Training Log First ever cycle log

Well done on the gains mate. Fingers crossed you manage to hold most of them. If you can hold 25-30lbs of it, you'll be doing exceptionally well.
 
Today I realized most of my bloat was missing and I am feeling small since it’s gone but lol I look better? Weird feeling. Fun story, I went to another gym today and finally found a sharps bin on the wall! I took mine out, popped the top off and started dumping all the needles. Everyone was staring at me like I was some monster, they all then stayed away from me. It was great. Going to update when I get home with weight to see if the bloat was more or less than I thought
 
Hey man - updates? How have things been going the last 5 weeks?
 
Glad to see some interest! I was coming to update. So 40 pounds up was the limit for me. I believe when I took the dbol it boosted me up and then when I got off I was able to maintain and then I just stayed at 40lbs gain. ANYWAYS my last two taper weeks I did in a strange way. First taper week I did fine, two injections and then I took adex that weekend at 0.5 then on December 27th I took only one injection, I combined both doses for that week and just did it on a Wednesday. I don’t believe this would have any effect and I haven’t took any Adex since then as well. So far I’ve noticed minor fluctuation of weight. I drop or gain 5lbs but strength wise I’m all there, some days I’ll tucker out more easily but I drop the weight by a few and push it out. That’s about all to report so far. Any advice for your guy??? Also I haven’t taken any blood yet, don’t think I will unless it’s really needed.
 
I mean, separating the doses is more ideal as you're trying for a soft-landing, but I doubt it'll hurt you too much. But otherwise excellent news on holding most of the weight so far! Keep doing what you're doing :)

When you do get the bloods, make sure to share them all here if you can.

Also, any more thoughts on whether you're going to do another cycle sometime, or is this the only one for now?
 
I mean, separating the doses is more ideal as you're trying for a soft-landing, but I doubt it'll hurt you too much. But otherwise excellent news on holding most of the weight so far! Keep doing what you're doing :)

When you do get the bloods, make sure to share them all here if you can.

Also, any more thoughts on whether you're going to do another cycle sometime, or is this the only one for now?

40lbs is huge. I'd be hooked lmao.
 
I know it's not recommended but I never found tapering to help. Since your endogenous test is suppressed at even a small amount of gear, it doesn't seem to achieve much. The only way to re-establish hormones like LH, FSH, and then your own endogenous testosterone is to come off and stay of for a period of time....hence the blast and cruise method whem people never come off.

I'm not recommending that BTW (unless your my age and need a small amount of test year round...that I get from a doctor)...

Others may have different experiences, but I never found tapering to be any more effective than just stopping .
 
Tapering from the perspective purely of LH/FSH recovery makes no sense, for sure, since it'll still impair recovery.

But that's not why I recommend it. This taper is part of the cycle. There's a point about acclimating the body to its soon-to-be changed status (a new homeostasis of lower test levels) that can only be achieved by tapering off slowly, as opposed to plunging off a cliff while levels of things like myostatin are still very high.

I've found it to be a very effective tool over the years for minimising losses post-cycle (well, that and not using too much AAS in the first place). While someone's coming off, I also tend to get them to taper up other things (intake of creatine, HMB, leucine, calories etc) in a further effort to counter catabolism.
 
Tapering from the perspective purely of LH/FSH recovery makes no sense, for sure, since it'll still impair recovery.

But that's not why I recommend it. This taper is part of the cycle. There's a point about acclimating the body to its soon-to-be changed status (a new homeostasis of lower test levels) that can only be achieved by tapering off slowly, as opposed to plunging off a cliff while levels of things like myostatin are still very high.

I've found it to be a very effective tool over the years for minimising losses post-cycle (well, that and not using too much AAS in the first place). While someone's coming off, I also tend to get them to taper up other things (intake of creatine, HMB, leucine, calories etc) in a further effort to counter catabolism.

They're excellent points...it's just that since test is suppressed at even a low dose and won't start to kick in again until clean, either jumping of the cliff or tapering doesn't seem to make much of a difference IME with regard to acclimatising your body to lower test..I've not seen any evidence that suggests that gradully lowering your exogenous hormones helps the body to acclimatise....it seems that endogenous test is either switched on or off not really kicking back in slowly with lowered doses...

I agree with the supplements but I've yet to see any studies of any method of conning off that avoids the inevitable crash...all you can do is try to strengthen other areas as you say to minimise catabolism but in terms of switching your natural test back on...I don't think it helps much.

I'm of course open to evidence to the contrary ....that's why I post here..to learn things from other people.

IME the sad truth is that once you've taken that plunge....training without gear will never be the same and a drop off is inevitable ..hence with when people make that leap they sometimes never stop. This is why I think beginners should think VERY carefully before taking that step.
 
One other point I wanted your opinion on is HCG. I used to do it but don't now as I feel all it is doing is sending am artificial signal to increase LH temporarily....its not really "restoring" anything ..take away the HCG and the signal to your brain and nuts is gone and your starting from scratch again...it isn't doing anything to resort the pituitary/gonadal axis in the long term..purely a short term artificial signal which your body recognises as such...
 
They're excellent points...it's just that since test is suppressed at even a low dose and won't start to kick in again until clean, jumping of the cliff tapering doesn't seem to work IME with regard to acclimatising your body to lower test..I've not seen any evidence that suggests that gradullyblowering your exogenous hormones helps the body to acclimatise....it seems that endogenous test is either switched on or off not really kicking back in slowly with lowered doses...

I guess it helps if you don't think about AAS as the only relevant factor here. You can build muscle without any testosterone in your body at all. This is because there are lots of mechanisms involved in anabolism and catabolism. At the end of a typical cycle, for example, your myostatin levels will be at their peak. They're probably why people stop gaining after x weeks on a cycle in the first place. They took time to build and for the body to reach that new homeostatic equilibrium where they prevented further gains. Unfortunately they don't just drop back down to baseline the moment you stop your cycle. So what you're exposing yourself to is the most catabolic hormone in the body right when you need some kind of buffer the most. Hence tapering more slowly rather than cliff-edge.

I can't really think of any other mechanism that would help apart from tapering AAS down and other growth factors up. I also don't think it's too hard to grasp the logic of it - it's the exact same thing behind any other drug withdrawal programme. Cold turkey just isn't as effective.

As for reaching the standard of scientific proof, well you've got me there. Aside from the logic of it, I can only give anecdotes based on people (mostly clients) who've followed it and recovered better. If I was rich, I'd pay for all kinds of double-blind studies but, alas, I went into the wrong field for money haha :D

I don't expect people to do it if they don't want to though. OP followed it based on the logic I presented. But he had nothing to lose in trying either way, just another couple of weeks on cycle tapering down.
 
One other point I wanted your opinion on is HCG. I used to do it but don't now as I feel all it is doing is sending am artificial signal to increase LH temporarily....its not really "restoring" anything ..take away the HCG and the signal to your brain and nuts is gone and your starting from scratch again...it isn't doing anything to resort the pituitary/gonadal axis in the long term..purely a short term artificial signal which your body recognises as such...

The idea behind hCG is mostly about maintaining some kind of activity in the gonads while you're on cycle, so that when you come off and LH/FSH come back on stream, there are actually cells there to act on the signal.

I do agree that despite its ability to maintain testicular mass, it doesn't always seem to translate into actual test output once LH is restored (there is a study about here somewhere - might be in the 'study corner' above). This could be because it doesn't protect from oxidative damage caused to leydig/sertoli cells in the testes during the cycle, despite maintaining overall mass.
 
I guess it helps if you don't think about AAS as the only relevant factor here. You can build muscle without any testosterone in your body at all. This is because there are lots of mechanisms involved in anabolism and catabolism. At the end of a typical cycle, for example, your myostatin levels will be at their peak. They're probably why people stop gaining after x weeks on a cycle in the first place. They took time to build and for the body to reach that new homeostatic equilibrium where they prevented further gains. Unfortunately they don't just drop back down to baseline the moment you stop your cycle. So what you're exposing yourself to is the most catabolic hormone in the body right when you need some kind of buffer the most. Hence tapering more slowly rather than cliff-edge.

I can't really think of any other mechanism that would help apart from tapering AAS down and other growth factors up. I also don't think it's too hard to grasp the logic of it - it's the exact same thing behind any other drug withdrawal programme. Cold turkey just isn't as effective.

As for reaching the standard of scientific proof, well you've got me there. Aside from the logic of it, I can only give anecdotes based on people (mostly clients) who've followed it and recovered better. If I was rich, I'd pay for all kinds of double-blind studies but, alas, I went into the wrong field for money haha :D

I don't expect people to do it if they don't want to though. OP followed it based on the logic I presented. But he had nothing to lose in trying either way, just another couple of weeks on cycle tapering down.

I hadn't considered the other hormones involved...was purelly thinking about testosterone but that's a good point..

I was thinking just now about the comparison with say opiate withdrawls and how your body gets used to less and less drugs in your system and slowly brings back endogenous endorphins...reduces noradrenalin production and sensitivity etc..I just don't think endogenous testosterone production works in the same way..

I'm not disagreeing here BTW just debating.the subject...

There's no harm of course in tapering and it may well work.. there isn't a lot out there on the exact mechanisms of how this all works in the body, just guys like us conjecturing on the most likely mechanisms based on interpretation and experience..

It's an interesting topic though...
 
Yeah it is interesting. When we were both starting out in this game, guys still used to do that pyramiding thing that was popular. And how I used to laugh at them as dinosaurs lol. But over time I began to appreciate the logic of slowly tapering up and tapering off to overcome homeostasis (not so much a pyramid mind, more a long upwards taper and a faster off-taper).

I discussed the logic a bit more in this thread. I don't suppose it's something I'll ever be able to prove unless someone does a very expensive study (I rate the chances 1-in-1 billion since nobody gives a shit about bodybuilders). But the logic behind it satisfies me for now until something else comes along to shift my view and make me look like those old dinosaurs again :D
 
Hello to all with another update. Still lifting the same amount I was when I did my last injection. Some days I'll feel weaker and drop 5-10lbs on my lifts but everything seems to be in tip top shape with strength. NOW BODY WISE....lol......so due to just eating as much as I could while on I shot up to 170lbs and then lost about 5 pounds almost a week after my last injection and so after seeing that and also from previous advise to keep eating when off and also just being on vacation from school. I got a little fat lol but still better looking than I was when I was this weight before the gear. I kinda want to get rid of the fat through diet but not sure when a good time for that to be. When would you know when your gains are pretty much there to stay? Still havent took bloods yet...busy schedule :/

ps. I have clen on hand just incase I did get fat
 
Get bloods in a few weeks. See where your t is at. If your still low you'll kiss your gains goodbye if you diet. If you get a little fat, no big deal. It's easier to cut than gaining.
 
Im feeling extremely small. Fatiguing much faster in the gym and having to drop reps or weights during my workouts. I think its time to test my t levels lol..... really makes a guy want to do cycle 2! Looking fat, but im not getting laid anymore so its of no worries to me. Am I crazy or do my muscles look smaller??? Did the water all finally leave? I feel just as strong (except the faster fatigue limit) but I dont LOOK as strong as I thought I did a month ago.
 
Glycogen stores will diminish along with water weight. Test levels will probably be low. Keep chugging along til you're time off=length of your cycle.

Honestly my hats off to anyone who cycles. I can't deal with that shit lol.
 
You went from using hormones to not using hormones so, yes, you're going to look smaller and less full.

Would be interested to see where test levels land anytime in the next month though and how low they may or may not be.

Definitely props for cycling, can be a mental battle
 
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