Demons

[swilow]

What's wrong with Lucifer? The light bearing morning star.

 

[vortech]

The Anti-Christ is already in play in a big way, ever since the Luciferian Rebellion. What we need is some proverbial water on this fire.
Reading parts of the bible has helped me to understand what to look for. There is a hoopla going on right now about Revelation 12 and an astrological alignment that occurs September 21-23 2017, the first such alignment that fits the description in over 4000 years. The last trumpet of the feast of trumpets would also then be significant.
No one can really say what to expect in an end-times scenario, though people love to throw The Rapture concept around. I like to just think 'Aliens.'

Yes Lucifer is the morning star, Christ is also the morning star but referred to as 'The Bright Morning Star'. Think Moon compared to Sun. Moon is just a reflection of the Sun's source, its luminance is an illusion.
For awhile I thought Lucifer had an undeservingly bad rap...I was aligned with it in ways (unknowingly for many years) and attempted to utilize Lucifer's many spiritual gifts for healing instead of personal gain, but ultimately could not wield it in that way safely, at least in the way my circuitry was built at that point. I succumbed and endured great pain for my ignorance. Since learning so much more I understand now the dangers of the Left-hand path and prefer a more middle-path approach.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I spent the last couple days researching the influence of Satanism and Aleister Crowley on rock n' roll (post-mortem) and the connection is pretty disturbing when you start to see it. I've been exposed to this material for a while now but some things I sort of didn't want to see cause it had too many far reaching consequences. Nobody is really eager to realize just how much of it is deception. Look at politics these days though and is it really any surprise.

Starting with Led Zeppelin's iconic Stairway to Heaven song. Some of you may already be familiar with the claim that if you play a portion of this song backwards it has a Satanic message. I know this is true for a fact, I've done the experiment myself on a vinyl disc and heard the words "my sweet Satan" eerily emerge from the background and my friend put this same clip into Abelton and verified that it is true. There is more to the message than that though, it's actually a pretty long message. Check this out (its short)



In interviews Page and Robert Plant claim some of Zeppelin’s songs came to them via occult “automatic handwriting,” including their popular “Stairway to Heaven.” which explains it.

Jimmy Page was a Satanist, black magician, misogynist and overall lowlife.

According to this article and other sources on the internet Aleister Crowley was owner of a property called Boleskin House located in the south-eastern shore of Loch Ness, Scotland where he carelessly opened an interdimensional portal and then abandoned the ritual. Jimmy Page later bought that house.

I quote from the article: exposing-the-satanic-world-order/

The Wickedest Man in the World intentionally allowed an interdimensional portal to remain open after failing to complete the Satanic Abra-Melin ritual.

The Abra-Melin is one of the sternest rituals to prepare for in occultism. The ritual was first described in The Books of Abramelin and then translated into The Sacred Magic of Abramelin by S. L. Mathers in 1899, and employed by Aleister Crowley, in 1904, as a major part of his Thelema magical system.

The prime goal of the magical operation is to obtain the Knowledge and Conversation of the magician’s Holy Guardian Angel.
The time spent in preparation is grueling. The magician is required to work from sunrise to sunset. He has to lead a complete chase life, drink no alcoholic beverages, and be scrupulously fair in all business dealings.
Once this preparation period has successfully completed, after demons have been released, the magician’s Holy Guardian Angel appears to reveal magical secrets.

Then the magician must evoke the Great Princes of Evil in the World (Satan, Lucifer, Leviathan, etc.), their eight sub-princes, and the 316 servitors which will charge previously prepared talismans.
Control over these entities and talismans will enable the magician to satisfy his earthly needs and desires.
After conjuring demons, Crowley was unable or unwilling to complete the ritual or simply decided to stop mid-stream, intentionally loosing demons upon the Our own dimension via the inter-dimensional portal he opened at Boleskine House, on Loch Ness.
Boleskine House is located on the south-eastern shore of Loch Ness, close to the village of Foyers, Inverness shire, Scotland. The mansion was constructed in the late 18th century by Archibald Fraser. The current house was constructed in the 18th century by Archibald Fraser as a hunting lodge.

The house was situated on a hillside above a graveyard, which had acquired a reputation for unusual activities long before Crowley purchased it dating back to a 10th-century Scottish kirk. Boleskine House was built over the site where a full congregation perished when their Church burned to the ground.

I've fact checked this with other sources. Point is a lot of fucked up shit went down. Aleister Crowley was one of the key enablers of this. He did some truly wicked shit and the world is still paying for it today. I could go on for a while about it.

 

[psy997]

In regards to the anti-christ topic I was referencing disclosure, yep.

And Crowley, totally. From what I've read he was the beginning of the huge downfall we've seen since the beginning of the 20th century, him opening a ton of shit allowing a lot more darkness in. The Boleskin story though, damn.

 

[jammin83]

I like to see that some of you are beginning to speak my language here. theres no place like BL and it warms my black little heart.

 

[Xorkoth]

I watched the video. I can't speak to the satanist claims about them, because I didn't know them. I think that a few things in there that the video was claiming were the words definitely sound like what they said but a lot of it is reaching IMO. Sometimes words sound like other words backwards. I want to hear a "backwards record satanic message" actually sound convincingly like one. I'm not claiming to know either way as to specifically whether Stairway to Heaven has a Satanic message implanted in it, but I doubt it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You can explain the backwards playing away. Certainly without the text there, eyes closed it'd take a while to find a correspondence between the music played backwards but once you have the text it becomes more clear. Some is indisputable, other sentences take a bit more loose of an interpretation of the sound, but it's there. It helps to know the story of Satan and how those words are meaningful both forwards and backwards. When you start adding up all the evidence around it it becomes hard to dispute. At least for me. Like I said earlier, I've been exposed to these ideas before and the natural tendency is to want to dispute it, take a skeptical stance and second guess yourself. That's the natural response and I spent years on Bluelight doing just that to some of the more outrageous ideas presented in the P&S. Only recently have I been able to stomach going down that rabbit hole.

Also as relates to Crowley:

The backwards playing of records was advised as training for magicians by occultist Aleister Crowley, who suggested in his 1913 book Magick (Book 4) that an adept "train himself to think backwards by external means", one of which was to "listen to phonograph records, reversed".

From Wikipedia Article on Backmasking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backmasking

This practice was apparently very common in the industry.

Interestingly, Pallindromes are a common form of Satanic expression (reads the same backwards as forwards). Nothing against Pallindromes, but of all the Pallindromes I've found, the Satanic ones are usually the best. Try your hand at one. They're really tricky.

From: Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas!

Don't nod
Dogma: I am God
Never odd or even
Too bad – I hid a boot
Rats live on no evil star
No trace; not one carton
Was it Eliot's toilet I saw?
Murder for a jar of red rum
May a moody baby doom a yam?
Go hang a salami; I'm a lasagna hog!
Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas!
A Toyota! Race fast... safe car: a Toyota
Straw? No, too stupid a fad; I put soot on warts
Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?
Doc Note: I dissent. A fast never prevents a fatness. I diet on cod
No, it never propagates if I set a gap or prevention
Anne, I vote more cars race Rome to Vienna
Sums are not set as a test on Erasmus
Kay, a red nude, peeped under a yak
Some men interpret nine memos
Campus Motto: Bottoms up, Mac
Go deliver a dare, vile dog!
Madam, in Eden I'm Adam
Oozy rat in a sanitary zoo
Ah, Satan sees Natasha
Lisa Bonet ate no basil
Do geese see God?
God saw I was dog
Dennis sinned

 

[RDP89]

OP, I would get a mental health evaluation, it sounds like you were hallucinating.

 

[tokezu]

I see a fundamental problem with these alleged hidden messages, the same I see with a lot of speculation about powerful conspiracies. Were we supposed to clearly understand the message when played backwards? Then they didn't do a very good job. Listening to that video without looking at the text it showed all I could make out was a couple of possible 'satans' and something that sounded somewhat like 'middle path'. Or weren't we supposed to notice anything even when played backwards? Then they didn't do a very good job either, because (suppose it's actually there) some people do notice it. So are they just not that good at controlling our minds and the rest of the world? In that case any conspirator with half a brain would do anything to stay completely in the shadows until world domination is achieved. Any evidence you might find would be recognizable as them slipping up rather than purposefully planted messages. I can't imagine where they would even find the time for such things, when there are all these children (was it hundreds of thousands?) that have to be ritually sacrificed. That must take an awful lot of time out of their schedule. (Sorry satanic panic is sooo 80s.)

People need to be aware that we always find patterns when we start looking for them, that's how our brains work. You always have to be very vigilant about the fact that you might have seen a pattern where there was really none (or maybe just a far more complicated one than you thought).

And I am surprised Crowley still scares people. Half the time he was only making fun of the "good christians" by using the exact language he knew would get a rise out of them.

 

[Jabberwocky]

So what exactly is your stance on Crowley if I may ask Tokezu. You practice the magick?

 

[tokezu]

My stance on Crowley? He's an interesting read for sure, but I'm not a follower of Thelema or anything like that. I really don't see the need to 'follow' anyone/anything. I sure as hell wouldn't want to hang out with him, he doesn't seem to have been a very nice person.

I'm not sure exactly what "the magick" means. I guess I practice "magick" as much or as little as any other person in the world.

 

[psy997]

The context surrounding the Stairway to Heaven backtracking is really what changes it from a crazy coincidence to something believable for me.

The fact that Crowley was one of Jimmy Page's idols, his persona also revered by The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, and other huge bands of the time. Compounded with the fact that the decapitated and pulled apart baby dolls on the Beatles album cover for Yesterday and Today are a symbol publicly known to be associated with the Rothschilds and occult/secret societies. Not to mention the obvious association baby dolls have with children, their use by secrety societies well known. Compounded with the fact that Jimmy Page and Robert Plant describe the writing of Stairway to have happened automatically, the notes and words just coming forth. Again, with Jimmy Page having a borderline obsession with Crowley, AA, OTO, and related, even allegedly practicing magick himself. To clarify, as far I can tell not necessarily malevolently, but out of curiosity and respect for the alleged powers and benefits of doing so. Compounded by the fact that Jimmy Page bought the house that Crowley had formerly lived in, allegedly opening and failing to close a powerful spell within. The house and estate haunted by numerous deaths and misfortunes after, not to mention the misfortunes already associated with the land and adjoining cemetery dating back almost 1000 years to the burning of a church and death of it's congregation on the same spot. And on and on. Compounded by the fact that Page inscribed “Do what thou wilt. So mete it Be." on his vinyl of Led Zeppelin III, Crowley's signature phrase received from the entity Aiwass and transcribed in his The Book of Law.

Apparently Page was hired to compose the music for Kenneth Anger, film artist and Magus of the Order of the Golden Dawn who popularized Crowley within the industry, but was fired after years of dragging on and never getting any work done. After which suffering numerous injuries, the term Anger's Curse being coined, and Page's subsequent shitting on Anger in the media and then collapsing on stage due to unbearable and unexplained pain. Etc. etc.

The fact that inversion is one of the biggest symbols in occult and secret societies. It's meaning multi-faceted and immense. Backtracking an obvious and explicit inversion of soundwaves.

The fact that the real lyrics say not to worry if there's a bustle in your hedgerow, it's just spring cleaning for the May Queen. The May Queen not only the name of a poem written by Owsley, but also a reference to the ancient pagan worshipping in the month of May, as well as May holding other significant meanings for the Occult (can't remember exactly from all my reading ATM, may find later, but May is huge). The act of not worrying about a bustle, because it's just the may queen, a seeming message not to worry about anything off or wrong, don't be afraid. A subliminal message not to worry about anything, all the while saying for those that understand that it is Luciferian.

The fact that the lines in the song talk about two paths you can go down, and in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on. Obvious spiritual and occult references there.

The line in the backtracking speaking of a toolshed in which Satan made us suffer, an obvious reference to the falling of man. The fruit of knowledge. Interference with man by non-human entities using tools, ie. genetic manipulation. Etc.


I'd actually never put any thought into the backtracking before, but after last night and years of research plus hours yesterday as well, it's pretty obvious to me it's no coincidence if you know what to look for.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks @Tozoku

Great analysis Psy997. The additional symbolism for the month of May is likely the spring equinox, which is a Satanic Holiday [source: The Satanic Bible].

See link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_holidays

Dark rituals are often performed on these holidays due to the additional amplification they receive.

 

[Xorkoth]

You can explain the backwards playing away. Certainly without the text there, eyes closed it'd take a while to find a correspondence between the music played backwards but once you have the text it becomes more clear.

But this is the very definition of the power of suggestion.

The fact that the lines in the song talk about two paths you can go down, and in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on. Obvious spiritual and occult references there.

I don't think this obviously has anything to do with the occult whatsoever. Many, many pieces of music reference spiritual goals or themes, or advice in life. To me this statement is clearly saying you can take multiple paths in life, but you can always change the one you're on. Also, what does a toolshed have to do with anything? Is it a reference to someone else's writing or mythology regarding satan meeting someone in a toolshed? If not, why does "toolshed" mean anything in the context of this supposed statement? Also for the record the "toolshed" word is one of those I did not hear at all when I listened. There was only one statement that really sounded that way but the timing and inflection makes me believe it just so happened to sound like that.

Anyway there may very well be esoteric references (I can buy the may queen thing and also that there was a connection with Crowley), but that doesn't mean there is a secret backwards message to hail satan.

The reason I cited "I didn't know them" as the reason for being skeptical is because there's an incredible amount of "information" on the Internet that appears legitimate that isn't (see crystallinks.com for some great examples, which I see people citing as evidence of things too). You can't believe everything you read.

For the record I'm not trying to be confrontational about it, it could be true, just adding my thoughts on the matter.

 

[jammin83]

The context surrounding the Stairway to Heaven backtracking is really what changes it from a crazy coincidence to something believable for me.

The fact that Crowley was one of Jimmy Page's idols, his persona also revered by The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, and other huge bands of the time. Compounded with the fact that the decapitated and pulled apart baby dolls on the Beatles album cover for Yesterday and Today are a symbol publicly known to be associated with the Rothschilds and occult/secret societies. Not to mention the obvious association baby dolls have with children, their use by secrety societies well known. Compounded with the fact that Jimmy Page and Robert Plant describe the writing of Stairway to have happened automatically, the notes and words just coming forth. Again, with Jimmy Page having a borderline obsession with Crowley, AA, OTO, and related, even allegedly practicing magick himself. To clarify, as far I can tell not necessarily malevolently, but out of curiosity and respect for the alleged powers and benefits of doing so. Compounded by the fact that Jimmy Page bought the house that Crowley had formerly lived in, allegedly opening and failing to close a powerful spell within. The house and estate haunted by numerous deaths and misfortunes after, not to mention the misfortunes already associated with the land and adjoining cemetery dating back almost 1000 years to the burning of a church and death of it's congregation on the same spot. And on and on. Compounded by the fact that Page inscribed “Do what thou wilt. So mete it Be." on his vinyl of Led Zeppelin III, Crowley's signature phrase received from the entity Aiwass and transcribed in his The Book of Law.

Apparently Page was hired to compose the music for Kenneth Anger, film artist and Magus of the Order of the Golden Dawn who popularized Crowley within the industry, but was fired after years of dragging on and never getting any work done. After which suffering numerous injuries, the term Anger's Curse being coined, and Page's subsequent shitting on Anger in the media and then collapsing on stage due to unbearable and unexplained pain. Etc. etc.

The fact that inversion is one of the biggest symbols in occult and secret societies. It's meaning multi-faceted and immense. Backtracking an obvious and explicit inversion of soundwaves.

The fact that the real lyrics say not to worry if there's a bustle in your hedgerow, it's just spring cleaning for the May Queen. The May Queen not only the name of a poem written by Owsley, but also a reference to the ancient pagan worshipping in the month of May, as well as May holding other significant meanings for the Occult (can't remember exactly from all my reading ATM, may find later, but May is huge). The act of not worrying about a bustle, because it's just the may queen, a seeming message not to worry about anything off or wrong, don't be afraid. A subliminal message not to worry about anything, all the while saying for those that understand that it is Luciferian.

The fact that the lines in the song talk about two paths you can go down, and in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on. Obvious spiritual and occult references there.

The line in the backtracking speaking of a toolshed in which Satan made us suffer, an obvious reference to the falling of man. The fruit of knowledge. Interference with man by non-human entities using tools, ie. genetic manipulation. Etc.


I'd actually never put any thought into the backtracking before, but after last night and years of research plus hours yesterday as well, it's pretty obvious to me it's no coincidence if you know what to look for.

i was about to go here in the other thread. beltane and mayday.

this guy is the only guy on youtube that i really like. he is a skilled researcher and his channel is no longer up. you might find this interesting.

 

[tokezu]

levels, sure no problem. I'm not really that knowledgable about Crowley, but I always had the impression that people don't appreciate the humorous nature of his writing enough. If you think he truly believed everything he said and wrote, then you are crazier than him. No offense. And it's tokezu. But don't worry about it, it seems somehow my name is giving a lot of people trouble. :D

psy997, that's very interesting, but I'm not sure what exactly you're arguing for. Could it just be a sophisticated in-joke for occultists? Or is there some nefarious shadowy group of satanists behind it that are commiting the most horrible crimes like some here seem to argue?

Look I understand, there is some sick, sick stuff going on in our world. And it's totally natural to want to make a degree of separation between yourself and "those evil people". A lot of people say (regular, non-satanic) child molesters are not even real humans and should just be put to death. Similar to that some here seem to argue that there is evil going on here that is just beyond human in scope. Sorry to be blunt, but tbh I think that is a cop out. As hard as it is to face, those most horrible crimes that you can imagine are commited by humans just like you and me. And as long as we can't accept the fact that humans can do these horrible things all on their own, no evil archons or whatever needed, we can't even begin to adress that as a problem.
Now if you are using Satan or the archons or whatever otherworldy influence as a metaphor for those situational forces created by cruel societes that bring out the very worst in a human, I can kind of see it. But it seems to be a rather misleading metaphor that is all too easy taken literally.

 

[psy997]

First may I just say, what a great thread we have going here :D

I don't think this obviously has anything to do with the occult whatsoever. Many, many pieces of music reference spiritual goals or themes, or advice in life. To me this statement is clearly saying you can take multiple paths in life, but you can always change the one you're on. Also, what does a toolshed have to do with anything? Is it a reference to someone else's writing or mythology regarding satan meeting someone in a toolshed? If not, why does "toolshed" mean anything in the context of this supposed statement? Also for the record the "toolshed" word is one of those I did not hear at all when I listened. There was only one statement that really sounded that way but the timing and inflection makes me believe it just so happened to sound like that.

So I just went and relistened and to me the more recognizable words of the last bit are only "toolshed...made us suffer sad satan".

In regards to the toolshed and what I'm about to say, you'll most likely call bullshit if you haven't been introduced to any of these ideas before. That being said, it's pretty commonly known in certain circles that humanity has deviated from our original "holy" / "pure" / "divine" genetic blueprint due to genetic manipulation by otherworldly entities, both physical and metaphysical. Our original place as divine creators, co-creating with universe/Sophianic Dream, tainted by the introduction of foreign genetics in our DNA and tampering with of the energy/consciousness of Earth/Gaia as a whole. Leading both to the past 10,000-12,000 years of human violence, aggression, and dis-ease and disharmony of the planet's energies and overall state as well.

Most angels in Christian scripture actually negatively oriented beings (these negatively oriented / evil / Luciferian / Demonic / Service to Self / STS, however you want to call them - categorized by hierarchy, violence, conflict, ego, the belief that one is better than another, etc. beings masters of illusion and deception, and again thus, inversion) posing as divine angels of light and God with the agendas of "enslaving" humans to their false perceptions based in STS/Luciferian ways. Check out the Amazon description of the book Not In His Image for more on the Christian side of things and how it pertains to the bible. There are a few key scriptures that make obvious the fact that the god worshipped by modern day Christians is in fact a deception and false god, perpetuated in "evil" by the Saviour-Saved Complex (the falsity here in the subliminal implanting of the belief that something external is needed, a savior is needed, to save oneself, to reach awakening of one's true potential), the falsity of achieved perfection (implanting of the idea that by virtue and good will one may attain god-like status in this life - perfection - thus always propagating human suffering through the inevitable failing of reaching perfection in one's own eyes, those of another, or "God's"), and more. Melchizedek is key here.

Basically, humanity has been subverted and made to believe we are violent, aggressive, unhappy with ourselves, needing of external anythings, and whatever else you can think of as the commonly accepted "human condition" as a way to enslave us and be used for the agenda of other higher dimensional beings. The original Christians were actually fully aware of this, the Gnostics, and termed these beings the Archons. Again, Not In His Image is all about this. Modern Christianity seems to have sprouted from an extreme right early Christian sect called the Zaddikites that because of their fervor and aggression, as well as believing of themselves to be the true believers and chosen ones of god, murdered and devoured the numerous of the day gnostic, pagan, and related mystery school sects and spread across the world. It's an incredibly sad and disillusioning story really.

I could go on and on, it's really a huge subject. Unfortunately it doesn't really get you anywhere if you're not ready for hearing it though. But back to the asked question of the toolshed, it is a metaphor for the intentional and malevolent manipulation of the human genome by the higher dimensional beings that seek to enslave us. Making us suffer in a toolshed, toolsheds used as places to manipulate and create objects with tools, etc., surely you see the connection here without more explanation whether or not you think I'm crazy by this point or not, yes?


Ideas pertaining to this general topic being the Annunaki, other legends of beings descending from heaven, the moon being a foreign satellite introduced to our solar system not so long ago, ie. stories from ancient cultures of times before the moon, the moon being brought here by chariots in the sky, as well as stories of how the moon actually influences and/or controls us (new and full moon ceremonies used to not be celebrations as they are now in new age circles, but instead rituals to protect against it's influence), genetic manipulation of the human genetic blueprint, archonic influence, gnosticism, and more. I'm trying to brainstorm general topics here but that's all that's coming to mind atm. It's a huge subject.

I'm glad to share more if you'd like. I know it sounds absolutely insane, and I wouldn't believe it had the past years not lined up and lead me to where they did, but they have, and now I can't unsee certain things. I fully expect you not to believe any of this, but if you'd like clarification or further readings I'm glad to help.

psy997, that's very interesting, but I'm not sure what exactly you're arguing for. Could it just be a sophisticated in-joke for occultists? Or is there some nefarious shadowy group of satanists behind it that are commiting the most horrible crimes like some here seem to argue?

Look I understand, there is some sick, sick stuff going on in our world. And it's totally natural to want to make a degree of separation between yourself and "those evil people". A lot of people say (regular, non-satanic) child molesters are not even real humans and should just be put to death. Similar to that some here seem to argue that there is evil going on here that is just beyond human in scope. Sorry to be blunt, but tbh I think that is a cop out. As hard as it is to face, those most horrible crimes that you can imagine are commited by humans just like you and me. And as long as we can't accept the fact that humans can do these horrible things all on their own, no evil archons or whatever needed, we can't even begin to adress that as a problem.
Now if you are using Satan or the archons or whatever otherworldy influence as a methaphor for those situational forces created by cruel societes that bring out the very worst in a human, I can kind of see it. But it seems to be a rather misleading metaphor that is all too easy taken literally.

It is a very hard line to draw, between justification / blame and true fault. That being said, while your position is more than commendable and your respect for my, to most people seemingly crazy, beliefs admirable and appreciated, unfortunately there's just no room at all for me to believe that it is simply a metaphor. After personal experiences, hearing and reading those of others, and hundreds of hours of research into a huge variety of topics both directly and indirectly related, it is simply undeniable that there are beings existing in ways we cannot imagine, some of which using that position of imperceptivity for their own agendas to the discord and detriment of mankind. Evil is a choice, and not all evil is archonic. As humans we are unique in that we may create and choose whether to be divine or whether to be evil. Yet, this does not mean that all evil is of man's direct and intentional accord and uninfluenced by factors unaware to him.

At the end of the day though, the most beautiful thing is that one may apply these concepts to one's own benefit and growth regardless of belief, as long as one is able to connect the story to his own and his own perception of humanity's own story. These ideas of the falling of man, inversion of what is right into wrong and wrong into right, ability for the universe to manifest influencing situations and encounters to one's own detriment or growth, etc. are all invaluable as tools for understanding the path of growth for one's soul or being.

 

[Xorkoth]

I like ideas like what you put forth, and indeed I would love to believe that all the horrible things evident in our nature are due to alien manipulation. There wads a time when I did believe them as I believed most theories along these lines (it was because I really, really wanted to believe them, mostly). Unfortunately the evidence suggests that even in the times when homo sapiens and other humanlike species such as neanderthals coexisted, humans did the same thing we do now, which is to rape and pillage them, take them over, kill them. Modern humans have neanderthal DNA to varying degrees, and some populations also have denisovan DNA. There is also evidence, especially in some cultures, of extreme violence against other humans. I think the reason we experience these things still today, and why there are sociopathic power mongers who rape the population and planet for accrual of wealth or power, isn't due to extraterrestrial or demonic influence but due to our DNA reaching as far back as we can see. Chimps do it too. Interestingly bonobos, an extremely close relative of chimpanzees, do not display this aggressive and violent behavior. But most great apes do, including ourselves.

Basically, humanity has been subverted and made to believe we are violent, aggressive, unhappy with ourselves, needing of external anythings, and whatever else you can think of as the commonly accepted "human condition" as a way to enslave us and be used for the agenda of other higher dimensional beings.

The entities utilizing these properties behavior to enslave us are, sadly, sociopathic humans. There are quite a few of them, but the vast majority of us are not. Unfortunately, the sociopaths are the ones who seek this power over others. You or I have no desire for such things and would never attempt to manipulate people this way.

 

[psy997]

Yes, agreed. However, there is a difference in unconscious violence and conscious violence. The ways of nature are both life and death, and there are elements of violence, conflict, unwarranted aggression and the like within the bounds of seemingly uninfluenced nature (seemingly because who's to say!). But there is a difference there between natural competition for resources, genetic progression through reproduction, etc. and conscious and intentional aggressions, enslavements, and the like as experienced now. There are different lessons to be learned at each stage of evolution and to argue that genetic manipulation and resultant increased psychopathic tendencies are false because of an existence of similar behaviors in less evolved creatures is comparing apples to oranges. Each parallel action rooted in both different intentions and different lessons to be learned, metaphorically and consciously speaking.

The argument is not that mankind was and always has been a beacon of light and was only ruined once influenced with externally, as once again that falls into the Savior complex, albeit inverted in that instead of saving it's destroying. But that mankind through evolution had reached a place of relative stability, having created many civilizations of advanced natures similar but much different than we see now, and then yes, was tricked, and allowed to be tricked by his own accord and free will choice to belief in what he was tricked by.

Not the most coherent second paragraph but whatever! Great conversation

 

[Xorkoth]

There are different lessons to be learned at each stage of evolution and to argue that genetic manipulation and resultant increased psychopathic tendencies are false because of an existence of similar behaviors in less evolved creatures is comparing apples to oranges.

While I did make the comparison to our closest evolutionary relative, which is a bit like comparing apples to asian pears anyway (or something like that), my main point was that our own history is absolutely littered with violence and imperialism back as far as humans have been "modern". Unless the extraterrestrials changed us a million years ago, long before the advent of civilization, it seems like this isn't being taken into account. With civilization came the ability to more fully exert control over others, as the populations were much larger and there was infrastructure, mass communication, etc. Same as today, if the infrastructure somehow collapsed and we all went back to living without technology and civilization, the power mongers would be back to dominating a tribe and warring with each other on a small scale.

I just think that to attribute these things to an external force is to give up on our own power and responsibility to change ourselves. It puts us in the role of the victim.

Great conversation

Indeed.