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do you peeps considering take subs/bupe being sober!?

Jabberwocky

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
84,998
people ask question it, and to me I consider it sober, but others will ask when I will try to get off, its not good to be on drugs, blah blah. to be me this is absolutely sober; am I wrong here? I was shooting 1-2G's of heroin a day; now I take 8-16MG of bupe a day; do you people consider this sober or what? I dont feel I get high or feel a thing from the bupe; I just dont feel sick and NOT HIGH.

but now lets say at night I decide to smoke a blunt; do you think I get more high cuz of the sub/bupe? or am I just sober and getting as high as I would w/o any bupe or anything in me? you get what I am saying or what?

people just think I am crazy for calling myself sober while on 8-16/bupe but yet I consider it sober as ill prob ever be.
 
No.

But it's better then being on dope as far as stability goes and you can focus on rebuilding your life if it's fucked up from years of being a junkie.

If you use it and still use heroin now and then, then no, not at all sober what so ever. And defeats the purpose of it.
 
defeats the purpose but rather than spending money daily and using daily its cutting me back a shit load and probably blocking a small percentage of the shot, so not even hitting me like it once did, which is probably making me like it less and less in the long run. I know its not being completely sober but man, compared to what was once happening this once a week, or every 2 week thing is sober as a mother fucker in my eyes.
 
Yes. I feel like quantity/frequency of anything is irrelevant if you're not actually getting high. If you're on maintenance at the correct dose and are not using other substances, you should just feel normal. The same goes for methadone, for which there seems to be a near-institutional policy of overmedicating patients or allowing them to effectively pick their dose through self-reporting. I see people around on both buprenorphine and methadone nodding excessively, with no other drugs in their system. I used to be one of them.

Anyway, if you are actually "sober", unintoxicated then nobody can tell you you're not. Only those who have a negative social-view of maintenance programs ever called into question my sobriety when I was doing well. Truthfully, only you know the answer to the question.
 
I think it's splitting hairs, the goal is to be functioning normally, not high or in withdrawal. That's the end cold of quitting without maintenance. And it's what the purpose of maintenance is.

I think it's clear maintenance therapy has helped a lot of people, that's more important than doing it some arbitrary specific way.

Many have been harmed or even died by black and white thinking where addiction is concerned.
 
personally i have never done subs for recreational purposes. when I do them I view myself as taking medicine, being sober and doing good. however do know a few people who only do subs as their choice drug and enjoy them for recreation, I have never seen value in using subs like that. for the most of us they are life savers who enable us the slightest opportunity to get away from opiates
 
XCenterPieceX said:
personally i have never done subs for recreational purposes. when I do them I view myself as taking medicine, being sober and doing good. however do know a few people who only do subs as their choice drug and enjoy them for recreation
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exactly, man. this is exactly how I see it. I just take it as doing the "right" thing. I also take a medication to prevent seizures; w/o that med I MAY have a seizure here and there; is that take drugs, too!? cuz that med is just to better my life and worry less; same goes for the suboxone. w/ suboxone I am staying away from past experiences and BETTERING MY LIFE, so its sober as a mofo in my eyes, lol
 
im definitely sober when I am on subs. It is not a good feeling for me in any way. I don't enjoy taking them, its only to stave off withdrawal and survive. I have gotten clean on them before relapsing, having them as an alternative to being hooked on methadone is a godsend. ive met a lot of people in the new England region who say doing subs is still doing drugs and it pisses me off because we should support the people who are trying to use subs to get their life back on track.
 
if you can find a Dr. to prescribe subs and Xanax, it became ten times easier for me to quit when using Xanax with subs
 
the xanny part is hard but even my Dr. now is taking new patients if anyone from Boston needs someone. he's a good dude.. well, at least he's been so far.
 
I'm gonna move this over to sober living; I think the conversation will thrive a bit better over there.
 
sure thang cuz I'd like to see what others have to say besides 2-3 answers; jesus, man.. I thought this would be way better.
 
pbuilder said:
No.

But it's better then being on dope as far as stability goes and you can focus on rebuilding your life if it's fucked up from years of being a junkie.

If you use it and still use heroin now and then, then no, not at all sober what so ever. And defeats the purpose of it.
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Agreed.

Bupe/Subs, and methadone are not meant to be taken as life long drugs. They're meant to be used as stepping stones for helping someone get actually clean and sober, and rebuild their life without using opiates or other drugs.
 
There is some research out there that shows some people may never regain the ability to feel pleasure in their life after being addicted to opiates/opioids; basically, a life sentence of experiencing PAWS. If a maintenance dose of subs/methadone allow an addict to live a life where they are not getting high, but able to function in the roles they choose, such as: employee, employer, parent, student, that enhances life, I say they are using maintenance drugs appropriately. I think there are a lot of ignorant and judgmental people who do not understand the disease of addiction, who may also say those on maintenance are not sober. You know what they say in AA etc: "To thine own self be true". If I know I am taking a drug as prescribed, for a diagnosis that is accurate, then I am sober. Any drug that I take to get high from, I call that not being sober.
 
P0kemama said:
There is some research out there that shows some people may never regain the ability to feel pleasure in their life after being addicted to opiates/opioids; basically, a life sentence of experiencing PAWS. If a maintenance dose of subs/methadone allow an addict to live a life where they are not getting high, but able to function in the roles they choose, such as: employee, employer, parent, student, that enhances life, I say they are using maintenance drugs appropriately. I think there are a lot of ignorant and judgmental people who do not understand the disease of addiction, who may also say those on maintenance are not sober. You know what they say in AA etc: "To thine own self be true". If I know I am taking a drug as prescribed, for a diagnosis that is accurate, then I am sober. Any drug that I take to get high from, I call that not being sober.
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You really really shouldn't go around saying shit like you just said in that first sentence. Especially when you cite ZERO sources after starting the sentence with the 'some research out there shows' cliche. You realize how hopeless that makes people feel who are going through PAWS? It was shit like that which led to my relapse two years ago. It gives rise to the 'fuck it, I'm never going to get better, what's the point' mentality. Please try to put yourself in someone else's shoes first.

To answer the title's question: no, I don't.
 
From my personal experience. Suboxone was the WORST of anything I ever withdrew from.. pills and heroin... bro listen. If you can bite the bullet and cold,turkey it. (Over 10Days clean for me via cold,Turkey) and remember how shitty you felt. How sick you were. Me that,shit burn into your memory. And when day 5 comes... you'll notice a dramatic difference in how u feel... I,detoxed from,Suboxone a few years back and it was the worst Fucking experience ever.. TWO weeks of PHYSICAL pain.. I just remember it kept going and going...
 
P0kemama said:
There is some research out there that shows some people may never regain the ability to feel pleasure in their life after being addicted to opiates/opioids; basically, a life sentence of experiencing PAWS. If a maintenance dose of subs/methadone allow an addict to live a life where they are not getting high, but able to function in the roles they choose, such as: employee, employer, parent, student, that enhances life, I say they are using maintenance drugs appropriately. I think there are a lot of ignorant and judgmental people who do not understand the disease of addiction, who may also say those on maintenance are not sober. You know what they say in AA etc: "To thine own self be true". If I know I am taking a drug as prescribed, for a diagnosis that is accurate, then I am sober. Any drug that I take to get high from, I call that not being sober.
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could not agree more; I have friends who take Vivitrol but that is absolute sobriety, which it is, but you are still using something to STOP YOU, right? in my eyes the bupe just stops me; I am not feeling a fucking thing in my eyes, esp. if I am only taking 8MG or sometimes 16/MG if the feeling is there.
 
Justasimpleguy said:
From my personal experience. Suboxone was the WORST of anything I ever withdrew from.. pills and heroin... bro listen. If you can bite the bullet and cold,turkey it. (Over 10Days clean for me via cold,Turkey) and remember how shitty you felt. How sick you were. Me that,shit burn into your memory. And when day 5 comes... you'll notice a dramatic difference in how u feel... I,detoxed from,Suboxone a few years back and it was the worst Fucking experience ever.. TWO weeks of PHYSICAL pain.. I just remember it kept going and going...
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would never; has nothing to do w/ just getting clean, suboxone keeps me OFF IT ALL. I do not have an urge, I do not get high, I do not feel a god damn thing besides living my life. I am scripted them through insurance so I only pay $100/mo for 60/pills and Dr. appointment, so I am not too worried. I was spending $100/day at one point, so I will do this for as long as I possibly can and have it help me and save my damn life.

I've been on bupe before for a year, and been taking for many years, so this is NOT NEW; when I was on for a year I was strictly sober for 9 months w/o a damn drink/drug, but I screwed up toward the end when I dropped it far too fast.
 
If you abruptly stop and it makes you sick then I wouldn't consider it being sober. My 2 years on suboxone and 5 years on methadone I don't count to my sober time. I am sorry but it is the truth.
 
Yeah agreed. Some people may use opioid maintenance long-term (or life long)....but that doesnt mean they are sober or clean.
Just my 2c as a reformed opiate dependent individual.
 
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