• HEALTH & RECOVERY
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules Thread Directory 1 Thread Directory 2
    Mindfulness Links Addiction & Mind
    Sober Living Partner Program (SLiPP)
  • H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Fast methadone taper help

badbarbiedolly

badbarbiedolly

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Messages
143
Hello everyone! I have been on 100mg MMT for about 3 years. I'm at the highest phase at my clinic ( 13 take homes) and am ready to come off. Problem is I live 1 1/2 hours away so 3 hours driving and to taper down they make you come every day. I can't do that or I will be late for work every day and get fired. So my plan is to taper on my own with the 13 bottles I have left. I should mention that I started MMT because my pain dr disappeared overnight (it was all over our local news) and most of his patients ended up at the clinic due to not being able to get in with a new dr. Also once I tried to get an appointment no one would take me due to the methadone. My primary care dr has prescribed me pain meds to help the transition and I have 3 50mcg patches from before. So, my plan is taper 10mg a day until I'm at around 40mg then use the patches and pills to get off the methadone. After I no longer test positive for methadone then go to the new pain dr. I know I will feel terrible during the process but I have support and just want to know if anyone else has tried something similar? This is my first post so I hope I'm in the right thread. I already tapered 10mg this morning. Please help...

Edit*Please do NOT follow my original taper. It failed! After getting to zero for 9 days it crept up on me and it was the worst. I wasn't holding anything down for days & I'm sure my organs were shutting down. I should have been in the hospital. Now I am tapering very slow an doing better. I can't stress how important it is to do a slow taper. Listen to what expirienced BL's say because they know what they're talking about. My Dr's taper plan and my stubbornness almost killed me.
 
Last edited:
I got off methadone using Kratom. (I got addicted to the Kratom, but that's a different story.) There are people here who would have much better advice than I do in that regard - I was able to slowly taper - before I jumped. But methadone withdrawal is a hard beast to tackle. A slow taper is always preferable over a fast one.
Hopefully some others can chime in with better suggestions.
 
10mg a day is way way too fast. 5mg a week is what I would personally recommend and even that is going to be rough at some parts. Yeah I'm gonna say 5mg a week at first. Yo can then judge for yourself.
 
Thank you for the feedback. I wish I could do this slowly but it's just not an option. If I hve to go daily (which is how they do it when you want to come down) I'd lose my job and wouldn't be able to pay the 450 a month which would cause an admin detox of 10mg a day. I have already came down to 75mg and it's not been great but not terribly sick either. I've read that around 40mg I can switch to a short acting without much problem. Has anyone else tried this? My pcp prescribed a sleep medicine I think it's generic Restoril. I haven't taken it yet as I'm sure I'll need it within the next few days. I did 90mg on wed and thur then 85 fri and this morning took 75. Do you think there's more help on the "other drugs" forum?
 
Hey there I've never tried doing this myself but it seems great in theory and I've read one or two experiences of people who have gotten off Methadone using short acting opiates for a week or two. Those two people had a slew of short acting opiates, as well as Subutex (for the last two or three weeks) to get them through it.

From everything I have researched, Methadone is 3 times stronger than Oxy, so if you're at 70mg Methadone you would need about 210mg of Oxy to feel okay, which kind of is a shit ton! I guess Morphine is even better, even preferred for this sort of thing, but Oxy will work well enough I've read. I don't know if you have the ability to get either of those and in high amounts, but if you do, I think it may just work.

Will you let us all know how it goes? You'll likely have to be off the Methadone for a week or two before it's completely out of your system, right? Your doctor sounds like a good one!! I hope it all goes well!! Take care!
 
Hi Freckle! Wow 210 mg is that a day or at one time several times a day? I have I have 110 oxycodone 20mg so that would have to last until the next time I see my dr in a month. I'm on 70 now from 100 but I plan to decrease 10 mg a day until I'm under 35-40 mg. Yes my dr is great but he really had no idea how to help me. I basically told him what I thought would help and I knew I couldn't get as many as I needed but didn't want to push it because this is my pcp and he could have just said no go to an addiction dr. I will update as I go and thanks for the well wishes!
 
Honestly man your in for some hurt. What your doing is at best a rapid taper. I would normally not recommend the idea of switching to a short acting opiate as its a recipe for relapse but in this case I would say get whatever other opiates you can to cushion the landing.
 
If you have 110 20mg Oxy that is 2200mg total. So if you get down to 35mg of Methadone you'll need about 105mg Oxy throughout the day - so maybe dose 30 @ breakfast 30 @ lunch and 45 @ dinner (to help sleep). If you're able to stick to the 105mg a day of Oxy you could make it last about 20 days. That would give you time to get the Methadone out of your system, I would think. But it takes a few days for the Methadone to stabilize, so I would suggest you stick to 35mg Methadone for at least 4-5 days before you make the switch to Oxy. Then you should be able to make it to the month mark, for when you see your doctor. Just don't over use the Oxy, though or you'll be hurtin' for certain if you run out too early.

I think your doctor sounds just wonderful and you'll be a-okay with the amount of Oxy you have - if you don't over use. I totally understand not wanting to push too far with him. It's amazing he gave you what he did. You don't hear of that happening too often...

Also if you don't need the full 105mg Oxy every day then don't use them, just save them up. You don't want your tolerance to get too high if you don't have to. And if you can taper slower on the Methadone, like 5mg a day it will be much more comfortable for you, especially as you get to a smaller dose. You have to think of it in percentages, rather than just milligrams. Docs usually suggest cutting your dose by 10% a WEEK to remain comfortable, so just keep that in mind.

One last edit, promise!! I don't want you to take my word for the conversion of Methadone to Oxycodone, this is just what I've been able to find through extensive online searching. Maybe call your pharmacist and ask them to help figure it out for you - I'm sure they could help you correctly. I would hate for me to be wrong and you take too much!! Promise me you'll research the conversion rate yourself? And talk to your pharmacist?

Be well!!!
 
Last edited:
Thinkwithportals said:
I got off methadone using Kratom. (I got addicted to the Kratom, but that's a different story.) There are people here who would have much better advice than I do in that regard - I was able to slowly taper - before I jumped. But methadone withdrawal is a hard beast to tackle. A slow taper is always preferable over a fast one.
Hopefully some others can chime in with better suggestions.
Click to expand...

Getting off of methadone and start using Kratom is much more healthier IMO.
The withdrawals from quitting Kratom should be less intense than methadone.
I think you have made a good trade, much less harmfull on a long term use.
 
wow 3 years of MMT... I have never been on methadone for that long but have know people who have. Keep in mind when on it for years it can take a couple weeks to get methadone out of your system after last dose for withdrawl (and possibly for drug test since you mentioned that). When I was on it steady, it took me 10 days to get out of my system and people said I was lucky thats all it took. I always thought it was easier to cut back faster at higher dosages and do by a percentage rather than straight mg. once you start lowering it those mg mean more and cant cut back as quickly. I would try and get to a lower dose as quick as possible as long as you are comfortable / can handle it and then slow down as much as you can with whats left - when you get your dose lower. doing 90 or 100 mg a day those bottles will go quick.

can you keep some take homes from this month, start your taper and not let them know? I did that with subs one time. I kept track of how many I should have and when i went to next appointment I brought only what I should have for counting and kept my stash at home and then got enough that time to finish my taper. if you have to bring back bottles maybe u can store in something else? i dont get why they have to even know about the taper? just keep doing what your doing and taper at your own pace? keep your job and getting clean is what matters
 
Yea I will def do more research. In 2 hours I will be taking 65mg which is 10 less than yesterday. So far it's been tolerable. I'm not sleeping but I never do. I'm that 1 weirdo who's on MMT that can't sleep more than 30 min to an hour at a time. Even at 100 mg it only lasts about 16 hours. So I've always assumed that's why I can't sleep. Thank you so much for all the help. I want to do this and I feel ready but I also know it's going to be hell. Wish me luck!
 
Hi justwannabefree! Your suggestion of continuing to go and get more bottles is originally what I'd planned. But if I've tapered down to say 50 or less and I go get my take homes is still have to drink the 1 dose in front of nurse which would be the 100mg. So I was afraid that would just set me back and re start the whole process. Or worse if od. Would that not be the case? I've done a lot of research but that question was not answered. That would be ideal if I could do it. I'd have a month instead of 2 weeks.
 
Hey erikmen! Unfortunately I live in Tennessee and it's not legal here. I wasn't sure if I could even have it delivered. And really wouldn't want to risk it if I could. Yea 3 years is a long time to be on MMT but im ready to get off of it. It costs 450 a month here and insurance won't cover it. 3 years ago it was 8 dollars a day now it's 16. They go up every few months. It's time, I just wish I could do it differently
 
badbarbiedolly said:
Hi justwannabefree! Your suggestion of continuing to go and get more bottles is originally what I'd planned. But if I've tapered down to say 50 or less and I go get my take homes is still have to drink the 1 dose in front of nurse which would be the 100mg. So I was afraid that would just set me back and re start the whole process. Or worse if od. Would that not be the case? I've done a lot of research but that question was not answered. That would be ideal if I could do it. I'd have a month instead of 2 weeks.
Click to expand...

If you are down to 50mg and have to drink a 100mg bottle Im not sure if that is dangerous or not, never knew anyone who did that. Maybe someone else can answer this.

If you cant drink it, maybe someone has to have at least a decent idea. Getting another month of takehomes would make it so much more doable.
 
This morning I dropped another 10 so I'm now at 65mg and still doing ok. I don't feel good but not sick yet. My goal is to keep doing these drops until around 30-40mg then use the 3 fentanyl patches I have along with the short acting. Hopefully it won't be as bad as not having anything. I have heard it's easier to come off short acting than methadone.
 
Basically, cj's prediction is probably going to turn out to be correct. I mean, who knows what will happen, but quick tapers off methadone are never really comfortable in any sense of the word. At best they're bearable under ideal circumstances, and it sounds like it's been bearable for you thus far. I noticed more from my dose reductions when I started getting bellow 60mg, then again around when I get to 40mg and again when I got to 20mg.

If you have to do a fast methadone taper, I'd suggest the following:

  • Taper as fast as you need to.
  • If you taper becomes uncomfortable, supplement it by using traditional comfort meds such as clonidine and gabapentin. Tramadol is also a very useful medication.
  • When you jump to a shorter acting opioid, you'll have to stay on it for about two weeks to get over the acute withdrawal. Codeine and tramadol are my preferred medications for this purpose, but you can use whatever you have access to.
  • However, instead of just staying on the short acting opioid for your acute withdrawal (which given how you're getting off methadone will be at least 10-14 days), I'd suggest you transition from methadone to a short acting opioid, stay on that only for five to seven days, then transition to a buprenorphine from the short acting opioid and stay on that for two more weeks. This final suggestion will really be the only way to comfortably (more or less) deal with the acute withdrawal, which is more intense with faster tapers.

Keep in mind how incredibly crucial the appropriate comfort medications are for managing detox. In your case these should be, at the very least, clonidine, gabapentin, diazepam (or clonazepam, I prefer diazepam for its muscle relaxant properties), and some kind of non-narcotic sleeping med (such as trazodone). And if you can tolerate ibuprofen, don't underestimate the power of 600-800mg of IBU at handling any aches and pains the prescription comfort meds don't address.

Getting acupuncture, massages, hot saunas, such things are also incredibly useful at helping to mitigate symptoms of acute withdrawal. Under ideal conditions, getting through the acute withdrawal can actually be a fairly enjoyable process. It's just that with the way most doctors operate and the addiction treatment business is set up, we have to work really really hard to create such conditions for ourselves.

If you find you need to use some sort of maintenance style aid once you're off the methadone and detoxed, perhaps to deal with bad cravings, kratom might be useful. But it's important to use it strictly as a maintenance drug if you're doing that, or strictly recreationally if you're doing that, or not at all. It can be easy for some folks to slip into kratom dependency and even use disorder.

Starting to establish a healthy daily routine focused on your entire body's wellbeing now will be incredibly helpful for when you get to the point where you need to rely on it most during the the acute withdrawal and post acute withdrawal.
 
toothpastedog you mention benzos I have generic Restoril but my dr wouldn't give me any for daytime use. He seemed to think the Restoril would help me sleep and I'm also on Lisinopril for high bp so he couldn't give me Clonidine on top of that. I def noticed the drop today I'm hot one minute and freezing the next. Feel like crap but not full blown wds. I'm guessing tomorrow will be worse. I still have a question about the fentanyl patches. Should I just jump off at 30mg and put the patch on or just get as low as possible on the methadone and skip the patches altogether?
 
As long as you're in withdrawal, clonidine in place of Lisinopril might be worth talking to your doctor about. You could use it both to treat your high BP and mitigate the hot/cold flashes of withdrawal. I'd talk to him about that.

You can use temazepam in place of diazepam for the detox, but you'll probably need more than you usually take for sleep. And taking it on the daily isn't really a good idea, particularly at higher dosages.

I'd try just adding gabapentin to your current regiment and see if it helps. It should mitigate 50-75% of any symptoms of withdrawal that are beginning to rear their ugly head that you've begun to experience as you progress in your rather aggressive taper.

How long do you have for the taper? Ideally you should taper down as low as possible, but it you have to go so fast it would probably be easier to transition to a shorter acting opioid around 30mg.

Do you think you can get any buprenorphine? Using that to detox is far and away preferable to just a week or two on a normal full agonist - particularly if it's a shorter acting one like fent. Something like morphine would work better, but buprenorphine or even tramadol would be faaaar and away more useful for getting you through your acute withdrawal as comfortably as possible than something like fent.
 
I'm down to 25mg today and although I feel bad I'm not deathly sick like I thought I'd be. I have dropped 10mg a day and so far it's ok. My back is killing me and I'm very irritable but no vomiting yet. I'm actually shocked that I feel as good as I do I really thought I'd be very sick by now. Is this normal? I don't have an appetite but I'm making myself eat 3 small meals a day and staying hydrated. I dropped 75mg in 8 days and haven't taken any of the short acting that I have. I have enough methadone saved up for when I'm not able to drop 10mg at a time. I can stay on 10 or 5mg or less for a week or more and slowly taper if needed. I'm scared that because I am doing so well that it's really going to be hell when it does get bad.
 
Try not to let expectations get the better of you. I mean, look at the current situation, how much more managible it has been than you originally might have imagined.

Staying hydrated, nutrition, rest and relaxation and some form of activity/exercise (even just going for long walks helps) go further than most imagine to help the situation.

Tapers tend to take on a different character around 10-20mg, so be prepared for that possibility. Other than the methadone you have saved up, what comfort meds do you have available?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top