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Tapering Help - Opiate WD - Desperate for advice

Hey mom,

I can speak from experience, I got completely clean from a Vicodin habit using kratom. It's been two years, so I pretty much forget my taper schedule. I switched over completely to Kratom one weekend and I was on it probably two months, maybe 3. I would mix it in with yogurt. I think I started at like 4 or 5 doses, one every 3-4 hours while I was awake. Then after a couple weeks tapered it down a dose. Another couple weeks tapered down another dose. I just walked myself down slowly.

Some people may say it's harder, but to me it beat the living shit out of cold turkey. It really wasn't that hard.
 
Also, me personally, I wouldn't go on a 3-4 day trip without anything. That's asking for trouble if you ask me, especially a work trip. I was the same as you, not a hardcore user. I took 20-30 MG of vicodin a day for back pain. Even at that low a number (a lot of people wouldn't even call that a problem, but it sure was for me) quitting was a bitch. I personally wouldn't want to be stuck somewhere with withdrawals and no pills. That's just me.
 
Hey, Dmom.

I agree with davidwright...if you haven't left for your trip yet, please consider if that's really what you want to do. I can totally see how it's an attractive prospect. But I think in practice, it's likely to be brutal.

In terms of a taper schedule, I think what you've proposed is a little fast. What I've found is that for many people, you can drop doses by relatively large margins at the beginning of a taper. But as your dose gets lower, each drop typically needs to get a bit smaller. Going from 4 pills to 3 is probably not going to be a big deal. But, for comparison, dropping from 2 to 1 could be significantly tougher. And jumping off from 1 may be too steep. Does that make sense.

Also, in terms of timing, you can set a target for when you want to drop. In that regard, I'd recommend a week, maybe 2 between drops. BUT, you'll need to listen to your body and be prepared to go slower. For obvious reasons, people often rush their tapers. But really, the merit of a taper is largely is slowness...in general, the more gradually you ease off, the less discomfort you'll have in the end. I can't stress enough, if you drop and find that your new dose isn't cutting it, be prepared to go back up or split the difference.
 
D'mom53: Very recently (2 days ago perhaps) you wrote I have a huge meeting over the next 4 days and need to work 15+ hours each day but I can hardly drag myself out of a chair right now. Then I believe yesterday, while clearly in withdrawal, you (understandably) wrote: I just chewed up 3 pills and I feel like a total failure, cheat, waste case, COWARD. In your most recent post you ask for advice on taper.

I doubt you will be the least bit productive if over "the next 4 days" you become so ill as to be unable to focus. I think the taper plan you have outlined is reasonable, at least for the first week, where you are reducing your "normal" dosage by 25% (from 4 to 3x per day). Since you have considerably reduced your intake over the last week, 3x per day should be manageable for the first week.
While your concern about a recovering from a "broken brain" and your chances of experiencing PAWS is understandable, I don't think there is much value in expending emotional energy into issues that are outside of your realm of influence right now. Right now it is important that you not increase your dependence on opiates. Ideally you should begin to decrease your dependence on opiates and concurrently establish a foundation, including a reasonable plan, that will support you as you work toward improving your emotional and physical health. Take it day by day.

David ... how long were you taking the vicodin?

Note: I composed the above whilst simco was posting their most recent, thus had yet to read simco's prior to posting mine. I agree that a 10 mg drop .... for example from 40 mg to 30 mg (resulting in a 25% reduction) is significantly different than a drop from .... let's say .... 20 mg to 10 mg (50% drop). If I'm earning $1,000 per month, then a $250 monthly cut in pay hurts. If I'm earning $500 per month, then the same $250 pay cut devastates me.
 
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Hey Tony,

I was on it for probably 3 years. My jump to Kratom and then the walk-down from there probably totaled 3 months. Kratom was a godsend for me, I don't know that I ever would have gotten clean without it.
 
I grabbed my scrip right before leaving and I'm so glad I did - you all were right. The advice on the stepping down is really good. I never thought of it in terms of percentages so I will keep that in mind as I go. I"m going to start with the step down once a week and see how it goes. I keep thinking I can power through it but clearly it's a lot harder than that. I have the Kratom but haven't tried it again. I had 2 this morning and 2 just now. One day at a time right? I love this forum - everyone here is so supportive. It's amazing how much better I feel already.
 
Oh, good...I'm so glad you brought your script on the trip. And glad you found BL too :)
 
determinedmom53 said:
I grabbed my scrip right before leaving and I'm so glad I did - you all were right. The advice on the stepping down is really good. I never thought of it in terms of percentages so I will keep that in mind as I go. I"m going to start with the step down once a week and see how it goes. I keep thinking I can power through it but clearly it's a lot harder than that. I have the Kratom but haven't tried it again. I had 2 this morning and 2 just now. One day at a time right? I love this forum - everyone here is so supportive. It's amazing how much better I feel already.
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The worst thing you can do is beat yourself up. You've made the biggest decision of all, which is to get clean. I was in the same boat as you: not a "user" per se, but someone who used the medicine as prescribed and still got into difficulties with it. The good news: I've been clean for 2 years, don't even think about pills anymore. While you're on your trip, definitely do what you need to do. The thing about the walkdown is that it takes commitment long-term. But you can do it. Once you decide you want to be free, you can do it. Believe me, I know.

Good luck with your trip.
 
Update - so far so good. 3 on Mon, 3 on Tue and 2 yesterday - my meeting is going well and I feel pretty good. I'm trying to take a dose when I start to feel bad instead of on schedule. It's a hard habit to break taking it every morning on an empty stomach like I have been every day for years. But I tell myself I"m not really going to feel any relief anyway so why bother and that sometimes takes the edge off. One more day...
 
Yaaaay! Way to go. You have some serious strength. I hope you are really proud of what you are accomplishing. You should be!
 
Update - I did really good last week and then blew it this weekend. Today especially was bad. I am my own worse enemy I guess. Tomorrow is another day and I"m going to keep trying. I feel ashamed about today but my back was killing me and I just made the wrong decision. I've tried the Kratom thing a couple times and it seems to be okay but if I'm going to make this happen I'm going to stick with the plan and only have advil. I only have a couple weeks left on my scrip and I'm planning on not getting it refilled. If I have it around I''' take it for pain relief and before I know it I'm taking it every day on schedule. I need to kiss it goodbye and take the leap or I will never get there. Tomorrow - new day.
 
I just spent the last couple hours reading peoples stories and am inspired again to get this going. I have felt the full on WD's before and the worst part is the aches, pains and total exhaustion. Like so many others here I never felt tired on oxy's. I always felt energized and motivated. Once my back pain was gone I was a cleaning, running, active demon who could do anything. I'm so scared I will never find that person again. That after 3 years of this crap I have permanently broken my brain and I will never heal. Part of me can see the other side. I can imagine my life like it was before but I'm secretly worried I will never find myself again. Can the brain actually go back to normal? Will I ever be me again?
 
I have a question - all week I was doing great. Only taking 1 or 2 a day and feeling fine. Over the weekend I hurt my back and took 4 both days and 6 yesterday - the most I've ever taken. I had been feeling so good all week too busy to be dragging from symptoms and now I feel like I've started all over again. I have a massive headache and it's not even 12 hours since my last one and I already feel terrible. After weeks of pulling back does a few days of regular dosing put you all the way back to square one?
 
I'm still here - still fighting. I have good days and bad days. I had a terrible 10 days where I was back on my regular schedule of 4 a day due to bad pain and now I'm back to trying to quit again. I have vowed to not fill my scrip again so no matter what I only have about 3 weeks left. Today is day 2 no meds and of course I feel like crap. again. I keep talking to myself about how good life is without this... seeing pictures of myself and saying "that was before pain meds" ... "that was after pain meds". Ugh - I'm not giving up but I'm not doing well on the taper plan either. I get to the point where I feel so bad and I can't take time off work or tell anyone anything and I just need to feel better. But one way or the other it all ends soon. I'm either going to make this taper work and slowly get off or jump when my scrip runs out because there is no way I'm going through another humiliating "med appointment" with my doc. Last time he made me feel like a criminal. Screw that - I can manage the pain - been taking lots of advil and it actually works. I tried the kratom one more time but I don't think it's for me. I've tried Dex and that just makes me wheezy. All the comfort stuff seems to just set me back. Vit B really helps with energy so I take a handful of vits every morning and it helps. Mostly I'm just resolved and I will either have pain now or later and then it will end. This trying and failing thing sucks tho - my energy after 2 - 3 days is so low I can barely move. Totally not the real me. I haven't made it past 72 hours yet. Maybe this weekend is my time - I have to get on a plane again for a week on Monday and perform like a dancing monkey so we will see. I'm listening to my friends here and trying not to be hard on myself for all the failing but I am 100% resolved. At least - I think I am....
 
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I have a question - how the heck do you tell yourself not to take another pill when your 3 days in and feel like total crap knowing it will make you feel better? I think I've tried CT without actually trying CT at least 3 times. Like now. Maybe I should just ride out the scrip and then say goodbye when it's gone for good. I'm never getting more so I know it will stick eventually. Just can't seem to get there - I feel so preoccupied with counting minutes and complaining about every chill and sweat. UGH!
 
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determinedmom53 said:
I have a question - how the heck do you tell yourself not to take another pill when your 3 days in and feel like total crap knowing it will make you feel better? I think I've tried CT without actually trying CT at least 3 times. Like now. Maybe I should just ride out the scrip and then say goodbye when it's gone for good. I'm never getting more so I know it will stick eventually. Just can't seem to get there - I feel so preoccupied with counting minutes and complaining about every chill and sweat. UGH!
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Just keep telling yours3lf those pills are what got you all this pain.I feel for you but you are now on day three it will start getting better tomorrow your nearly there just a few more days left don't give up now
 
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