have continued to drink almost daily. Started using even more kratom (although I literally cannot buy anymore for an entire month due to finances. My last dose was this morning). I have been drinking about 3-9 drinks a day, depending on the day and how much booze I have. I am still taking the Xanax as prescribed. Today I skipped my midday xanax dose and noticed my whole body shuddering and twitching. I felt very uncomfortable and could not tell if I could control the muscle spasms or not. It freaked my fiance out really bad. She said it kind of looked like I had Tourette syndrome? Is this benzos wd?

 

[Ds]

Benzo wds can be extremely dangerous. You shouldn't stop taking any medicine without first contacting your doctor.

 

[Sertürner]

I don't plan on stopping at all I just didn't have a moment today to take my noon dose. Was this withdrawal?