Frequent use of wide variety of drugs while avoiding addiction or loss of IQ?

[berk85]

Hi everyone,

Its my first post here. Ive always enjoyed pot, booze and the occasional night on shrooms, but had never dabbled outside of that...that is until about 12 months ago when I started being more open to using a wider (much wider) variety of drugs. Its been great lol. Has helped me tremendously with my life long social anxiety and also a breakup of a ten year relationship (I just turned 30).

I see it as self medicating. I really only use the "powerful" drugs socially. If Im staying in for the night Im perfectly happy with some good old weed and the internet.
however, Ive been a lot more social lately and I seem to be using some type of substance about 3-6 days out of a week. I know this is a lot. What Ive been doing is mixing it up so I dont get addicted or build too high of a tolerance to any one substance. eg- amphetamines one night, opiates the next, low dose lsd the next, a benzo the next etc.

On my days off I eat well, take a ton of great supplements and get good sleep. Im active and live a pretty healthy lifestyle. I love to learn and research (mental exercise lol)

Im wondering if this is sustainable...

my gut kindof tells me "not really man" but I wonder if thats in part from years of drug war propaganda and misinformation. Also, researching what people like dr carl hart have to say on the topic also make it seem like as long as I stay "smart" with the use of drugs that I will come out relatively unscathed or warped in any significant way.

Thoughts? Tips? Personal experiences? Thanks guys!

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I am moving this to other drugs.

 

[pbuilder]

Can you give us an outline on which drugs and how much weight of those drugs you use in a night, and over the course of a month.

 

[bingey]

Loss of IQ? You probably got nothing worth saving but try to avoid alcohol and smoking substances go straight to injecting or stay snorting.

 

[JM357]

First, I want to say please don't take any of this as judgmental- I have stuggled with opioid addiction for more than 13 years now and am the last person that would judge anyone for their substance use and/or abuse.

While I do know people that can even use hard drugs like opioids including heroin, cocaine/crack, meth, etc. and are not addicts your use is already probably quite a bit more, it sounds like, than most of them (a common restriction is "I'll only use on the friday night/saturday or less than that like I'll only use every other friday/saturday) you can't self-medicate to treat a frequently occuring situation over the long term (and even if you didn't care if you became addicted (which I feel would be very unwise obviously) drugs just about always lose their effectiveness, and usually faster than we think they will, for dealing with that situation) and not become addicted or at the very least end up withdrawing from that type of situation out of fear for what may happen (and usually it is the addiction that happens). Self-medicating tends to be a bad idea (people do sometimes even run into problems when being medicated by a professional (and I often hear "I've done my research and know more than most of this doctors about this!" which may be true quite often, but they aren't you and are able to see the situation from an outsider's perspective) and become addicted- I don't think I've ever seen self-medication end up being problem free AND effective long term; I know I've done it quite a few times) at least when we are talking about addictive psychoactive substances (yeah, maybe if we were talking about a non-psychoactive substance- I used anabolic steroids for joint pain/back pain years ago and had no problem but they aren't addictive, at least not in the heroin/meth/benzos sense). You are already using substances most days by your self-reporting. I really don't think this will turn out well if you continue down this path (I was very very much like you when it comes to substance abuse at one point- I would switch things up because I didn't want to develop dependence (also remember that physical dependence and addiction are two entirely different things- you can have both together or either one alone; dependence is when you use a substance regularly enough where physical withdrawal symptoms happen when you discontinue use (cancer patients that need opioids every day for pain are definitely dependent on them but most often not addicted), and addiction is the compulsive uncontrolled use of a substance/substances despite negative consequences), I did my research, was into harm reduction, etc. In the end it still got me, and by the time I got to using regularly during the week it was very close to a full blown addiction (it might not be to late though to stop). I would type a lot more on this but am restricted right now as far as time and I'm sure tons of other bluelighters will have plenty to say about it.

As far as IQ (and I'm guessing you mean intelligence opposing to literally a score on an IQ test- which may or may not be a great judge of one's intelligence due to bias towards certain groups on the test, and many other more individual factors) while some drugs may cause brain damage and it is definitely not inconcievable that they may result in a loss of intelligence I think that having a permanent or long term effect on emotional regulation, how you feel, etc. is much more often the concern when it comes to the type of damage most often encountered or discussed with most substances. I have known plenty of long term addicts who are very intelligent people (I've heard claims that on average heroin addicts have an above average level of intelligence and it is tough to say but definitely not inconceivable). I think the concern about addiction is a much greater one than any major drop in intelligence with most substances. Meth may cause brain damage (but that may very likely more effect emotions and other factors than what we generally, in our society, refer to as intelligence), MDMA may cause problems with serotonin in the brain (again maybe more of an effect on emotions), long term dissasociative use may cause Olney's lesions on the brain, opioids I don't believe to really cause long-term damage to the cells and organs of the body in and of themselves but the addiction is hell, etc I think the concern of addiction is a much higher one in general.

 

[JM357]

First, I want to say please don't take any of this as judgmental- I have stuggled with opioid addiction for more than 13 years now and am the last person that would judge anyone for their substance use and/or abuse.

While I do know people that can even use hard drugs like opioids including heroin, cocaine/crack, meth, etc. and are not addicts your use is already probably quite a bit more, it sounds like, than most of them (a common restriction is "I'll only use on the friday night/saturday or less than that like I'll only use every other friday/saturday) you can't self-medicate to treat a frequently occuring situation over the long term (and even if you didn't care if you became addicted (which I feel would be very unwise obviously) drugs just about always lose their effectiveness, and usually faster than we think they will, for dealing with that situation) and not become addicted or at the very least end up withdrawing from that type of situation out of fear for what may happen (and usually it is the addiction that happens). Self-medicating tends to be a bad idea (people do sometimes even run into problems when being medicated by a professional (and I often hear "I've done my research and know more than most of this doctors about this!" which may be true quite often, but they aren't you and are able to see the situation from an outsider's perspective) and become addicted- I don't think I've ever seen self-medication end up being problem free AND effective long term; I know I've done it quite a few times) at least when we are talking about addictive psychoactive substances (yeah, maybe if we were talking about a non-psychoactive substance- I used anabolic steroids for joint pain/back pain years ago and had no problem but they aren't addictive, at least not in the heroin/meth/benzos sense). You are already using substances most days by your self-reporting. I really don't think this will turn out well if you continue down this path (I was very very much like you when it comes to substance abuse at one point- I would switch things up because I didn't want to develop dependence (also remember that physical dependence and addiction are two entirely different things- you can have both together or either one alone; dependence is when you use a substance regularly enough where physical withdrawal symptoms happen when you discontinue use (cancer patients that need opioids every day for pain are definitely dependent on them but most often not addicted), and addiction is the compulsive uncontrolled use of a substance/substances despite negative consequences), I did my research, was into harm reduction, etc. In the end it still got me, and by the time I got to using regularly during the week it was very close to a full blown addiction (it might not be to late though to stop). I would type a lot more on this but am restricted right now as far as time and I'm sure tons of other bluelighters will have plenty to say about it.

As far as IQ (and I'm guessing you mean intelligence opposing to literally a score on an IQ test- which may or may not be a great judge of one's intelligence due to bias towards certain groups on the test, and many other more individual factors) while some drugs may cause brain damage and it is definitely not inconcievable that they may result in a loss of intelligence I think that having a permanent or long term effect on emotional regulation, how you feel, etc. is much more often the concern when it comes to the type of damage most often encountered or discussed with most substances. I have known plenty of long term addicts who are very intelligent people (I've heard claims that on average heroin addicts have an above average level of intelligence and it is tough to say but definitely not inconceivable). I think the concern about addiction is a much greater one than any major drop in intelligence with most substances. Meth may cause brain damage (but that may very likely more effect emotions and other factors than what we generally, in our society, refer to as intelligence), MDMA may cause problems with serotonin in the brain (again maybe more of an effect on emotions), long term dissasociative use may cause Olney's lesions on the brain, opioids I don't believe to really cause long-term damage to the cells and organs of the body in and of themselves but the addiction is hell, etc I think the concern of addiction is a much higher one in general.

 

[berk85]

Loss of IQ? You probably got nothing worth saving but try to avoid alcohol and smoking substances go straight to injecting or stay snorting.

I ran out of characters for the title...ease up.

 

[berk85]

Can you give us an outline on which drugs and how much weight of those drugs you use in a night, and over the course of a month.

Amphetamines (switches between adderall, dex, ritalin) doses are usually between 60mg and 120mg. I for some reason take about 90-120mg of adderall and about 60mg dexadrine. Also Ive done methylone about 6 times in about 40 days or so. .1 to .3 I believe per night

Opiates are either popping percs, 2-5 per night or if I get my hands on an oxy 80 Ill take about 20-40mg crushed and snorted.

lsd about a 1/5 to 1/2 tab. Ive mixed it with a benzo recently and I highly recommend it.

Coke which is maybe once per month Ill do .5 to a G

benzos...just one at a time. Ive done maybe 5 ever

Ill take amphetamines about 10 days out of the month. Opiates about 10 and lsd or coke sporadically.

I feel like I have low serotonin and or dopamine (nature or nurture who knows the cause) and drugs are my way to bring myself up to the level I like to be at as far as, I guess for lack of better term, "brain function".

 

[berk85]

First, I want to say please don't take any of this as judgmental- I have stuggled with opioid addiction for more than 13 years now and am the last person that would judge anyone for their substance use and/or abuse.

While I do know people that can even use hard drugs like opioids including heroin, cocaine/crack, meth, etc. and are not addicts your use is already probably quite a bit more, it sounds like, than most of them (a common restriction is "I'll only use on the friday night/saturday or less than that like I'll only use every other friday/saturday) you can't self-medicate to treat a frequently occuring situation over the long term (and even if you didn't care if you became addicted (which I feel would be very unwise obviously) drugs just about always lose their effectiveness, and usually faster than we think they will, for dealing with that situation) and not become addicted or at the very least end up withdrawing from that type of situation out of fear for what may happen (and usually it is the addiction that happens). Self-medicating tends to be a bad idea (people do sometimes even run into problems when being medicated by a professional (and I often hear "I've done my research and know more than most of this doctors about this!" which may be true quite often, but they aren't you and are able to see the situation from an outsider's perspective) and become addicted- I don't think I've ever seen self-medication end up being problem free AND effective long term; I know I've done it quite a few times) at least when we are talking about addictive psychoactive substances (yeah, maybe if we were talking about a non-psychoactive substance- I used anabolic steroids for joint pain/back pain years ago and had no problem but they aren't addictive, at least not in the heroin/meth/benzos sense). You are already using substances most days by your self-reporting. I really don't think this will turn out well if you continue down this path (I was very very much like you when it comes to substance abuse at one point- I would switch things up because I didn't want to develop dependence (also remember that physical dependence and addiction are two entirely different things- you can have both together or either one alone; dependence is when you use a substance regularly enough where physical withdrawal symptoms happen when you discontinue use (cancer patients that need opioids every day for pain are definitely dependent on them but most often not addicted), and addiction is the compulsive uncontrolled use of a substance/substances despite negative consequences), I did my research, was into harm reduction, etc. In the end it still got me, and by the time I got to using regularly during the week it was very close to a full blown addiction (it might not be to late though to stop). I would type a lot more on this but am restricted right now as far as time and I'm sure tons of other bluelighters will have plenty to say about it.

As far as IQ (and I'm guessing you mean intelligence opposing to literally a score on an IQ test- which may or may not be a great judge of one's intelligence due to bias towards certain groups on the test, and many other more individual factors) while some drugs may cause brain damage and it is definitely not inconcievable that they may result in a loss of intelligence I think that having a permanent or long term effect on emotional regulation, how you feel, etc. is much more often the concern when it comes to the type of damage most often encountered or discussed with most substances. I have known plenty of long term addicts who are very intelligent people (I've heard claims that on average heroin addicts have an above average level of intelligence and it is tough to say but definitely not inconceivable). I think the concern about addiction is a much greater one than any major drop in intelligence with most substances. Meth may cause brain damage (but that may very likely more effect emotions and other factors than what we generally, in our society, refer to as intelligence), MDMA may cause problems with serotonin in the brain (again maybe more of an effect on emotions), long term dissasociative use may cause Olney's lesions on the brain, opioids I don't believe to really cause long-term damage to the cells and organs of the body in and of themselves but the addiction is hell, etc I think the concern of addiction is a much higher one in general.

Thanks man. Ya I mean overall intelligence and functioning as opposed to "IQ", I just ran out of characters for the title.

Its a tough one, because finally you find relief from something as awful as constant social anxiety/low confidence and its like a gift from the gods...even though you know youre playing with fire. Its a damn shame really. Hopefully my childrens children will live in a world where chemists figured out how to create some substance to helps people in my situation without the slew of negatives that come with the drugs that are available to us.

I know Im overdoing it...its just so hard not to when you feel as though in a sense youre given a new lease on life...freedom in a sense...

It is a messy time in my life, like I said, break up of ten years with the woman I thought Id spend my life with...now dating a new girl...running a small business. Im almost hoping its been a way to help weather the storm and once things calm down I wont have the urge to always...get high.

 

[BeachBum4u]

JM357 wrote - "Meth may cause brain damage (but that may very likely more effect emotions and other factors than what we generally, in our society, refer to as intelligence"

I agree that actual IQ may diminish with some drugs, more with some as opposed to others, the real damage is on emotional maturity. I've read and heard it said often, that once (as in his/her age) an addict really starts abusing drugs, their emotional maturity ceases to develop. So, if a 16 year old starts to heavily abuse drugs and is now 25, they actually have the emotional maturity of a 16 year old even though they're 25. I really do believe this theory and have seen it played out on numerous occasions.

 

[HUSKTON]

Thanks man. Ya I mean overall intelligence and functioning as opposed to "IQ", I just ran out of characters for the title.

Its a tough one, because finally you find relief from something as awful as constant social anxiety/low confidence and its like a gift from the gods...even though you know youre playing with fire. Its a damn shame really. Hopefully my childrens children will live in a world where chemists figured out how to create some substance to helps people in my situation without the slew of negatives that come with the drugs that are available to us.

I know Im overdoing it...its just so hard not to when you feel as though in a sense youre given a new lease on life...freedom in a sense...

It is a messy time in my life, like I said, break up of ten years with the woman I thought Id spend my life with...now dating a new girl...running a small business. Im almost hoping its been a way to help weather the storm and once things calm down I wont have the urge to always...get high.

I can relate to this, as many others here I'm sure. Depression, anxiety, etc. are a constant in many people's lives, and when one finds a way to reduce them, it is very much like a new life has been handed to them. Remember they are not a cure, they are a temporary fix. Depression/anxiety don't go away with the popping of a pill. It is more like a loan, with interest. One opts for relief in the moment, but at some point the problems will return, with interest. This has been the story of my life, so I relate, and please don't think I am trying to school you, I am not. I am just suggesting this...take a break. See if you can take a break. It has always been the fastest way for me to determine what level my habit/dependence is at that moment. If you can stop any and all for a period of time [determined by you, three days/ a week, etc] then you will know exactly how dependent you are on the substances. If you shoot for a week and fold in three days, you will feel how strong the calling is to you, and be able to at least decide if you should take action as far as reducing or tapering or seeking assistance. I mean this all only to be of help. I have been rotating substances as you described for almost 20 years. It can work, but one must be honest with themselves, and sometimes take a hard hit and sit sick to remain on course. I think it is possible to avoid outright addiction to a substance, but the habitual factor will always remain. At least for me, my mind and body never came to a point where I no longer desire substances. After weathering the storm, I didn't feel like I no longer desired substances, that does not seem realistic to me. However I am not you, and you would know better how to handle your situation. Just be careful, check yourself on a regular basis, so you won't be taken by surprise if your body calls out for something you thought you would drop as soon as.....whatever situation or emotional state passes. Best of luck to you.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

JM357 wrote - "Meth may cause brain damage (but that may very likely more effect emotions and other factors than what we generally, in our society, refer to as intelligence"

I agree that actual IQ may diminish with some drugs, more with some as opposed to others, the real damage is on emotional maturity. I've read and heard it said often, that once (as in his/her age) an addict really starts abusing drugs, their emotional maturity ceases to develop. So, if a 16 year old starts to heavily abuse drugs and is now 25, they actually have the emotional maturity of a 16 year old even though they're 25. I really do believe this theory and have seen it played out on numerous occasions.

So if the person stops abusing drugs, do they then mature?

 

[LifeIsStrange]

Does not work. Really. If you think about metabolism and how long some of them cracked up chemicals will flow in your body. It is only a matter of time. Finally you get poly toxic addicted or you will stick on oxy or something like that.

Please let it go. Smoke a blunt at the weekend. Get a trip only in 1-2 months. If you like drink on some days a beer. It'll be okay. But just hopping from one to another will end up in a disaster. At that time you think you have everything under control you will silently loosing control. Just a bit and a bit more. You can fill a bottle just with drops.

Will take a month, a year or more - but in the end you will get fucked by yourself.

I am talking to you as an eye witness. Seen it by buddies and saw it by myself. Just let it go.
Your thinking is like that. I am in a candy store. When I take on Monday chocolate, and Tuesday candies and so on - I will go not get fatty. Because I am making my gym on weekend. See what I mean?

Not only the dosage is what things makes it toxic - time and repeating also

 

[BeachBum4u]

So if the person stops abusing drugs, do they then mature?

I've heard it picks back up from where it stopped. At least, that's what "they" say.

 

[Jabberwocky]

the odds are NOT IN YOUR FAVOR, man.

you will MOST LIKELY PICK UP A SERIOUS ADDICTION AND RUIN YOUR LIFE!

w/ that being said, its your choice if you want to play the game or not. but realize only 1 in a 1,000 (maybe more) actually make it through.

 

[namnoc16]

It is not sustainable and you can tell doctor Carl to shove it up his ass. Look man I still smoke some dank and will tilt a glass on occasion but at least in my opinion when you get into coke,heroin, meth there is no half stepping it. The shit swallows you up and the thing is everbody thinks they will see warning signs before they get hooked but that's not how it works. You use casually and then you cross the line of addiction without ever noticing and once you do you lie to yourself for many years until the façade breaks down completely.
Shit man I've stated many times I wish I could use heroin with no problems but it doesn't work that way the drugs end up using you. Stick to the weed! I don't know you except for words on a screen and as callous as it sounds could give a shit if you listen to my warnings but I'm laying the facts out to you. Of course I was an addict but at the same time came across many more in my life then I can count(so I'm not just going off of my experience) and it always starts out the same. People just using to have good time and think nothing bads gonna happen and next thing you know you turn into a fucking criminal,a liar, a thief. 3-6 times a week using hard drugs is kinda pushing the just chipping even if you switch up your shit every night. You are on your fucking way man and it seems to me your gut(isn't it funny how are gut is usually more reliable then our brain) is right and that's why you asked the question you did to begin with and you know you need to stop before it's to late!

If the people on the Titanic knew they were gonna hit an iceberg do you think they would have still gotten on. Fuck I hate when I'm preachy but I know the pain some of this shit can bring and if I can spare anyone from experiencing firsthand knowledge I will! It doesn't just affect you, addicts fuck up everyone in there spheres life!

 

[JM357]

I don't think the statement "most people who use drugs do not become addicts" is entirely untrue- I think the reason for this perception that everyone that uses becomes addicted is a) with a drug like heroin often people are already addicted to other opioids b) the people that are chippers are often very very careful to cover that fact because of the heavy stigma that comes from using heroin, meth, other hard drugs. I think this is very important to state for me because I actually thought it was ok to start using because after knowing several people who used hard drugs but weren't addicted (and never did become addicted a decade and a half later for many of them) I thought "all this stuff about addiction is highly exagerated and BS and that will never happen to me!" On the block I grew up on there were 6 of us who grew up there and hung out all the time. 5 of us including me tried hard drugs including heroin and I was the only one (and this was in our teens and we are now around 30) who became an addict.

But here is the thing: none of them were using them anywhere near 3-6 times a week (more like maybe 1 time every 2-4 weeks if I had to try and estimate it- and if it wasn't convienient and easily available they didn't chase it (they weren't counting the days down on the calander) and using wasn't an important thing for them that they felt like they had to do.

Here is the important fact though- IF, IF it really was as low as say 1 in 6 people who tried them becoming addicted the consequences are terrible and that is actually a pretty high risk. Think about it: would you throw a bullet in a revolver and give it a spin, put it to your head, and pull the trigger? Why not, your chances are only 1 in 6? 5 out of 6 people will be fine! (I'm obviously just saying that to get a point across; and no it isn't the same as instant death but the consequences are pretty damn bad). Like I said I'm not trying to put you down but think about it. And a lot of people here would say your chances (or anyones, but to be completely honest we actually aren't talking a 0 starting point as you are starting to show the warning signs) but wither you believe the people/statistic who say 99% or the people who say 15-20% (I've seen that as a frequent statistic among scientific researchers) does it really matter even? It is a very significant risk of something very bad happening either way.

I know how satisfying it is at first to get the relief you have been looking for all along. But it is very risky and the most likely outcome in this kind of situation at least (like I said the people I knew who tried harder drugs like opioids, amphetamines, cocaine, etc. and didn't become addicted never got near using a few times a week and it wasn't something real important for them) and in the long run those problems end up getting exagerrated if you end up down the road of addiction (at first the drugs help, then they do the opposite and make it worse).

The only drug that I knew people to use a few times a week and have no problems frequently was weed. Even alcohol (which really is a pretty dangerous drug addicition and harm wise unless we are talking 1 or 2 drinks a day and the very ocassional use till intoxication) is pretty risky if you are getting hammered multiple times a week.



B

 

[JM357]

Wanted to add this too: if you have to control your usage and/or are concerned about it there is probably a problem. And I really do know how it is to get that relief, I still seek it sometimes even though I try to stay away from non-prescribed opioids. In some situations things don't always turn out terrible, but very often they do.

 

[bingey]

I've heard it picks back up from where it stopped. At least, that's what "they" say.

I think nothing makes you mature more quickly than starvation and cold and if you get seriously addicted you will encounter these conditions or turn to a life of crime , jail is also a great place to grow the fuck up (or hang yourself)

my 2 (euro)cents


p.s Op I'm sorry bit grouchy since I quit daily use.

 

[cdin]

polydrug abuse is so much worse. keep your use discreet and give a week to process, or you'll end up like me a few years ago. Shooting speedballs while being bored. tremendous waste of drugs. Drugs won't cure emotions, and just make it take longer - spend a few weeks cocooning, then actually deal w the emotional fallout, then go back to mostly sober.