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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

(4-HO-EPT/65 mg) - Third Time - Into the Psyche

Kaleida

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Sep 6, 2015
Messages
2,416
This was my third experience with 4-HO-EPT. After my previous two trials of taking this chemical orally I had decided that I might want to try a harder-hitting route of administration next if I really wanted to get a full trip out of it, but today came and I had time to trip and I just felt that I would rather sacrifice a little extra of my supply to just get that fuller, longer-lasting, finally complete version of the 4-HO-EPT experience. In the end I would say that I was quite happy with this decision, as this 65 mg oral dose definitely did feel much more full than my past trips on it, and gave me pretty much everything I think I really needed out of this particular psychedelic experience.

My previous experience with psychedelics includes DMT, MET, MiPT, DiPT, DALT, Psilocybe cubensis, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, 4-HO-McPT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MET, 4-AcO-DET, 4-AcO-DALT, 5-HO-DMT, 5-MeO-MiPT, 5-MeO-DALT, Ipomoea tricolor, Argyreia nervosa, LSD, ETH-LAD, 2C-B, 2C-I, DOC, and MDMA. My most recent trip was fifteen days before this on 25 mg of 4-HO-McPT, which had only produced a very mild effect.

My headspace was a little different going into this trip than it is for the reports I usually write, so I feel that I should take a moment to explain some of that as well. While I have never been diagnosed with anything, I appear to have some sort of mood disorder, as I tend to feel things very strongly and for a very long time, and often following different sorts of triggers in my life. Stress appears to be one of the things that can make me more manic, and certain substances seem to push me a little further out there too, like cannabis often keeps me relatively hypomanic when I smoke it daily. Lately it has become clear to me though that alcohol might be one of my triggers for depression, even though the drunken phase itself generally has me more manic than normal. I had this trip coming off of a couple weeks of vacation and partying including a night where I drank relatively heavily for the first time in quite a while, and again, though that night had been fine, since then I had definitely been feeling a dip in my moods, and the hypomania that I had sustained pretty well for the last few months became sorely missed. After about a week or so after that night it got to the point where I could no longer ignore the fact that my thought trains seemed to be annoyingly stubborn in taking me down more negative trajectories than I'd dealt with in some time.

Stack this on top of the fact that life has just been sort of an emotional roller coaster for me for the past couple of weeks, with things happening both locally and globally that I'm both very happy and very sad about, and the fact that I just knew it was getting to me as I was having increasing urges to do things like drink or take random pills, and I realized that I had to do something about it. Knowing of course just how healing psychedelics can be in these matters, these thoughts then are what led me to try my highest dose yet with what is rapidly becoming one of my new favorite substances, and particularly after this experience.

So, here we go.

T+0:00 - I took 65 mg orally with water and a graham cracker. It had the usual bitter taste, but was also oddly sweet. Unfortunately I pushed it pretty much all around my mouth without trying to so the flavor was pretty strong, but the graham cracker did get rid of it pretty easily.

T+0:10 - Unlike my doubts with my last two 4-HO-EPT experiences, I was definitely already feeling something strong building up this quickly the way I would expect to with something like 4-HO-MET or 4-HO-MPT. I became excited for what was to come, and I decided to get in the shower to kill some time and help my body feel nice.

T+0:45 - During the shower I was actually coming up pretty hard, all things considered. One notable thing is that this did indeed carry on the trend of the lower doses of having almost no geometric visuals compared to other strong psychedelics, there were some shapes and colors pulsing around that were pretty interesting but they were fleeting and generally only in the corners of surfaces or textures, and with eyes closed nothing of that sort was really happening yet. But, despite that, my mind was starting to go wild. This was no longer the more lighthearted trip accessible with lower doses, my thoughts were in a full whirlwind of bouncing from one line to the next, moving rapid-fire through different topics like my emotions and forms of self-regulations, to media like television shows, to recent politics, but going so quickly as to only hop through each one without really developing into anything further, and creating lots of hectic and concrete but cartoony mental imagery to go along with it all.

When it came to be almost exactly forty-five minutes after dosing, this heavy mental phase calmed down dramatically and I felt almost sober again, other than the fact that I definitely had a very buzzy body high and dreamy head feeling still going on. This reminded me very much of my past 4-HO-EPT experiences and prompted me to try smoking cannabis at this point now, instead of waiting a full hour like before, as I felt that this might be where the come up phase really ends and therefore leads into the peak.

T+1:15 - From this point on, time stamps should be considered to be close approximations. After I started smoking the cannabis, I finally reached a point with this chemical where I was too swept up into the trip to remember or care about the passage of time. This initial part is definitely the hardest to remember or describe, because it really was far out there and still very, very much centered in the mind and emotions as opposed to being expressed in any hallucinogenic way. Even the faint visuals I got on my past trips now seemed less prevalent but instead manifested as my imagination becoming extremely vivid, colorful, and intense, but still not really "seen" except in the mind's eye. Honestly, though I have no experience with this to say for sure, it reminded me the most of what I've read about 5-MeO-DMT, with the trip being so difficult to explain because it goes so deep into the self despite being so lacking in the hallucinogenic aspect, because it was basically just the most complex or ineffable effects of a strong psychedelic without much solid to really grab on to in retrospect.

What I can say in relation to something I have experienced is that the specific types of visions I was getting were of a kind that is extremely recognizable to me, because they were very much of a same kind I also get from high doses of LSD and 4-HO-MPT, much more so than anything else I've taken. For me, when I do get them they are invariably felt as the most hedonistic and stimulating visions I experience from any high, they constantly push my libido or cause my whole body to become overwhelmed with bliss or other such wonderful things for the entire time they're around. These kinds of things I also felt hints of on the lower doses of 4-HO-EPT so it's not too surprising, but I really was blown away with the intensity of them, and the fact that they brought along with them that entire combined headspace I'm used to, as opposed to 4-HO-MiPT for instance which brought me to only a very watered-down version of them. The 4-HO-EPT though, it was all the way there.... It was beautiful, penetrating, structured, and just overall remarkable. I found myself near spasming and breathing deeply just from how powerfully satisfying the whole thing was, my body could barely take it anymore.

About half way through this phase I also started listening to music, a few my old psychedelic favorites just to gauge my headspace and where the trip was at, and this was also a fantastic idea. The music enhancement I had noticed with lower doses was now reaching a full-blown euphoria of its own, I was laughing and rolling around and feeling like my body was just disappearing entirely into the bliss, and dancing through as much of it as I could even when I was lying down in bed. This was definitely one of my favorite parts of the trip, and it just made the aforementioned effects even deeper and more interesting. However, after I took off my headphones to relax for a minute I could hear my roommate making a bunch of noise in the living room, so I decided to go out and join him.

T+1:35 - I've enjoyed interacting with him, but it's still relatively difficult and I feel pretty heavy just wandering around the room. As I attempted to explain the experience to him it became more obvious to me just how out of it I really was, as I couldn't generally get out more than a few words to describe any given thought at one time. I basically told him that it was pretty fascinating because it felt deep like a powerful LSD trip, but I still couldn't get over the fact that it had basically no hallucinations of any kind other than in the mind's eye. I listened to a bit of what was going on his day too, but it became increasingly harder to follow with time, and eventually I decided to escape back into my room as he was doing chores.

T+2:25 - I went through a couple phases of listening to music and then wandering back out in the living room, but I never ended up staying and just retreated to my psychedelic cave. It was much more enjoyable to just get lost in the mental aspect of the experience and the sensory enhancement than try to do anything on it, though there was a decent amount of stimulation I was feeling as well, just not enough to overcome the heaviness or feeling of disconnection. It's notable as well that while I was in there I did notice a few more strong, fleeting visuals on surfaces, things that were highly detailed and complex to a level that many psychedelic visuals aren't, but they still only took up a very limited amount of space and could not be brought out consistently.

T+2:55 - I decided to try the solo sexual effects of this chemical, as I honestly had been avoiding it but I just couldn't help myself, the high felt so erotic and gave me so much craving. There was definitely a feeling to the whole thing that I've heard others describe with certain tryptamines where it feels like it increases both your desire for dopamine and the reward you get from receiving it.... I can't speak to the accuracy of the neurochemical aspect of that, but I definitely get what they're trying to say: it makes you want that feel good feel, and want it bad. Accordingly, the physical stimulation was pretty satisfying right from the start, and the orgasm was mind-numbing in a way similar to how it has been on some of my best LSD experiences. Definitely a winner in that respect! Afterwards I definitely felt way too sweaty for how I like to be while tripping that hard though, so I decided to take another shower.

T+3:15 - I finished my shower, which was again quite nice, and re-emerged to hang out with my roommate some more. He was also smoking a bit at that point, so I took my first hit of cannabis since before, when I had finished like half a bowl that had been dumped out since then. Over the next hour I talked to him a bit more until he left to do some more chores, and then I ordered lunch and just relaxed and considered how incredible I still felt. I definitely felt as though I was past the heaviest part of the trip now, but I was no in no way coming down. I was still feeling a lot of body and mind euphoria on a level that most other psychedelics have not been able to bring me to as of yet.

T+4:10 - The food arrives, a tuna sandwich and chips, and I eat it with much excitement. It was extremely delicious, though it always is. Afterwards I decided to load the rest of the bowl from before back into the bong and finish smoking it while watching The Office, and just thinking back on what a fascinating trip it had been.

T+4:40 - At this point my roommate had returned but wasn't feeling good, so he way lying down in bedroom while I was just spaced out on the couch. I noticed that when I stared at the carpet I still started getting some visuals pretty quickly, and relatively strong though nothing too distinct. Mostly things like pieces of textures moving around, or the whole carpet sort of pulsing in waves or breaths. Still, it was enough to feel like I'm certainly still on a psychedelic.

T+5:45 - I had some other plans for the day as well, and at this point I felt good to drive, so I stopped really attempting to take notes. I still didn't feel 100% back to normal for honestly most of the day, but I wasn't too out of it to function anymore.

T+12:30 - I'm eating dinner, and the cannabis I've been smoking has definitely been keeping the high going it, but I'm still feeling it somewhat. The body is still heavy and buzzing, and when I relax my vision unfocuses more easily than normal. Nothing else though, and after sleeping I felt totally sober and content again.

It's now the next morning after the trip as I'm writing this, and I have to say that I already feel much better than I did leading up to this experience. I hope and think that the 4-HO-EPT did have something of an antidepressant effect for me as I was wishing it would, but we'll have to see how these next few days unfold. Nevertheless, the trip itself was still quite intriguing and refreshing regardless, it was the kind of trip I love but that I haven't had in over a year since I took 50 mg of 4-HO-MPT last October, and even longer before that since I was using LSD more. Essentially, though there is definitely a lot more to it than this and I expect it take many experiences to reveal more of its true self to me, at this point it felt very much like the same kind of headspace I would always take high doses of LSD for felt like almost nothing else could ever quite compare to, but possibly even more rewarding and without practically any hallucinogenic effects at all, basically just the most mentally-focused psychedelic trip I think I could even imagine. And this has now caused 4-HO-EPT to jump further up my list of favorites than most other substances could really hope to.... Along with LSD and 4-HO-MPT, I think it may now be the only other psychedelic I so far consider to be truly top tier for me for causing this particular kind of experience.

In the end, I absolutely look forward to exploring more with this one. I am sure that there is quite a lot more to see of it and that I have only scratched the surface so far!

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Wow, that sounds like a beautiful experience! It makes me want to put 4-HO-EPT on my short list. I've got to wait a while though, I've been spending too much money on psychedelics, and the next up is ALD-52. But there are so many things I want to jump on while they're available, and all of these tryptamines are some of those.

This really sounds intriguing, I like 4-HO-MPT quite a bit although I need to try a larger dose of it still. I still have MPT to try, I think I'll do that soon.
 
It really was a pretty awesome experience. :) A lot better than I was even thinking it might be actually.

I'm totally with you there though, there are still a good few more psychedelics I really want to grab while I can but my wallet is almost empty by now.... I'm thinking that I may just have to call it quits and be happy to have the beautiful tryptamine collection that I do have for now. There are certainly worse fates to resign to. If you do get the chance though, I definitely would say take the opportunity to try 4-HO-EPT while you can of you really want to, it's proving itself to be increasingly novel and satisfying to me and I would hate for anyone interested to miss out on it!

I still can't wait to hear what you think of the MPT either. :) And I bet you would love a higher dose of 4-HO-MPT! I think my 50 mg dose was honestly the most manic I've ever felt on a tryptamine, I had tons of energy and my self-esteem was pushing into like delusions of grandeur levels. That was actually one of the ways I could relate it directly to LSD too; both that and 4-HO-MPT, and now also 4-HO-EPT, have this way of making me feel like my body and sense of self are completely free and perfect, they can take on any dimensions or reflect any part of me I desire, and this accompanies the same mental and erotic headspace I mentioned in the report. This effect in particular just sets them apart from most other psychedelics I've taken so far in terms of feeling like they can really go deep into myself, though there are a couple others that have hinted at being able to do this for me as well.

I am particularly interested now to see just how deep these structure-activity relationships go, like in relation to seeing whether MPT and EPT will cause the same kinds of trips or do something different, and if a higher dose of ETH-LAD might unfold into a similar experience as I suspect it might. I also am quite curious if 4-HO-DET will become like this for me at a higher dose too, because my experience with it so far suggests that it might, though maybe not before becoming really delirious or strange before then....

It really is an exciting time for psychedelic exploration, I can't wait to see what more secrets the future holds for them. :)
 
It sure is an exciting time, unprecedented in the history of the world. We're right on the cresting wave. :)

For me the -DET tryptamines, at least 4-HO and 4-AcO-DET, have a very serious and emotionally neutral aspect to them. They're quite ego-destroying to me. Not as fun as the others, but very rewarding. I can't imagine it being very LSD-like or manic, but that's just me. I've taken 4-AcO-DET to like 35mg. I tried 4-HO-DET once quite a long time ago, I can't remember enough to draw conclusions though but I recall it being similar in nature.
 
I can actually relate to that pretty well. 4-HO-DET and 4-AcO-DET, which I find pretty much interchangeable, are both very lacking in euphoria for me compared to most tryptamines, possibly all because they do also bring in an unusual or serious vibe as you say that the others often don't, and they're also generally more physically sedating than stimulating for me as tends to be the case with the trypramines with symmetrical tails and that lack methyls. In that way, they're about as far from LSD as you can get. However, just based on my handful of experiences with them and other tryptamines so far, I feel like there may be more to the story than that....

For what it's worth, my first experience with 4-HO-MPT at 25 mg was pretty serious and neutral feeling as well, and even had some of the same "dark" feelings I have gotten from the DETs, along with producing lower level visionary effects and a feeling of bodily disconnection that was closer to them than any other tryptamines. I honestly thought of it as just a more classical feeling 4-HO-DET with about the same potency. Then, after that I went for the 50 mg dose, and it was nothing but beautiful euphoria and erotic visuals all the way through, with only the slightest touches of strangeness.... The next time I took it after that was 20 mg and yet it felt much more like a lower dose of the 50 mg version that time, including the euphoria and bright visuals and all that, though the dissociation still felt very much like a similar amount of 4-HO-DET.

I'm not sure if 4-HO-DET will become like that at a higher dose, as I've only taken it up to 25 mg and 4-AcO-DET up to 30 mg, but it's so similar to 4-HO-MPT for me in those particular ways which I have now started to see in 4-HO-EPT as well that I just feel like I need to push it before making any solid judgements, probably something around 50 mg is what I'll try next. I have a suspicion that it may still go in a different direction though, even if it can access the same kinds of mechanisms as those trips, just because I also do find it to provide access to a lot more mushroom-like or DMT-like visual effects than the other psychedelics in this category give me, and even in the doses I have taken I feel like this is part of what gives it the serious headspace you mention, the different aspects of the trip combine pretty well to become something fairly unique. I feel that there is something similar going on with 4-HO-MPT as well, but with more of a 4-HO-MET-like flavor thrown in instead that keeps it a bit more grounded and LSD-like still.

I've actually wanted to take 4-HO-DET at a high dose like that for a long time now, but I've just been a bit too nervous thinking about how intense it might be if I'm right about those different effects occurring together. >.> I think I may actually go for it the next time I have my better than normal setting though.
 
Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed the report!

I hope and think that the 4-HO-EPT did have something of an antidepressant effect for me as I was wishing it would, but we'll have to see how these next few days unfold.

You'll have to keep us updated on that aspect. One might even argue that the aftereffects of a trip are more important than the trip itself.

I felt great in the week following my single trial with 4-HO-EPT. I think it will have excellent therapeutic potential.
 
No problem, happy to share. :) I'm glad you enjoyed it!

And I'll definitely let you know how it goes! I also recall feeling pretty good in the time shortly after my first two experiences with it. I've been feeling really nice all day today too, I'm generally more positive, more resistant to the negative thoughts I've had floating around lately, and enjoying my cannabis high more. Hopefully it keeps up!

And I can understand that sentiment as well. The trips themselves are still fascinating, blissful, and deep, and they're definitely one of my primary motivations for continuing to use psychedelics in particular, but I also think that the fact that these experiences can have lasting positive effects on me is a big part of what makes their continued regular use just for that more justifiable, and I do continue to grow more interested in their medicinal effects specifically as the years go by. Just before this trip I was even reading more about how the science is starting to really support psychedelics having these sort of robust antidepressant effects in the same vein as dissociatives and other research molecules, talking about AMPA receptor activation and BDNF upregulation and all that good stuff. It's definitely a very fascinating subject, and part of why I've decided to pay more attention to those kinds of effects specifically such as for this trip!
 
So, this is now the fifth day since I had this trip, and I'm still feeling pretty positive overall. I haven't been constantly happy, I've still been thinking about things that made me feel negative before because they're of course still relevant in my life, but I've been doing so by choice, rather than feeling like my mind is just nagging me in that direction, and I've been feeling more resistance the emotional strain of it too. Basically, I feel like the trip has rescued me from that building depression at least for now, I seem to be thinking about things in a healthy way again for the moment. I'll definitely come back with more updates if anything changes, but for now I'm feeling pretty good about this one. :)
 
That sounds beautiful Kaleida, everytime I read one of your reports it makes me want to nab some of every substance you try! But I think this one's heading to the top of the list, right beside 4-ho-dpt. Just received some ALD-52 that I'm looking forward to. 2 years since my last mehh LSD experience. I've been taking it easy for a while.
 
But I've noticed that about psychs and depression too, I'll be aware that I'm "depressed" or down about something, but it's more from an observer standpoint. Like my ego is depressed but my higher self can look down and say it's all ok don't worry. I know hippie shit, or maybe it's just repressing
 
^^ That's exactly how it is for me too. I can separate my ego from my core observer. I've been working on incorporating that into my ordinary consciousness for years.
 
It's so hard. Like i said it's been a number of years since any "real" solid trip and the depression that I used to be able to stave off or ignore I guess has just folded over me slowly but surely. I know psychedelics can help me, but their effect definitely faded for me. I forgot how to even recall a semblance of the comforting "all is ok" headspace and my ego took over. And there was a time in my life I thought that headspace, and those realizations could never fade. They obviously haven't completely gone because I can speak about them, but it's more of an abstract idea, instead of a fully realized way of being
 
Great report! I think I should start looking more into the 4 substituted tryptamines. I remember "dancing" while lying in bed on AMT once, so much fun! Tuna sandwhich while tripping though? Dear god 8o ...well different strokes for different folks I guess.
 
The 4-sub tryptamines are way different than AMT. They're really great drugs, very powerful and psychedelic, immersive, ego dissolving.
 
Oh yeah I know, I didn't mean that I'm interested in them because I expect them to be similiar to AMT. It was just that this part about "dancing through as much of it as I could even when I was lying down in bed" reminded me of a particular trip I had on AMT. I have (very limited) experience with 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-MET and found it interesting that they seemed to represent the opposite ends of the spectrum that I experienced with mushrooms, the former being on the very serious and the latter on the very lighthearted side. But with more experience of the different 4 subs mushrooms probably are just one flavour among many, right?
 
Yeah mushrooms are the prototypical 4-sub-T, about as intense as you can get in that area. They're all similar but each has its own unique spin.
 
I always thought that different substitutions on various tryptamines, phenethylamines, lysergamides, and arylcyclohexylamines are akin to different flavours of sugary breakfast cereal. All different, but each has their own flavour and texture and colours, and everybody has their preferred substitution; but really they are all just the same basic constituents arranged in a unique manner
 
Sounds very nice, thank you for the TR, Kaleida! I have about 200mg of 4-HO-EPT to experiment. Im excited to try it soon (thinking of starting with 40mg oral), as well as freebase MPT with Harmaline!
How was the appearance of that 4-HO-EPT powder you got? Was there any spiritual thoughts with it or would it be possible to invoke those, in your opinion?
And yeah, different psychs for different life occasions, so many choices! =D
 
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Sorry for the slow responses everyone, I've been pretty busy and distracted for the past few weeks. I haven't forgotten about this though, in fact I've still been thinking about this trip near constantly! This is a very thought-provoking substance indeed....

That sounds beautiful Kaleida, everytime I read one of your reports it makes me want to nab some of every substance you try! But I think this one's heading to the top of the list, right beside 4-ho-dpt. Just received some ALD-52 that I'm looking forward to. 2 years since my last mehh LSD experience. I've been taking it easy for a while.

I'm glad you liked it, it was indeed a beautiful experience! :) And I'm happy you like my reports in general too! 4-HO-EPT definitely comes highly recommended from me, as do many of those tryptamines I've written about. ;) 4-HO-DPT is a good one too, though I haven't quite found my satisfying dose on it yet. I haven't managed to get hold of ALD-52 myself yet, but I bet it will be great! It should definitely be an awesome reintroduction after such a long break after a mediocre trip.

But I've noticed that about psychs and depression too, I'll be aware that I'm "depressed" or down about something, but it's more from an observer standpoint. Like my ego is depressed but my higher self can look down and say it's all ok don't worry. I know hippie shit, or maybe it's just repressing

Sounds logical to me. :) This is definitely one of my favorite things about psychedelics, and cannabis. It's so easy to get caught up in sad or stupid thoughts while sober that just fade away after a good smoke or trip. This has gotten me out of more negative thought spirals now than I can possibly quantify....

It's so hard. Like i said it's been a number of years since any "real" solid trip and the depression that I used to be able to stave off or ignore I guess has just folded over me slowly but surely. I know psychedelics can help me, but their effect definitely faded for me. I forgot how to even recall a semblance of the comforting "all is ok" headspace and my ego took over. And there was a time in my life I thought that headspace, and those realizations could never fade. They obviously haven't completely gone because I can speak about them, but it's more of an abstract idea, instead of a fully realized way of being

What were your most recent experiences other than your weak LSD trip? Can you describe how your psychedelic effects started to fade? I've definitely gone through a phase of being shut off from the beauty and intellect of the psychedelic experience as well, thinking that I would never be able to get it back, but now I'm able to get into those headspaces even more easily than I ever was able to before. Set and setting definitely can have a far more massive impact than you can ever hope to comprehend before going all the way around the block with them!

Great report! I think I should start looking more into the 4 substituted tryptamines. I remember "dancing" while lying in bed on AMT once, so much fun! Tuna sandwhich while tripping though? Dear god ...well different strokes for different folks I guess.

Thanks so much, I'm glad you enjoyed it! :) And that would definitely be recommended by me, as 4-substituted tryptamines are my favorite class of psychedelics! More on that in a moment.... But yeah, I really love that dancing in bed thing, haha. I've gotten it on a good few other tryptamines as well, good times! And what's wrong with a tuna sandwich? =D Haha, I'm really not physiologically inhibited by drugs much anymore, never was much honestly. I've done things like take five blotters of LSD and then eaten a whole pizza and fell asleep only a few hours after dosing. I try not to anymore because it's a waste of a trip, not just the sleeping but how eating a lot of food can bring down the intensity as well, but as long as it doesn't have that drawback I'll pretty much do or eat whatever I want while tripping.... It always makes for a pleasant sensory experience. :)

Oh yeah I know, I didn't mean that I'm interested in them because I expect them to be similiar to AMT. It was just that this part about "dancing through as much of it as I could even when I was lying down in bed" reminded me of a particular trip I had on AMT. I have (very limited) experience with 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-MET and found it interesting that they seemed to represent the opposite ends of the spectrum that I experienced with mushrooms, the former being on the very serious and the latter on the very lighthearted side. But with more experience of the different 4 subs mushrooms probably are just one flavour among many, right?

So, about those 4-substituted tryptamines.... Yes, as Xorkoth said they do all have some similarities they make them identifiable as a class, but on the whole they can get quite different from one another. As for what they do have in common though, this is a big part of what makes them my favorite class, as opposed to just a few of them being my favorite substances.... Specifically, I find that compared to all the other tryptamines, lysergamides, and phenethylamines I've tried, the 4-substituted tryptamines in general tend to take me much deeper into myself for the same level of structured hallucination. For example, while DMT and mushrooms produce highly similar hallucinogenic effects for me, DMT already gives me visuals that are strong enough that you can see entire other worlds starting to form behind closed eyes before you even really start to reach anything approaching a head trip or loss of self, whereas by the time I'm getting the same kinds of visuals with mushrooms I'll already be so out of it that I'll barely even be aware that they're happening, being just too engaged in the sheer intensity of the psychological and emotional effects. For me having this kind of quality just makes this class of chemicals perfect, as it allows them to give a full-blown, penetrating psychedelic experience at doses that are still totally grounded in reality, even at the same time as being able to touch upon, and in higher doses totally dive into, the same types of intricate hallucinogenic realms provided by the base tryptamines. And while that does make the base ones seem like more interesting exploratory, out-of-body-type agents, I personally have found that my most meaningful and useful trips have been the ones where I'm able to be in a completely altered state of consciousness and still interact with the largely correct reality around me at the same time, so I really think the 4-subs are just top notch for this reason. If you feel a similar way, then I suspect that you might really come to enjoy them as well!

As for their differences, that gives them a lot of versatility as well. 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-MET are indeed very much like mushrooms in effect, but likely because they are chemically as well. The more you move away from the dimethyl tail the more unique they will get. For instance, even given that they tend to have a mushroom-like effect ratio as I mentioned above, I find that the specific type of psychological effects I get from 4-HO-MPT and 4-HO-EPT are much more like LSD, and after trying them it put 4-HO-MET into perspective as more of a halfway point between them and mushrooms as well. I also find that 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-MiPT, and 4-HO-DET produce certain visual effects that are distinct from 4-HO-MET, mushrooms, and 4-AcO-DMT, and I could say the same thing about 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-AcO-DALT, and 4-HO-DiPT compared to the rest of them. It also seems to me that almost any tryptamine with a methyl in its tail will have significant stimulant effects compared to almost any of them that don't, which tend to be more sedating instead, like how even when I was dancing on 4-HO-EPT I was still doing it in bed, compared to 4-HO-MET which has me running and jumping and twirling around the room. I could go on more but I think you get the point.... They're definitely, despite their similarities, each very unique and interesting substances. I can't recommend them enough. :)

Sounds very nice, thank you for the TR, Kaleida! I have about 200mg of 4-HO-EPT to experiment. Im excited to try it soon (thinking of starting with 40mg oral), as well as freebase MPT with Harmaline!
How was the appearance of that 4-HO-EPT powder you got? Was there any spiritual thoughts with it or would it be possible to invoke those, in your opinion?
And yeah, different psychs for different life occasions, so many choices!

You're very welcome, I'm glad you liked it! :) And good luck with your explorations as well! I would definitely be interested in hearing what you think about 4-HO-EPT too, as well as that MPT + harmaline combo which just sounds very intriguing. You should definitely write some trip reports when you have the chance! ;)

My 4-HO-EPT was and is a slightly rocky/crumbly white powder, generally similar to other quality batches I've had of 4-substituted tryptamines. As for its spiritual nature... I must say that I grow increasingly dissatisfied with this word. "Spiritual" means so many things to so many different people, it feels kind of a vague or confusing to me and it's easy to think you're having a meaningful conversation about it while really not being on the same page as the other person at all. But, I will do my best to answer your question, I'll just explain what this means to me first....

I'll say first that I am not, nor is my immediate family, religious in any way, so I don't have any sort of leanings of that type towards anything such as the soul or an afterlife or a specific deity or deities. When it comes to more drug-related mysticism, like DMT breakthroughs and entities and such, I also believe that these are simply fabrications of a mind running wild, not windows into other realities or anything like that. While I do think that that virtual world within the mind is closer to the spirit than the physical world is, the fact that it is, like a dream, meant to reflect what is outside of you more than what is inside of you makes it feel detached from what the world 'spiritual' tries to capture for me, so I remain content in describing those experiences as simply a form of exploring my mind. So, taking what is left over from there, if I really had to nail down the definition, I would say that what is most spiritual to me is the part of myself that is neither directly physical nor directly meant to reflect the physical world around me, but is instead just a reflection of the current state of my consciousness.

To give an example of what I mean, I will say that I find LSD to be very "spiritual" due to the fact that it is deeply satisfying, like an orgasm. This is significant because, given what I said above, an orgasm would fit my definition of a spiritual experience; it has a direct impact on and is part of your consciousness, but despite generally being a reaction to a physical experience, it is neither a physical part of you nor a reflection of the physical world around you. Rather, it is merely an internal response generated to make one feel satisfied and refreshed, an endogenous reward to calm the spirit if you will. I believe that this is where the true use of the spiritual experience really makes sense, because it highlights the fact that our natural state is to be at a sort of spiritual unrest, which has been crucial to our survival as living organisms up to the current moment, but also tends to clutter up the mind with worries and delusions the longer it is allowed to go unchecked. To completely remove this unrest and simply be at peace allows the spirit to take a breather and get rid of that clutter, which can have resoundingly positive effects on the self in many ways, "spiritual", mental, and even physical, as they are all truly interconnected. So, when LSD produces this orgasmic experience for me, I find it to feel very spiritual overall.

Going by this definition alone, far beyond just being spiritual in this way, I would say that this spirituality has consistently been 4-HO-EPT's defining quality, and this most recent trip was the one that pushed beyond a threshold level of that and into the full-blown experience. Much as how it normally plays out on LSD for me as well, it began with a whirlwind of wild thoughts that felt more hectic than anything, and then just settled down into this blissful, orgasmic, totally cleansing relief. And this was all at a point that, compared to practically any psychedelic, there were almost no hallucinations of any kind, though the few that did appear were still quite impressive. Primarily though, it has just felt to me like a psychedelic to take a get lost in the light.... Deeply satisfying, warm, introspective. So yes, if you are one to have spiritual thoughts on psychedelics, I would personally guess from my experiences so far that you might be more inclined to have them on 4-HO-EPT as well. It really does have a very "lysergic" cognitive feel to me too I must say.... LSD and 4-HO-EPT are definitely not the only psychedelics that feel "spiritual" to me in this orgasmic way, but they are two of the only ones that do it in a particular way that just seems to penetrate me a bit deeper on a cognitive, emotional, and hedonistic level than anything else, with pretty much only 4-HO-MPT strongly comparing so far. This could just be a personal preference thing though, it's aesthetic enough that what is more hedonistic about it for me might be less interesting to someone else.... It definitely does it for me though, and it's why this one is quickly becoming one of my new favorite molecules as well. :)

Anyway, I hope that answers your questions satisfactorily! And yeah, the diversity of psychedelics is pretty fantastic. :D
 
Wow! Thank you for such detailed answers, Kaleida, your descriptions are always clear and revealing! :)

I would say that what is most spiritual to me is the part of myself that is neither directly physical nor directly meant to reflect the physical world around me, but is instead just a reflection of the current state of my consciousness.
- I really like that description of such state, it is indeed a definition that is hard to put your finger on...

So yes, if you are one to have spiritual thoughts on psychedelics, I would personally guess from my experiences so far that you might be more inclined to have them on 4-HO-EPT as well. It really does have a very "lysergic" cognitive feel to me too I must say.... LSD and 4-HO-EPT are definitely not the only psychedelics that feel "spiritual" to me in this orgasmic way, but they are two of the only ones that do it in a particular way that just seems to penetrate me a bit deeper on a cognitive, emotional, and hedonistic level than anything else, with pretty much only 4-HO-MPT strongly comparing so far.
- Thank you for reassuring me! I almost felt there's something in this chemical by reading your first trials posts and studying the molecule! That is precisely the effect most sought by me (and perhaps others) in mind altering substances! ;)

Meaningful trips help me navigate myself through difficult life choices and guide my "energy" or attention focus to what matters the most in my life at the current moment, not to mention the anti-depressant effect and giving ability to "meta-program" (program what thoughts would be appearing most and how) my thought patterns into thinking more efficiently and getting rid of bad habits. Before I have started using psychedelics I was suffering pretty badly from the bordeline personality disorder, OCD and clinical depression, was seeing a shrink on a regular basis and thinking about suicide quite often simply because I couldn't build a positive image of myself and even connect my mind to the body properly, then I've discovered Buddhism, started studying abnormal psychology, mysticism, mind self-training techniques and combining that knowledge with psychoactives - it had changed my life drastically and only for the better!

Ill post my findings about this chem in the Small and Handy thread (I hope it'll grow into Big and Dandy soon!)! %)
 
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