Training Log First ever cycle log

[CFC]

back to PCT though, Im only concerned with MAN BOOBS. Ya can CUT my balls off for all I care, though I would like to have kids in the future it's not of upmost importance to me. So in the end all I'm concerned with is, maintaining gains as much as possible and keeping the estrogen at correct levels to minimize sides.

I wouldn't be too blase with your future mate, and we're not totally dismissing the idea of a PCT. Whether someone does a PCT or not, it's not likely to cause harm either way, and a guy can still try a PCT after if they fail to recover. However, most guys do one without actually knowing whether it's worked or whether they simply recovered naturally (or, as is often the case, they fail to fully recover either way).

So the argument we've been making on here for a few years now is simply that the automatic dogma that a PCT is always required or that it will always work is flawed. And guys that place unrealistic faith in them because of this may be inclined to do riskier things (higher doses, more compounds, longer cycles, blast-n-cruise, no breaks, even doing a first cycle) without fully appreciating that they may never recover fully (or for some, at all). That's about as anti-HR as you can get.

 

[Swim15]

CFC, I agree completely and, you're right, they didn't stay elevated. I've always been of the minority opinion that once you use gear there is some irepairable damage like you mentioned. There are a fair number of studies in 10th Anabolic's IIRC studying recovery and most subjects without PCT took between 12-16 weeks for partial to mostly fully recovery...been a while since I've read it.

My point, which I should have more clearly stated, is only that PCT drugs help you "recover" to the extent that recovery will take place faster and help you feel like shit for a shorter period of time. Personally, I give guys I coach all of this info and let them decide but also tell them if it were me personally and I was going to cycle, that I would stay on a low dose of clomid 3x per week to keep those levels elevated between cycles if energy, libido, sexual function, etc isn't where you want it

 

[RedLeader]

Quantitatively over the long haul it doesn't really matter but qualitatively it can...

 

[hazukiguy]

Well, I'm not going to do a PCT this time. I might if I add anavar in the last 6 weeks of my next cycle but even then I dont think its needed. ANYWAYS I have another question for you all. I've noticed that sometimes when I pin I feel a slight pinch and it slightly just slightly hurts to put the needle in but then once in and injecting its fine. Ive also noticed that injecting is slower when this happens. Today when I pinned I felt NOTHING needle went in, I injected IT WENT ALARMINGLY FAST, I had to slow myself down a bit not sure if I was just pressing harder than usual or.... anyways what are your thoughts? I usually inject in the same place but today I went a little higher than the usual spot. I do my quads btw.

 

[Serotonin101]

The muscle is probably slightly tense. It's hard for me to completely relax my quads so I usually get a little bite and a little resistance.

 

[CFC]

recovery will take place faster and help you feel like shit for a shorter period of time.

Yeah, I'm not sure I agree they truly accelerate the underlying 2-4 month recovery window, though undoubtedly as a band-aid (with higher LH concentrations boosting test even if not LH receptors or leydig cells) they're going to make guys feel better for the duration of treatment and for a few weeks beyond.

In the context of beginners doing their first few cycles here though, since we advise them to gradually taper off and use low doses and limited compounds, the point becomes somewhat moot since they're not crashing much anyway, and most feel generally ok post-cycle (comparatively). If they were coming straight off from (say) 750mg or 1g, the band-aid approach may be more efficacious.

Again the trouble with all this PCT discussion is we're not talking in absolutes but nuance and grey areas, and most bodybuilders really seem to have a problem handling that level of uncertainty and want binary cookie-cutter black and white answers.

 

[CFC]

Well, I'm not going to do a PCT this time. I might if I add anavar in the last 6 weeks of my next cycle but even then I dont think its needed. ANYWAYS I have another question for you all. I've noticed that sometimes when I pin I feel a slight pinch and it slightly just slightly hurts to put the needle in but then once in and injecting its fine. Ive also noticed that injecting is slower when this happens. Today when I pinned I felt NOTHING needle went in, I injected IT WENT ALARMINGLY FAST, I had to slow myself down a bit not sure if I was just pressing harder than usual or.... anyways what are your thoughts? I usually inject in the same place but today I went a little higher than the usual spot. I do my quads btw.

I often get a little pinch from the surface nerves twitching, it's normal. Try to remember the spots that cause zero pain. I use freckles to help locate them again in future

 

[Swim15]

Yeah PCT is pretty much a baindaid. The times I did do it were after 4-5 week oral runs way back when though and, shit, not something I wanna do again

 

[musique]

Yeah PCT is pretty much a baindaid. The times I did do it were after 4-5 week oral runs way back when though and, shit, not something I wanna do again

HCG is suppresive, although it can bolster up your Load size and Nut size Users have to realize and not waste that all too precious money, either your off and use clomid/tamoxifen/dostinex combo or stay on. There are no in between's unless your wallet only allows for low/HRT dosages. Although I def recommend staying off until you can put together and afford another cycle , Anabolics, ancillaries, pct and basic supps and good clean food and a clear determined mindsight for some exponential gains

 

[Swim15]

HCG is suppresive, although it can bolster up your Load size and Nut size Users have to realize and not waste that all too precious money, either your off and use clomid/tamoxifen/dostinex combo or stay on. There are no in between's unless your wallet only allows for low/HRT dosages. Although I def recommend staying off until you can put together and afford another cycle , Anabolics, ancillaries, pct and basic supps and good clean food and a clear determined mindsight for some exponential gains

HCG isn't suppressive...there is some speculation that it could cause negative feedback on GnRH since it mimics LH but the primary desensitization that causes suppression occurs in leydig cells as it is fairly easy to recover LH production.

Now at high doses, HCG could desensitize cells to LH but that's a somewhat hotly debated topic depending on the person/doc you talk to.

 

[musique]

You're missing the point, HCG ~ LH and FSH is supressive if you want full restoration as GnRH IS suppresive on LH production from the Hypothalamus > Infundibulum > Anterior stalk of Pituitary. You're delaying the inevitable, It's no different than HRT save the short term testicular growth and increase in sperm and semen production. It's role is a litmus test/primer to see if your testicles can recover, then Clomid/tamoxifen, raloxifene etc..Blah, Blah are used for permanent HPTA restoration.

 

[Swim15]

Not exactly...desensitization occurs primarily in the leydig cells in regards to LH and not the production of LH itself. HCG will help resensitize leydig cells to LH which is the longest part of the process by far since your body can ramp LH production back up fairly easily. That's why when you look at post cycle blood work, you'll often see relatively normal LH and FSH levels but test levels are still in the shitter...don't quote me on this stuff lol. Been a long time since I've given a shit enough to read liturature on PCT but that's my understanding

 

[Serotonin101]

Not exactly...desensitization occurs primarily in the leydig cells in regards to LH and not the production of LH itself. HCG will help resensitize leydig cells to LH which is the longest part of the process by far since your body can ramp LH production back up fairly easily. That's why when you look at post cycle blood work, you'll often see relatively normal LH and FSH levels but test levels are still in the shitter...don't quote me on this stuff lol. Been a long time since I've given a shit enough to read liturature on PCT but that's my understanding

All, my bloodwork has my lh and fsh at near 0 but test is >1500. I must be awesome lol the real fun is running tren and getting bloodwork with nonsensitive estrogen screening. That will make anyone shit bricks lmao

 

[hazukiguy]

Day 23, week 4...I'm still feeling like I was on week 1 in the gym.. seeing minimal improvements on everything but its starting to slow down. I havent seen that "obvious" increase in strength yet.
I guess Ill just keep being patient~
Regarding PCT once more I've done some more research and if I decide to never get back on then PCT would probably be my best bet. Honestly this risky business isnt worth it again after this so I really do believe this may be my first and only cycle atleast until YEARS away believe it or not....but lets say it is, no PCT still worth it?
Should I also add in the anavar I have because FUCK IT why not if this will be my only cycle until years later, I also have test P but I plan on selling/giving it away since I have a test e vial too and thats what Im currently using. Would love the input of my fellow peers, be as constructive as you all want I take no offense.
Also so far no sides, I did get a huge pimple on my back, it blew up yesterday while I was doing squats left a blood stain...been awhile since I had a huge one like that so maybe? but skin feels fine, nipples feel fine, still really horny but Ive stopped jacking it so much since my cum started...dribbling..instead of SHOOTING out, and again my balls look normal, they have been feeling a bit odd today though. Alright thats all I have to say so far.

 

[CFC]

I agree with you that you need to be patient, you're sounding mega impatient tbh You've only just finished week 3. How much weight have you gained so far? How much more are you now eating?

As for PCT, do one if it's worrying you.

 

[hazukiguy]

I agree with you that you need to be patient, you're sounding mega impatient tbh You've only just finished week 3. How much weight have you gained so far? How much more are you now eating? As for PCT, do one if it's worrying you.

For PCT, what are your thoughts if this is my LASTcycle(for quite a long time)? and again if I add the var I have for the last 6 weeks. I'm actually not worried at all and I plan on doing no PCT as I am doing the 5g of taurine daily, going to add in royal jelly at 2g daily starting next week. With the posts I've been reading on here there should be no reason to do a PCT, besides taking an AI during the tapering down weeks.
For being impatient...I agree it does sound like so but this is my first cycle and I just want to know if I'm doing everything correctly so that first obvious sign I get it will finally put my mind at ease.
I actually dont know how much, I'll update you guys soon but the first 2 weeks I put on around 6 pounds while still looking around the same BF%. I'll be honest some days are really shitty and I do NOT eat more but other than that I am eating about a meal more than I usually do. I'm in a pretty horrible situation where I'm constantly switching from living areas and so during those switches meals are being lost.

 

[Swim15]

Here's a way you can think about your decision -

Will skipping PCT be the end of the world? No, although you are more likely to feel crappy for longer.

Will PCT hurt you? i.e. How much risk is there? The risk is minimal or null altogether in the sense of not being greater than generally accepted every day risk.

On another note, I highly doubt this will be your last run and if that's your attitude overall then honestly I don't think you should have touched gear in the first place. What risks are you especially concerned about?

 

[CFC]

For PCT, what are your thoughts if this is my LASTcycle(for quite a long time)?

My thoughts are as before - it's pointless. You're tapering off, so you're not going to crash or feel too bad post-cycle anyway. And you'll probably recover just as fast with or without. However, if you're worried and it bugs you, take the clomid.

For being impatient...I agree it does sound like so but this is my first cycle and I just want to know if I'm doing everything correctly so that first obvious sign I get it will finally put my mind at ease.

You're impatient. Which is why Swim is totally correct when he says this won't be your last LOL. We've all been there mate

I actually dont know how much, I'll update you guys soon but the first 2 weeks I put on around 6 pounds while still looking around the same BF%. I'll be honest some days are really shitty and I do NOT eat more but other than that I am eating about a meal more than I usually do. I'm in a pretty horrible situation where I'm constantly switching from living areas and so during those switches meals are being lost.

Ok I appreciate things aren't ideal, but you must get the food in. If you can only do one thing properly in your life at the moment, make it this. And keep a record of changes. Otherwise you'll keep having these knee-jerk reactions when you think nothings happening. 6lbs in 2 weeks considering the dose you're on (ie not too much is water) is great. Keep it up.

 

[hazukiguy]

My thoughts are as before - it's pointless. You're tapering off, so you're not going to crash or feel too bad post-cycle anyway. And you'll probably recover just as fast with or without. However, if you're worried and it bugs you, take the clomid.

Alright, it actually isnt bothering me or worrying me. I just really like to have other's opinions in mind. As stated before, I am not going to do a PCT.

You're impatient. Which is why Swim is totally correct when he says this won't be your last LOL. We've all been there mate

On another note, I highly doubt this will be your last run and if that's your attitude overall then honestly I don't think you should have touched gear in the first place. What risks are you especially concerned about?

I know this won't be my last but it will be for quite some time. I'm living with LE and recently they found my syringes and I had to lie and say they were pipets for chemistry class. That factor plus that my supplier has been really sketchy lately and hasnt responded to me in a week, I think it is fair to say that this will be my last for atleast 3 years. Believe it or not but I'm just being realistic. Nothing about the risks of gear concern me, most of my research into gear went into safety and risks.

Ok I appreciate things aren't ideal, but you must get the food in. If you can only do one thing properly in your life at the moment, make it this. And keep a record of changes. Otherwise you'll keep having these knee-jerk reactions when you think nothings happening. 6lbs in 2 weeks considering the dose you're on (ie not too much is water) is great. Keep it up

Trust me, that's one thing I am mainly focused on doing. I'm actually taking pics every week and keeping track of my numbers in the gym. I will say that if I wasn't on anything I wouldn't see results like this but like I said nothing MAJOR yet. I know it may sound like I'm being impatient but when I come on here to post updates...I'm just posting updates of my current thoughts and improvements. I'm not moaning or complaining so sorry to all if it sounds that way.

 

[Swim15]

You know that they would have to be clinically retarded to believe that syringes were pipets, right? No one is going to buy that lol.

As far as that goes I'd be 100% sure they are cool with it (most cops I know use gear anyways) or move. If there's a chance they aren't down with it you don't want to mix gear and LE...feel like that's saying don't let your kid drink drain cleaner.