Benzos Strongest muscle relaxant: Clonazepam vs Diazepam

[escape1]

Old thread, but I just wanted to add my two cents as I've been getting large quantities of Soma given to me for FREE lately (first I've had of them in years, and since Soma is an unscheduled drug in my state, is given out as samples by drug reps) and doing a bit of research on the drug. I found some interesting info about it online that I wanted to quickly share. It has become less popular with prescribers because of its lethality when mixed with other drugs (which most of us knew) but it seems that, like benzos, it has some affinity for gaba receptors in the brain (for which we have specific ones that control both our psychological and physiological response to stress/anxiety, including muscle tension). Therefore, it would make perfect sense (and here I'm responding to those posting that benzos are NOT muscle relaxants) that benzos would have some muscle relaxant properties, ranging from mild to aggressive, based on the drug. Soma's interaction at gaba receptor sites also makes it a little different than the "central skeletal muscle relaxants" such as flexiril and robaxin, and Soma was developed initially for use as a general sedative, with a barbiturate like chemical profile. Quite interesting, I thought.
Anyway, I don't find either type of drug particularly recreational on their own, but great for sleep. I have a passionate distaste for alprazolam in particular unless it's bed time. It's harsh and fast-acting, so great for real panic attacks, but it's short half life almost guarantees rebound effects similar to alcohol (also a fast acting, short lived gaba-nergic drug) in many individuals. IF I were looking for a benzo, be it for medicinal OR recreational use, I'd personally prefer Klonopin, followed by Valium. But frankly, I find more fun and function in these Somas, if left with no other options, and that isn't saying much 'cause they kinda suck, too.

 

[Paulymorphone]

escape1

Yes, what only some pharmacists used to refer to the trycyclic reaction of opioid + benzo + soma (The Holy Trinity) is now known amongst doctors patients police dea and politicians. I was going to post about it but I deleted it and never posted it because even those with the most fortified tolerance can die combining these three. The first time I did it, I woke up to a bottle of 240 30mg oxycodone missing. The bottle wasn't missing, the pills were, I took em all, luckily being in hospice for 2 years on ridiculous amounts of opiates including cancer meds like lazanda, subsys, fentora, abstral, actiq, etc, it didnt hurt me. You use these 3 on yourself in a high enough dose you'll basically roofie yourself, if you're not knocked out you wont remember what you're doing.

Also valium (diazepam) has been rated as one of the best muscle relaxants available by medical professionals, it's just if u have a very high benzo tolerance, this is no longer true.

I've taken them all, skelaxin, robaxin, flexeril, the one that starts with Z, and the rest, soma is by far the most effective. And if someone takes 1 benzo with 1 soma with their rx dose of pain meds they should be alright, maybe a tad sleepy, but if your gonna take 4 xanax 4 klonopin 4 soma 4 dilaudid, 3 things can happen:

1) you die
2) you pass out
3) you do something stupid with no memory of it (possibly take more pills) and you wake up in the morning, or never wake up again.

So use extreme caution with the combination known as the holy trinity, and think of all the pain your loved ones will feel if you never wake up.

Sorry to be morbid, it's just one of the most powerful potentiators out there, and the more people who die because of these things the more the small percentage of people with very high tolerances who cannot get their meds in the appropriate doses since 2016 unless they're dying suffer. I'm on 2% of what I was on in hospice, so everyday my dopamine and serotonin levels are heavily depleted. It's exactly like living in a neverending MDMA hangover, several times every minute you wish you were dead, and you cant live you're life at all. You're alone in a room, watching fake people live fake lives to distract yourself from the immense suffering inside you. I dont know how much longer I can last. It took me 20 hospital admissions and 18 months to find a doctor who could write me mscontin 200mg BID, dilaudid 8mg QID, Soma 350mg TID, Xanax 2mg BID, Klonopin 2mg TID, & Fioricet 40/50/300 x2 TID, and this is nowhere near enough to feel normal mentally, to dull the pain effectively....we've discussed a spinal infusion pump but I worry about its effectiveness as well. And if I'll be worse with it than I am now, but if laws get worse, it may be the better option. God I wish I could find a doctor able to help...mine was supposed to put me on methadone instead of the mscontin he flaked on that too, he also discharged me with no reason and took me back after 50 calls from home health doctors, my family, nurses, a psychologist, a social worker....its like he thinks I'm trying to get high, when all I'm trying to do is have the neurochemical capacity to have the motivation to go back to college and do something with my life I stead of laying in bed all day wishing a giant anvil would fall on me. ...anyone with any resources, helpful advice, questions, miracles lol, please respond, I'm not gonna last much longer

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

Carisoporadol being a prodrug to the lovely Meprobamate certainly explains the synergism with the rest of the trinity. My insurance company stopped covering it and call it "The Las Vegas Cocktail" and others sometimes refer to it as a "Houston Cocktail" after the late Whitney, but Benzos and opioids are bad enough with out Soma stacked on. Thing is though I get worse cramps after using Soma for a week then before. It tough to call this rebound as it happens while I'm still inside the half life/ duration of action.

Aside from Some I'd have to vote as Diazepam having more intrinsic relaxant activity vs Klonopin.

---

PolyMorphone, I'm not going to move your post but I do suggest you start a new Thread as your kind of tucked away down here on the tail of this old one. I feel for you trying to find compassionate care during this knee jerk opioid crisis BS.

 

[Paulymorphone]

Thanks for the compassionate response Jekyll, I sent you a friend request

 

[Paulymorphone]

Also, it's a gamble as to the reaction I get when I tell people my story, most dont understand, the majority after that just call me an addict, and the small percentage who vaguely understand tell me to go change this, as if even if I were a respected member of Congress or the Director of the DEA I would have any more pull than I do now as a 35 yr old in an old folks home

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

^ Yeah I can't imagine your interactions with health professionals these days. I used to have to visit 17 pharmacies just to find one that would fill 30mg oxyIR X 100. They either didn't have it in stock without even checking or would just straight up look at the head pharmacist and he would shake his head, again without even checking stock. Now anything affiliated with Sam Walton ( wallmart, sams club) will only fill 7 days worth of Cll opioids and that's if it's below the MME-Morphine Milligram Equivalent amounts set by the FDA-basically pathetically low. Because they know way more than your doctor does about what you need. 8)

OT: Instead of using a benzo, Baclofen seems to have a slightly different mechanism with GABA-B activity. Not all that abusable either so maybe? wallgreens might even dispense it if you limp to the counter.

 

[ShroomySatori]

Definitely the val

 

[Paulymorphone]

I have no problem filling my meds, but it's at a small pharmacy that deals with lots of hospice patients....

And yeah any mainstream pharmacy like Walgreens or CVS would tell me to take a hike...

Even if they didnt I'd have to sit and wait 2 hours for them to fill my meds, screw that

 

[Patrickforsterter]

Diazepam is the go-to benzodiazepine for painful muscle spasms, though it is typically only prescribed short-term....if you have painful muscle spasms often then I would opt for something less addictive like orphenadrine (Norflex) or carisoprodol (Soma) or meprobamate (Milltown).....Norflex is the least addictive (virtually non addictive).

I don't think you will be satisfied with clonazepam, it is most commonly indicated for anxiety disorders...not so much musculoskeltal disorders.

I would agree with your friend, clonazepam is a much more mental buzz...and its more unpredictable iMO, sometimes 1 mg gets me drunkish feeling while other times 2 mg won't do anything at all.
On the other hand...Diazepam is highly predictable for me, the threshold dose starting at about 5 mg...and the max I have taken at once is 20 mg (usually unable to stay awake after that).
Although Diazepam is a great muscle relaxer and well-rounded benzo...it's also go a lot of downsides IMO. Too me Valium is one of the dirtiest benzos out there....meaning it will leave the worst hangovers and also has the greatest likelihood to cause injuries.

I remmeber once taking 20 mg and passing out...the next morning I woke up confused and jumped out of bed, but my legs had fallen asleep (my muscles were so relaxed even the next morning) that when I jumped up I twisted my ankles and was in agonizing pain. I will never forget how well Valium can relax the muscles!

Haha that's classic picturing that in my head lol.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

Diazepam is loaded with active metabolites that become more effective as one's system becomes saturated, hence why it's used for tapering like in the ashton manual and in hospitals more so than Clonazepam. It's easier to divide up doses as well seeing as there's multiple mg's per dose. I'll have to look up the difference in receptor subunit binding between Diazepam and Clonazepam to get to the bottom of the muscle relaxant effects.

 

[Rafayte]

Diazepam is better as muscle relaxant and clonazepam is better as anticonvulsivant

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

IV Diazepam has the quickest onset and is effective for convulsive Status Epilepticus, while Clonazepam will work for controlling non-convulsive SE. Both lose efficacy though and aren't suitable long term.

Intravenous diazepam or lorazepam are first-line treatments for status epilepticus. However, intravenous lorazepam has advantages over intravenous diazepam, including a higher rate of terminating seizures and a more prolonged anticonvulsant effect. Long-term use of diazepam for the management of epilepsy is not recommended; however, a subgroup of individuals with treatment-resistant epilepsy benefit from long-term benzodiazepines, and for such individuals, clorazepate has been recommended due to its slower onset of tolerance to the anticonvulsant effects

Clonazepam is not suitable for the long-term treatment of seizures due to the development of tolerance to the anticonvulsant effects
Clonazepam has been found to be effective in the acute control of non-convulsive status epilepticus; however, the benefits tended to be transient in many of the people, and the addition of phenytoin for lasting control was required in these patients.

 

[Rafayte]

IV Diazepam has the quickest onset and is effective for convulsive Status Epilepticus, while Clonazepam will work for controlling non-convulsive SE. Both lose efficacy though and aren't suitable long term.

Yes, both are accentuated muscle relaxant and anticonvulsivant but diazepam is better as muscle relaxant and clonazepam is more effective as seizures relieve. But I am agree both diazepam and clonazepam are anticonvulsivant having diazepam a faster onset and as muscle relaxant is diazepam the most used. Too diazepam tabs can be taken sublingual while clonazepam tabs may be taken orally even taking both orally diazepam acts faster

 

[cdin]

baclofen is best for true muscle relaxation issues.

 

[Lorne???]

You kidding me Jekly? Clonazepam saves marriages - Fact

Lorazepam
is arguably superior as an anticonvulsant overall, though as pointed out, there are different types of epilepsy, and blah blah

As a muscle relaxant, though, I’f I ‘d be shocked, if a nitro benzo with a binding affinity around ~40x higher, than dzp, and longer lasting,(same T1/2, though more:less irrelevant) was “inferior” as a muscle relaxant.

Note that this doesn’t speak to acute vs chronic dosing, as both of the medications in question behave differently with chronic administration, vs a single dose. There is also subunit affinity, though info on that is limited

 

[cdin]

listen : i suffer from long term intractable spasm issues that are severe. Benzos are nothing in the muscle relaxation world - they are too addictive with too little actual benefit to be worth it in most cases. Baclofen works on a cellular level in the muscles to relieve tension as opposed to just generally relaxing your CNS. MUCH MORE EFFICIENT FOR MUSCLE PROBLEMS. my .02

 

[THCified]

So Baclofen is better than Clonazepam for relaxing muscles,...really? Tetrazepam was best but isn't available anymore over here in fuckin' Germany, Nazi-Hell-Hole!

I've found Baclofen shite as relaxant, honestly - I dislike these meds mostly but sometimes, on rare occasions, they can be handy, ofc... Hmmm, makes me think I don't need to ask my Doc then if I'm in need for a med like that, if that ever would have happened - but since Baclofen was a letdown, nothing too helpful, there's not even the need to waste any more thoughts on the Clonazepam then!

Thanks!

 

[Hodor]

Tetrazepam was best but isn't available anymore over here in fuckin' Germany, Nazi-Hell-Hole!

While the nazis certainly valued their pristine white skin, I'm sure there are perfectly apolitical reasons for not wanting people to die from toxic epidermal necrolysis.
(also, it was technically the French who first banned it and then urged the rest of the EU to do the same).

Interestingly enough, the other anticonvulsant/muscle relaxant-focused benzo, clobazam (not to be confused with clonazepam!) is still available though, despite also having been reported to cause averse skin conditions... maybe the risk isn't as great because it isn't dosed in the hundreds of miligrams like tetrazepam is, or maybe it's going to end up getting removed from the market too.

 

[Rafayte]

I was taking alprazolam 2mg tablets three times daily, so 6mg daily but I ask to change to chlorazepate and I was prescribed 50mg chlorazepate tablets three times a day, so 150mg chlorazepate daily keeping one 2mg alprazolam tablet a day but about one month ago I changed to Ansium which are capsules with 5mg diazepam and 50mg sulpiride. I am taking four Ansium caps daily, one in the morning, one in the afternoon and two in the night, so 20mg diazepam daily and I am more awake without anxiety and sleeping well. Too in the past I was prescribed clonazepam 2mg tablets twice a day. I think clonazepam is a good anxiolytic but diazepam works better for anxiety and sleep while clonazepam didn't worked for me to sleep

 

[aspiringchemist]

^ Yeah I can't imagine your interactions with health professionals these days. I used to have to visit 17 pharmacies just to find one that would fill 30mg oxyIR X 100. They either didn't have it in stock without even checking or would just straight up look at the head pharmacist and he would shake his head, again without even checking stock. Now anything affiliated with Sam Walton ( wallmart, sams club) will only fill 7 days worth of Cll opioids and that's if it's below the MME-Morphine Milligram Equivalent amounts set by the FDA-basically pathetically low. Because they know way more than your doctor does about what you need. 8)

OT: Instead of using a benzo, Baclofen seems to have a slightly different mechanism with GABA-B activity. Not all that abusable either so maybe? wallgreens might even dispense it if you limp to the counter.

The pharmacy refuses to fill a legitimate prescription of more than 7 days? On what grounds?