Training Log First ever cycle log

Holy fuck dude lol how the hell do you go so long between meals. I go three hours and ready to fuck someone up with the hangry. If you're having a hard time gaining, definitely throw a couple more melas in there and just bring them to class. What I did for four years
Learned behavior from the recent cut I did. It wasnt easy... I can go a full day without eating if needed to be though now.


Anyways recent update: this is now the official first day of week 3, besides the weird sensation in my right pec which is now gone. Everything else is pretty much the same as weeks 1 and 2. Feel great in the gym. Ive noticed some gains in my body...small. I expect the big ones in the next coming weeks based on Red's experience. Looking forward to it.
Now my supplier told me for cycle 2 I should follow the same plan but add eq and anavar the last 6 weeks, thoughts guys? (the goal for cycle 2 would be to cut, get that shredded look)
 
Ya, just remember that I felt huge strength gains on weeks 3 and 4, but still felt that I looked the same. Strength precedes size.

Are you still getting good pumps? Have you noticed any skin changes such as oil of acne? I got tiny pimples down my arms around week 3-4. Not like big or painful or anything, but a bunch of pinprick like red bumps.
 
Learned behavior from the recent cut I did. It wasnt easy... I can go a full day without eating if needed to be though now.


Anyways recent update: this is now the official first day of week 3, besides the weird sensation in my right pec which is now gone. Everything else is pretty much the same as weeks 1 and 2. Feel great in the gym. Ive noticed some gains in my body...small. I expect the big ones in the next coming weeks based on Red's experience. Looking forward to it.
Now my supplier told me for cycle 2 I should follow the same plan but add eq and anavar the last 6 weeks, thoughts guys? (the goal for cycle 2 would be to cut, get that shredded look)

Two points if I may:

Try not to follow advice from someone that would profit from that advice..

You will gain on your first cycle, there is also no reason why you won't gain on your 2nd cycle if you keep doing what you are doing, (training to failure, eating correctly) You won't suddenly stop growing if you don't keep adding extra compounds in the first few years...
You should work toward building a solid base from which to build on and progress from further, but that is many years down the track AFTER YOU HAVE BUILT THAT BASE..!!
There are many more years of gains if you are only patient..


Don't think after your first cycle you have attained the necessary quality muscle to warrant "a cut".... Too many people fall into this trap, that SOLID BASE I mentioned can't be built on a 10-12 week first cycle, IT TAKES YEARS..!!
"A cut", is training in a calorie deficit, YOU WILL NOT GROW in a calorie deficit..!! DONT BE AFRAID of putting on a little BF% in the early years, you need to be in calorie surplus to grow, with that calorie surplus come a little extra BF%... DONT WORRY YOURSELF too early over trivials...

TRAIN - EAT - GROW..!!!!
 
Ya, just remember that I felt huge strength gains on weeks 3 and 4, but still felt that I looked the same. Strength precedes size. Are you still getting good pumps? Have you noticed any skin changes such as oil of acne? I got tiny pimples down my arms around week 3-4. Not like big or painful or anything, but a bunch of pinprick like red bumps.
Still feeling strength and pumps, not noticing anything with my skin. Might be slightly more oily...I've always had sort of bad skin so I use products to counteract so maybe thats why? I do know the strength precedes size but I havent seen them HUGE strength gains just yet, Im excited to put some more weight on my bench (a lift Ive always had less than average progress with) .
Two points if I may: Try not to follow advice from someone that would profit from that advice..

You will gain on your first cycle, there is also no reason why you won't gain on your 2nd cycle if you keep doing what you are doing, (training to failure, eating correctly) You won't suddenly stop growing if you don't keep adding extra compounds in the first few years... You should work toward building a solid base from which to build on and progress from further, but that is many years down the track AFTER YOU HAVE BUILT THAT BASE..!!
There are many more years of gains if you are only patient..


Don't think after your first cycle you have attained the necessary quality muscle to warrant "a cut".... Too many people fall into this trap, that SOLID BASE I mentioned can't be built on a 10-12 week first cycle, IT TAKES YEARS..!! "A cut", is training in a calorie deficit, YOU WILL NOT GROW in a calorie deficit..!! DONT BE AFRAID of putting on a little BF% in the early years, you need to be in calorie surplus to grow, with that calorie surplus come a little extra BF%... DONT WORRY YOURSELF too early over trivials...

TRAIN - EAT - GROW..!!!!
Well when I do a cut I mostly try to get rid of body fat. I dont ever train in a deficit, I just change up my diet to get rid of body fat and ECA stack that shit up! Also Id only do a "cut" if I felt that I gained too much BF% if Im looking good by the end of this cycle then I'm more than happy. I just like to be proactive and overthink things, I try not to but its a bad habit.
 
As for my supplier, I believe I can trust him. He stated that I should follow this plan you guys suggested even after I pleaded I wanted to go 500mg/week. He also disagree's with adding compounds but he also states that if I am not happy with results and want to attain that "shredded" look he would suggest adding eq and anavar at the last 6 weeks (of cycle 2), I was checking with you guys if this would yield BETTER results. I know its foolish to be adding compounds or upping doses so soon (even though I want to...gotta fight the urge) but I joined this forum for the insight many of you have. Kind of why Im constantly asking for advice and opinions.
 
A couple things...first, if you're losing fat, you're in a deficit...there are some cases where this may not be true but that wouldn't apply here. That said, you definitely can gain muscle in a deficit.

As far as compounds, they won't dictate the outcome. You can get just as shredded as anyone out there on no anabolics just like you can with test solo just like you can with multiple compounds. Anavar is relatively mild, has low sides, and gives a very polished look. As such, it's one of my favorite compounds to have in a cut. Not because it will get you any more shreddd although you may appear slightly drier but because of the look it gives.

Personally I wouldn't cut on EQ just because it gives me a large appetite increase but test/anavar is a good option, maybe with the addition of some mast if you want to stay away from the harsh stuff.
 
As for my supplier, I believe I can trust him. He stated that I should follow this plan you guys suggested even after I pleaded I wanted to go 500mg/week. He also disagree's with adding compounds but he also states that if I am not happy with results and want to attain that "shredded" look he would suggest adding eq and anavar at the last 6 weeks (of cycle 2), I was checking with you guys if this would yield BETTER results. I know its foolish to be adding compounds or upping doses so soon (even though I want to...gotta fight the urge) but I joined this forum for the insight many of you have. Kind of why Im constantly asking for advice and opinions.

Sometimes having too much exuberance and not enough patience becomes someones downfall. It is one thing to be passionate, and want to experiment but one cannot jump the gun and skips necessary steps to advance. As we know, bodybuilding is all about developing a solid base via simplicity before any advanced protocols should be considered. Bodybuilding for the non-elite is all about stages, dedication and time..

The single biggest mistake I see this new generation making over and over again is one, not allowing the body enough time in the growth phase to solidify gains. This also includes a streamlined old-school training routine that is focused with enough volume and training intensity to create new muscle fibers. I HIGHLY recommend a training partner. One that can push and spot you FAR beyond what one is capable off.

The second mistake is related to water and fat accumulation. As one perceives any fat gain, due to the extra carbohydrates and calories the throttles are reversed, and as many can see in their logs, make zero or very little net gains once dieted down.
They then go reaching for more advanced protocols or worthless non-essentials thinking that is the answer.

The simple solution is this. Once you have gotten to the leanest state possible, one needs to stay in that growth zone with enough TIME to make those jumps in notable size. Most WASTE years going round and round in circles listening to other hidden internet failures preaching the grow lean mantra...blah blah blah......

This growth phase should be the most enjoyable part of the journey. You get to eat, you get to train like an caged animal, you get a social life. Do not over-micromanage it!

So embrace the fat and water gain!!! Learn to love it, and you will be rewarded......
 
Sometimes having too much exuberance and not enough patience becomes someones downfall. It is one thing to be passionate, and want to experiment but one cannot jump the gun and skips necessary steps to advance. As we know, bodybuilding is all about developing a solid base via simplicity before any advanced protocols should be considered. Bodybuilding for the non-elite is all about stages, dedication and time.. The single biggest mistake I see this new generation making over and over again is one, not allowing the body enough time in the growth phase to solidify gains. This also includes a streamlined old-school training routine that is focused with enough volume and training intensity to create new muscle fibers. I HIGHLY recommend a training partner. One that can push and spot you FAR beyond what one is capable off. The second mistake is related to water and fat accumulation. As one perceives any fat gain, due to the extra carbohydrates and calories the throttles are reversed, and as many can see in their logs, make zero or very little net gains once dieted down. They then go reaching for more advanced protocols or worthless non-essentials thinking that is the answer. The simple solution is this. Once you have gotten to the leanest state possible, one needs to stay in that growth zone with enough TIME to make those jumps in notable size. Most WASTE years going round and round in circles listening to other hidden internet failures preaching the grow lean mantra...blah blah blah...... This growth phase should be the most enjoyable part of the journey. You get to eat, you get to train like an caged animal, you get a social life. Do not over-micromanage it! So embrace the fat and water gain!!! Learn to love it, and you will be rewarded......
I spent a year and a half on a skinny fat program to get to my "solid base", Im not sure if the program's term and yours are the same thing but I would like to to think so based on what youre saying. I then did a "clean bulk" to get to where I was in the beginning of this cycle. The fat gain is troublesome to me because I dont want to end up having to shred it all off again.
However Im taking your guys advice and trying not to worry about it and I am really glad for these replies. Currently I am taking an ECA stack, 1 day on 1 day off (repeat) since I should embrace the fat lol, what are your thoughts about taking it? Should I drop it? I was also planning to take clen for some time when I get off this cycle, thoughts?
 
A couple things...first, if you're losing fat, you're in a deficit...there are some cases where this may not be true but that wouldn't apply here. That said, you definitely can gain muscle in a deficit. As far as compounds, they won't dictate the outcome. You can get just as shredded as anyone out there on no anabolics just like you can with test solo just like you can with multiple compounds. Anavar is relatively mild, has low sides, and gives a very polished look. As such, it's one of my favorite compounds to have in a cut. Not because it will get you any more shreddd although you may appear slightly drier but because of the look it gives. Personally I wouldn't cut on EQ just because it gives me a large appetite increase but test/anavar is a good option, maybe with the addition of some mast if you want to stay away from the harsh stuff.
anavar @ 50mgEOD last 6 weeks of a cycle, thoughts? I heard about this "polished, dry" look and I am INTRIGUED lol. But with GF's advice in consideration, it will probably be awhile before I add that compound in.... sad but it's ok.
 
anavar @ 50mgEOD last 6 weeks of a cycle, thoughts? I heard about this "polished, dry" look and I am INTRIGUED lol. But with GF's advice in consideration, it will probably be awhile before I add that compound in.... sad but it's ok.

Not really a reason not to. Drugs are a tool so if that's the look you want to achieve then it will do it. I bring it in and out arbitrarily for a few months at a time generally depending on the look I'm going for. It's also more kidney heavy in metabolism so if I'm stacking then I'll typically do that instead of two compounds that put more on the liver.

Low sides, relatively mild, etc. Great drug and easily one of my top 3 probably
 
I spent a year and a half on a skinny fat program to get to my "solid base", Im not sure if the program's term and yours are the same thing but I would like to to think so based on what youre saying. I then did a "clean bulk" to get to where I was in the beginning of this cycle. The fat gain is troublesome to me because I dont want to end up having to shred it all off again.
However Im taking your guys advice and trying not to worry about it and I am really glad for these replies. Currently I am taking an ECA stack, 1 day on 1 day off (repeat) since I should embrace the fat lol, what are your thoughts about taking it? Should I drop it? I was also planning to take clen for some time when I get off this cycle, thoughts?

Believe me you don't have a solid base...It takes years..!!!

Forget ECA, you are on your first cycle, don't burn off calories unnecessarily, they are needed at this stage for growth..

Read my last post again, if you don't understand read again until you do..!!



Train - Eat - Grow..!!!! :X
 
^^ I dont want to click reply for both right now so. Swim: Thanks for info, I also read up that since sides are mild you dont really need to do PCT either? and for GF: I guess then the terms were different.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I guess I'll just continue what Im doing...training,eating, and growing. Updates on cycle: We are on week 3, day 18. (doesnt sound right but lol fuck it, its late) and I can tell you all that libido is the only thing Im really seeing change in my behavior. I cant stop messaging girls to FUCK since monday of this week, finally one said yes FUCKED HER BRAINS out and then just 2 hours later I got horny again and spanked one out. I blame all these young college girls walking around my campus giving me these primal instincts. ANYWAYS I also see some change in my body mass, no acne, no oily skin, and odd enough no shrinkage in the balls...maybe too early for that? I've also noticed some SLIGHT aggression but that may just be because the people I'm around have begun annoying me a lot more frequently. Gains in the gym are still like the previous weeks, improving on almost everything except now Ive noticed my pumps are starting to become much more FULL and I really have to push through some reps because the pump is little too much, most notable in the bi's, pecs, and quads. That is all for updates.
 
Yeah ECA is like shooting yourself in the foot on a bulk mate, stop using it.

Balls won't shrink for a while, and probably won't much anyway as you're on a conservative dose.
 
They are talking about the fact that it takes several years depending on genetics, training, and drug use to form a solid base of muscle maturity. That won't happen in a year and a half, personally I'd say it took me about 4 years looking back.

Some people will prefer different tactics for that with a lot of heavy bulking being the oldest tactic probably. Looking back, I definitely prefer staying lean (12% or less) and adding weight slowly over time and feel a lot better doing it like that. Good to play around though as different things work for different people.

And, no, you absolutely still need a PCT with anavar
 
^ By the sounds of it OP's probably going to gain mass (and fat) fairly easily. You can still bulk heavily without turning into a bloater though. I much prefer staying at around 10-13% bulking; I adjust food/cardio to maintain that rather than popping more pills.

And no, you don't absolutely need a PCT, as discussed before ad infinitum.
 
Yeah going to be mostly dependent on genetics. On the other hand, don't know what OP looks like. I've got friends that stay ~7% and freak over gaining a couple.

Guess I should re-word. Do you NEED a PCT? No, you won't die. However, it's going to recover your test levels in a few weeks as opposed to 8-12 weeks and you'll feel like shit for a much shorter period of time, plenty of blood work to back that. I've done PCT twice and even a couple weeks of feeling like shit was plenty for me.

For comparison, I came off of for a period for an experiment and some blood work but I was off for almost 12 weeks and after that time my levels were under 300 (~290 IIRC) and felt like shit the whole time. With PCT, test levels were around 650 after 4 weeks and felt like shit for 2-3 of those
 
it's going to recover your test levels in a few weeks as opposed to 8-12 weeks and you'll feel like shit for a much shorter period of time, plenty of blood work to back that. I've done PCT twice and even a couple weeks of feeling like shit was plenty for me.

For comparison, I came off of for a period for an experiment and some blood work but I was off for almost 12 weeks and after that time my levels were under 300 (~290 IIRC) and felt like shit the whole time. With PCT, test levels were around 650 after 4 weeks and felt like shit for 2-3 of those

Unfortunately your experiment doesn't prove what you think it does. Just because large elevations of LH/FSH caused by PCT drugs increased your test levels, that doesn't mean, had you stopped using them, that your test levels would have remained so elevated several weeks later. That would be the definition of recovery.

But also, I'm pretty sure you said around <300 was your natural level before you even used AAS? It would seem you recovered just fine without a PCT, it's just that your 'normal' levels are low and unpleasant for you anyway.

I also have plenty of anecdotes: over 15 years of bloodwork on countless guys that lead me to conclude that a standard PCT may temporarily boost test levels for some for as long as they take the drugs. But as soon as they stop, levels drop back to where they were when they came off, plus sometimes some underlying recovery - likely in testes function - that occurred in that time. This is not recovery - it's a band-aid.

On the other hand, I've explored similar experiments with guys who recover well every time, and it's shown that with or without PCT, by about the end of a standard PCT (3-6 weeks) their test levels have normalised anyway. In other words, they can take a PCT and claim "it works," when in fact they would have recovered without it. If you don't do both in a relatively controlled manner, you simply aren't in a position to say that the PCT did anything at all.

Then with the larger (ie not just anecdotal) reviews that I've repeatedly brought up (because we really don't have much more to go on) here and here, we have evidence that a pretty large percentage of guys simply don't recover long-term, despite the overwhelming and prevailing dogma for decades now to perform a standard PCT after a cycle.

And we also have the fact that hypergonadotropic hypogonadism (HH) - the thing most seem to suffer from post-cycle - typically results in chronically elevated LH/FSH levels (which is, incidentally, potentially harmful/neurotoxic). But since the focus of PCT is to raise LH/FSH levels, and most end up with chronically elevated LH/FSH levels post-cycle, I fail to see how that's going to secure long-term recovery for those with already recovered or elevated levels. However, if a blood test demonstrates low LH/FSH, then sure, it's certainly worth a shot doing a PCT, but that's hardly a justification for making it standard practice for everyone.

Furthermore, the struggle with HH in AAS users points to problems with damage to the testes (primary hypogonadism --> failure to fully respond to elevated LH/FSH). Consequently, we can hypothesise that a better form of standard 'PCT' practice and HR advice would be to mitigate damage to the testes' cells that occurs during cycle. With the proposed model (developed mostly from rodent studies) generally assumed to be damage caused by ROS/radicals, much of which is derived from excess oestrogen conversion and assorted downstream metabolites in the testes, the use of antioxidants, low-doses of AAS during cycle, and/or compounds to limit oestrogen conversion would seem helpful approaches for those concerned for their long-term recovery. Low-dose hCG (i.e. 125iu daily) may be another on-cycle option, but there's a massive dispute about that, and even though it appears to maintain testes mass, it doesn't always seem to maintain actual test or sperm levels post-cycle (suggesting it's not necessarily helping germ/Leydig/Sertoli cells).
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately your experiment doesn't prove what you think it does. Just because large elevations of LH/FSH caused by PCT drugs increased your test levels, that doesn't mean, had you stopped using them, that your test levels would have remained so elevated several weeks later. That would be the definition of recovery.

And we also have the fact that hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HH) - the thing most seem to suffer from post-cycle - typically results in chronically elevated LH/FSH levels (which is, incidentally, potentially harmful/neurotoxic). But since the focus of PCT is to raise LH/FSH levels, and most end up with chronically elevated LH/FSH levels post-cycle, I fail to see how that's going to secure long-term recovery for those with already recovered or elevated levels. However, if a blood test demonstrates low LH/FSH, then sure, it's certainly worth a shot doing a PCT, but that's hardly a justification for making it standard practice for everyone.

Furthermore, the struggle with HH in AAS users points to problems with damage to the testes (primary hypogonadism --> failure to fully respond to elevated LH/FSH). Consequently, we can hypothesise that a better form of standard 'PCT' practice and HR advice would be to mitigate damage to the testes' cells that occurs during cycle. With the proposed model (developed mostly from rodent studies) generally assumed to be damage caused by ROS/radicals, much of which is derived from excess oestrogen conversion and assorted downstream metabolites in the testes, the use of antioxidants, low-doses of AAS during cycle, and/or compounds to limit oestrogen conversion would seem helpful approaches for those concerned for their long-term recovery. Low-dose hCG (i.e. 125iu daily) may be another on-cycle option, but there's a massive dispute about that, and even though it appears to maintain testes mass, it doesn't always seem to maintain actual test or sperm levels post-cycle (suggesting it's not necessarily helping germ/Leydig/Sertoli cells).



Hi CFC... I remember Dat discussing post cycle therapy, suggesting "In the first 3 weeks use insulin everyday or attempt to increase local IGF-1 w/ Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRPs or both. Use GHRH/GHRP everyday.."Was this to minimise post cycle muscle breakdown, or due to other effect regarding IGF-1 expression in leydig cells.?

An interesting paper I'm currently reading "Multiple Effects of Growth Hormone in the Body: Is it Really the Hormone for Growth?" states the following:

However, endocrine GH promotes testicular growth and development and stimulates gametogenesis and steroidogenesis in the adult testes. These actions seem to be mediated by IGF-I..

In addition, GH is a potent steroidogenic factor in vitro that stimulates androgen and estradiol production by Leydig cells in a number of species including human beings. In vivo, GH treatment has been seen to improve the production of testosterone induced by chorionic gonadotropin in fertile GHD subjects..

The effects of GH on testicular steroidogenesis may be due to enhancing testicular LH sensitivity and promoting development of Leydig cells..


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5063841/
 
And, no, you absolutely still need a PCT with anavar
Well considering the low dose Im on, 250mg a week of test e, (which doesnt need a pct) and then taking 50mg a day of anavar for 6 weeks (42 days) and possibly tapering off and then taking a good amount of adex during the tapering off. PCT doesnt seem likely to be "needed"..
Also Im at about 12-14% bf right now? Im probably closer to the 14% but honestly this is because of poor diet choices of recent days which I am aware of. Ideally I want to be down at the 9-10% range, love the look of it makes me feel confident. However my goals at the moment are to get bigger and I'm ok with the fat on me. I do believe I'll be able to reach the size I want by end summer of next year...I just wanted to look good while I was getting there lolll (for the ladies) BUT FUCK EM, in the end Im doing this for myself so whatever.
back to PCT though, Im only concerned with MAN BOOBS. Ya can CUT my balls off for all I care, though I would like to have kids in the future it's not of upmost importance to me. So in the end all I'm concerned with is, maintaining gains as much as possible and keeping the estrogen at correct levels to minimize sides.
 
Hi CFC... I remember Dat discussing post cycle therapy, suggesting "In the first 3 weeks use insulin everyday or attempt to increase local IGF-1 w/ Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRPs or both. Use GHRH/GHRP everyday.."Was this to minimise post cycle muscle breakdown, or due to other effect regarding IGF-1 expression in leydig cells.?

Didn't he suggest it for both - a bit of a catch-all, boosting GH/IGF-1/ghrelin activity? It's certainly an option to help improve recovery/fill the anabolic void, assuming it's started post-cycle or use terminated weeks before the end then restarted post-cycle.

An interesting paper I'm currently reading "Multiple Effects of Growth Hormone in the Body: Is it Really the Hormone for Growth?" states the following:

However, endocrine GH promotes testicular growth and development and stimulates gametogenesis and steroidogenesis in the adult testes. These actions seem to be mediated by IGF-I..

In addition, GH is a potent steroidogenic factor in vitro that stimulates androgen and estradiol production by Leydig cells in a number of species including human beings. In vivo, GH treatment has been seen to improve the production of testosterone induced by chorionic gonadotropin in fertile GHD subjects..

The effects of GH on testicular steroidogenesis may be due to enhancing testicular LH sensitivity and promoting development of Leydig cells..


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5063841/

Interesting read - nice review. My original thoughts on the GH-based solution were always along the line of "circulating GH cannot easily access testicular cells within the blood–testis barrier." But if they can pin down the role of ghrelin receptors and whether that aids local IGF-1 expression in the absence of gonadotropins to synergise with, that would be interesting. We have so little data on all this (and virtually none on AAS users), it's really quite annoying.
 
Top