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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Naloxone becomes an over the counter product from today

This is a wonderful idea , it's gonna save so many lives , don't know why they didn't think of it sooner :)
 
Important things to note:
- the naloxone pack distributed by pharmacies doesn't include a needle tip. Pharmacists will have to dispense this separately. Australian drug user organisations and the pharmacy guild are in discussions about how to best make pharmacists aware of this.
- if an individual has a health care card and can't afford the OTC price of naloxone, they can still get a prescription from a doctor to have naloxone dispensed at the health care card subsidised rate of around $7.
 
This is excellent news, so great in fact I had a hard time believing it. Anyone know exactly how much this will cost without a script?
 
It depends on how much the individual pharmacy wants to charge over the amount that they pay for it, but we're expecting it to cost around $35 for two doses from most pharmacies.
 
IV i think.

One piece of HR advice that needs to accompany this is do not use alone if you can help it.
No point having Naloxone on hand if there is nobody (conscious) to administer it. In other words, if you need it yourself, you're not going to be in a state to make use of it.
 
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IV i think.

One piece of HR advice that needs to accompany this is do not use alone if you can help it.
No point having Naloxone on hand if there is nobody (consious) to administer it. In other words, if you need it yourself, you're not going to be in a state to make use of it.

I'd say it still can't hurt to have some around even if you're not getting high with others - if someone finds you passed out after an OD (which seems to happen remarkably often) they can administer the naloxone before calling 000.
 
That's true, i agree.

Does anyone know how stable naloxone is, ie how long a dose will keep for before it expires?
If it stays good for a decent amount of time, i feel it would be a very good investment for all users of strong opiates to have around.

It's nice to hear a positive harm minimisation development in Australia. They are a little few-and-far-between nowadays, it seems.
 
I'm fairly certain it's at least a year or two.

And yeah, this is absolutely a huge step forward in HR for Aus. I mean it should have happened decades ago, but better now than never.
 
Indeed.
Fuck, it would have saved a lot of lives 20 years ago.
Still - exactly - better late than never.
 
This is a great idea.. It would have made a difference over the years..
I think they should start offering to throw in a dose of Naloxone when you go to buy a fitpack..
Or at least start educating IV exposed citizens so they are aware and given the option to acquire such a powerful resource.
 
It it administered intravenously or intra muscular?

IV i think.

When the intravenous route cannot be used, it can be administered by intramuscular or subcutaneous injection. Upon IV administration, effects are usually felt within 2 minutes. The onset of action is obviously slightly less rapid using the IM/SC route. Duration is between 1 and 4 hours, depending on ROA and dosage. IM produces a more prolonged effect than IV.

So happy that this is *finally* going to be available to Australian heroin users, there is no doubt in my mind that it will save countless lives. Stay safe people. :)

A. <3
 
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wow, my friend and i were ddiscussing this the other day....
then, i went ahead and overdosed :( and nothing he could do to help apart from the usual natural response; drenching me in cold water, slappng me shaking me carrying me around the room trying to wake meup. all thee things worked towards bringng me back. but holy shit how heavy is that shit :( i think a naloxone hit would have helped
 
wow, my friend and i were ddiscussing this the other day....
then, i went ahead and overdosed :( and nothing he could do to help apart from the usual natural response; drenching me in cold water, slappng me shaking me carrying me around the room trying to wake meup. all thee things worked towards bringng me back. but holy shit how heavy is that shit :( i think a naloxone hit would have helped

most overdoses aren't overdoses. You've simply gone into different state of consciousness. Opiate users need to be taught that an overdose is when the breathing of the person is very slow and shallow, erratic, or has stopped.

Passing out from heroin is a common occurance, called going on the nod. Simply because your unable to rouse someone from being on the nod doesn't mean they're dying or overdosing.

In fact true clinical signs of opiate overdosing are very rare in regular users. Yes Opiate naive people who take a large dose of heroin can obviously go into overdose and die but the real factors for ovedose are as follows:

  • Recovering user who, after a break, resumes their habit, taking a dose they were comfortable with. This is highly dangerous. There is evidence that the environment plays a factor in how the body metabolises the opiate. Taking drugs outside ones usual environment usually lowers one tolerance thus making it easier to succumb to a large dose.

  • Alcohol and or Benzodiazepines . The vast, vast majority of opiate overdoses are the result of poly drug use that cause powerful interactions. Its really really dangerous to drink and shoot smack. It's one of the reason why heroin is outlawed in a sense. People perceive that heroin is the root cause when in actual fact it's the other drugs that are primary cause of the death.

  • fast metabolisers

    There are people who, after eating codeine and alike can metabolise a very large percentage of the codeine into morphine. See for most people your only metabolising a small percentage of the codeine into morphine (hence why the discussion in CWE to drink grapefruit juice and what not before taking codeine, to increase the amount metabolised). These people need to be careful about their opiate use.

Have a read from The Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs Chapter 12: The heroin "overdose" mystery and other occupational hazards of heroin addiction


tldr: basically heroin for regular users is really hard to overdose. Read the papers. Very informative. Basically it says that one of the cuts, commonly used with heroin (quinine) could be involved or, as I've indicated its polydrug combos and lazy authorities not bothering to actually investigate the cause of death properly.
 
Also, don't forget that the common preparations of buprenorphine available in Australia, such as Subutex (buprenorphine HCl) and Suboxone (buprenorphine HCl/naloxone HCl), can be used to successfully reverse opioid overdose, in cases of emergency where naloxone is unavailable, or there is not enough time to access it.

A. <3
 
^ i've often wondered about this.
Precipitated withdrawal is better than death...
Assuming you'd be looking at PWD from naloxone as well?
 
Both induce PWD, but with naloxone it's only 2 hours or so, whereas I assume for suboxone it would be significantly longer.

The suboxone thing is interesting - in theory it sounds like it should work, but I've never heard an account of it actually being used that way.
 
most overdoses aren't overdoses. You've simply gone into different state of consciousness. Opiate users need to be taught that an overdose is when the breathing of the person is very slow and shallow, erratic, or has stopped.

Passing out from heroin is a common occurance, called going on the nod. Simply because your unable to rouse someone from being on the nod doesn't mean they're dying or overdosing.

In fact true clinical signs of opiate overdosing are very rare in regular users. Yes Opiate naive people who take a large dose of heroin can obviously go into overdose and die but the real factors for ovedose are as follows:

  • Recovering user who, after a break, resumes their habit, taking a dose they were comfortable with. This is highly dangerous. There is evidence that the environment plays a factor in how the body metabolises the opiate. Taking drugs outside ones usual environment usually lowers one tolerance thus making it easier to succumb to a large dose.

  • Alcohol and or Benzodiazepines . The vast, vast majority of opiate overdoses are the result of poly drug use that cause powerful interactions. Its really really dangerous to drink and shoot smack. It's one of the reason why heroin is outlawed in a sense. People perceive that heroin is the root cause when in actual fact it's the other drugs that are primary cause of the death.

  • fast metabolisers

    There are people who, after eating codeine and alike can metabolise a very large percentage of the codeine into morphine. See for most people your only metabolising a small percentage of the codeine into morphine (hence why the discussion in CWE to drink grapefruit juice and what not before taking codeine, to increase the amount metabolised). These people need to be careful about their opiate use.

Have a read from The Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs Chapter 12: The heroin "overdose" mystery and other occupational hazards of heroin addiction


tldr: basically heroin for regular users is really hard to overdose. Read the papers. Very informative. Basically it says that one of the cuts, commonly used with heroin (quinine) could be involved or, as I've indicated its polydrug combos and lazy authorities not bothering to actually investigate the cause of death properly.

yes well i was off the gear for about 4-6 weeks, personal best, and returned to my old ways by shooting up the same amount that i was doing right before i stopped using.
it was way too much. even i knew better than that, but i got greedy and made a mistake.
i dont know if my case was regarded a legit od or not, id like to think that it wasnt.. but yeah it got pretty bad. barely breathing, blue mouth, hardly any pulse... when i came back, i found that i kept nodding right off for another hour or so afterwards....
like i said i hope it was just a heavy nod, but it was close enough a call for me..
anyway. its in the past. ive been doing good since :)
 
Passing out from heroin is a common occurance, called going on the nod. Simply because your unable to rouse someone from being on the nod doesn't mean they're dying or overdosing.

I'd say if you can't rouse someone, they've gone past "on the nod." To me "on the nod" implies a specific state of drifting in and out of consciousness, but being able to rouse oneself to get up and move around if necessary - "nodding" in and out of consciousness. If you can't be roused, then you're not nodding, you're just unconscious - which defies the entire purpose of using opiates, as you miss out on the high.

Of course the main problem is respiratory depression (and the slight risk of choking on vomit etc. while unconscious). It's when respiratory depression becomes severe enough that anoxia kicks in and the person starts gasping, turning blue, etc. that you have a serious problem on your hands.

Generally I'd say if someone absolutely can't be roused, the responsible thing to do would be to seek medical attention. Unless you're a doctor yourself, you're not really qualified to judge whether someone is getting enough air or not, even if you are sober yourself and willing to sit there for hours monitoring them, waiting for them to wake up.
 
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