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    Really BAd Kratom UEI addiction HELP 
    #1
    My husband started taking Kratom October of 2013. He tried all of the strains and felt nothing. Now my husband does not have any prior abuse with illicit drugs, alcohol, or prescriptions except a brief accidental addition to oxy about 5 years ago. I suppose he began taking Kratom because he wanted to feel relaxed? Finally only the UEI gave him the feeling he was looking for. He asked me to try it. I took one and felt horribly sick and weird. I have never drank alcohol or done any drugs. He had asked me to try it because he wanted to see how it affected me. I was so mad at him for giving that pill to me as it really made me feel super ill, sick, and strange. I did not like the feeling. I felt like I was going to die. He felt nothing like that...he said he felt good. He took one pill daily for about 8 months. No addition really.

    However, he began to increase his intake of the UEI. He began taking two pills daily because we were on vacation and he was stressed. I had been warning him from the beginning that this stuff is going to be addicting. He argued with me and told me not to judge him and swore it was safe, non-habit forming, and no withdrawals. So after fighting non stop I finally said, fine its your body. Do what you want. Since he gets EXTREMELY defensive about his Kratom, I just let it go. He is a big boy after all.

    Now I dont know how it happened but he is now up to taking 4 pills 5 times a day!!!! This is UEI. We are talking 10grams daily. We are talking about 525.00 and this shit only lasting him 8 days. We are talking panic attacks when he misses a dose. We are talking sheer terror when shipping gets delayed on his Kratom. We are talking about his life. He now sees he is addicted, well , at least he is finally opening up to me and talking about it and asking for help. He caught a cold and had to mix kratom use with Mucinex DM, Dayquil etc. My husband had his first panic attack and I almost had to take him to the ER. Its the only time I've seen that man cry. He is going to try lowering his doses after our Disney trip next week. He wants to be off this stuff altogether.

    I'm not here to judge anyone or to belittle the love of my life. I love him so much and I am really afraid for him. This stuff is getting expensive and its affecting our sex life. On top of it all I have been trying to gently warn him to be careful and his defensive attitude toward GENTLE, NON-JUDGEMENTAL suggestions have left me sitting here saying, I freaking told you so. Am I mad? Yes. I am mad that he let this happen to us. See this stuff affects more than the user. It affects children and spouses. Its not cool that my kids are going to be asking whats wrong with dad when he attempts to come off this stuff. He is scaring the shit out of me and I am truly horrified at what withdrawal looks like for him. I know many of you may throw up a guard when I talk bad of kratom. If you are going to defend kratom to me, I dont want to hear it. You havent seen what I have seen and nothing you can say will make me think this stuff is anything but the devil in pill form.

    I'm sure many of you can relate to his situation. My question is this. How can I be the best help to him as he faces this beast of a withdrawal process that is coming up? When should I seek help for him if he turns suicidal? What type of dose lowering should he try? I am all he has in this world besides our kids. He has no friends, no loving family, so I am it. I dont want to screw up and hurt him. But lets be clear, I'm mad that this is happening to the man I love. He has brought us to a place I never thought would happen to us. I am pissed that he basically tricked me becuase he wanted to feel good ALL the TIME. HELP! Help me help him. What do you wish your loved one would have done or not done to help you?
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    #2
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    Sad, isn't it?

    We all start out small, thinking we are in control, that if we just do one more pill a day, we will not become addicted. However, we do, and then comes the daily routine of hunting that fix and not being able to cope without it.

    I have zero experience with kratom.
    It's known to cause anxiety and aggitation, right?
    I do have experience with a 20 year battle of addiction, and it's rough.

    You husband is an addict now, sad to say. He will never experience that feeling he got from the first few doses of his drug, and is increasing to seek that pleasure again.

    He needs to realize kratom just isn't working for him any longer and it's time to either get clean for himself or you two come to an agreement of some other medication that will help with anxiety.
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    #3
    $525 for 8 days worth??yikes, that has to be hurting the finances..meaning u will eventually run out of money soon if he keeps it up??

    if he truly wants to quit just keep reducing the dosages and maybe give him some benzos to help soothe the anxiety for a few days as i dont think kratom wds last that long..nothing like the harder opiates..
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    Bluelighter f33lg00d's Avatar
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    Goto a suboxone clinic
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    Quote Originally Posted by avyona View Post
    My husband started taking Kratom October of 2013. He tried all of the strains and felt nothing. Now my husband does not have any prior abuse with illicit drugs, alcohol, or prescriptions except a brief accidental addition to oxy about 5 years ago. I suppose he began taking Kratom because he wanted to feel relaxed? Finally only the UEI gave him the feeling he was looking for. He asked me to try it. I took one and felt horribly sick and weird. I have never drank alcohol or done any drugs. He had asked me to try it because he wanted to see how it affected me. I was so mad at him for giving that pill to me as it really made me feel super ill, sick, and strange. I did not like the feeling. I felt like I was going to die. He felt nothing like that...he said he felt good. He took one pill daily for about 8 months. No addition really.

    However, he began to increase his intake of the UEI. He began taking two pills daily because we were on vacation and he was stressed. I had been warning him from the beginning that this stuff is going to be addicting. He argued with me and told me not to judge him and swore it was safe, non-habit forming, and no withdrawals. So after fighting non stop I finally said, fine its your body. Do what you want. Since he gets EXTREMELY defensive about his Kratom, I just let it go. He is a big boy after all.

    Now I dont know how it happened but he is now up to taking 4 pills 5 times a day!!!! This is UEI. We are talking 10grams daily. We are talking about 525.00 and this shit only lasting him 8 days. We are talking panic attacks when he misses a dose. We are talking sheer terror when shipping gets delayed on his Kratom. We are talking about his life. He now sees he is addicted, well , at least he is finally opening up to me and talking about it and asking for help. He caught a cold and had to mix kratom use with Mucinex DM, Dayquil etc. My husband had his first panic attack and I almost had to take him to the ER. Its the only time I've seen that man cry. He is going to try lowering his doses after our Disney trip next week. He wants to be off this stuff altogether.

    I'm not here to judge anyone or to belittle the love of my life. I love him so much and I am really afraid for him. This stuff is getting expensive and its affecting our sex life. On top of it all I have been trying to gently warn him to be careful and his defensive attitude toward GENTLE, NON-JUDGEMENTAL suggestions have left me sitting here saying, I freaking told you so. Am I mad? Yes. I am mad that he let this happen to us. See this stuff affects more than the user. It affects children and spouses. Its not cool that my kids are going to be asking whats wrong with dad when he attempts to come off this stuff. He is scaring the shit out of me and I am truly horrified at what withdrawal looks like for him. I know many of you may throw up a guard when I talk bad of kratom. If you are going to defend kratom to me, I dont want to hear it. You havent seen what I have seen and nothing you can say will make me think this stuff is anything but the devil in pill form.

    I'm sure many of you can relate to his situation. My question is this. How can I be the best help to him as he faces this beast of a withdrawal process that is coming up? When should I seek help for him if he turns suicidal? What type of dose lowering should he try? I am all he has in this world besides our kids. He has no friends, no loving family, so I am it. I dont want to screw up and hurt him. But lets be clear, I'm mad that this is happening to the man I love. He has brought us to a place I never thought would happen to us. I am pissed that he basically tricked me becuase he wanted to feel good ALL the TIME. HELP! Help me help him. What do you wish your loved one would have done or not done to help you?
    :

    My mom was severely addicted to a full spectrum 20:1 ethanol kratom tincture. So basically heroin. I witnessed her go cold Turkey and almost die from dehydration due to projection out both sides. I never understood why everyone just ignores the fact that kratom is just as addicting as any moderate to strong opiate/oid. Definitely a strong substance with a high potential for abuse and not something that you compare to say marijuana in potential for addiction. Funny thing is I'm not swiming my mom actually went through that.
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    Bluelighter dirzted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swimmingencouraged View Post
    :

    My mom was severely addicted to a full spectrum 20:1 ethanol kratom tincture. So basically heroin. I witnessed her go cold Turkey and almost die from dehydration due to projection out both sides. I never understood why everyone just ignores the fact that kratom is just as addicting as any moderate to strong opiate/oid. Definitely a strong substance with a high potential for abuse and not something that you compare to say marijuana in potential for addiction. Funny thing is I'm not swiming my mom actually went through that.
    Ehhh, it's actually quite comparable to marijuana given it's light agonist action but I'll leave that debate for another time.

    I would advise to stay way from any opioid replacement therapy, kratom is already a weaker opioid so I'm not sure it would be better than just trying a straight taper, which is what kratom is usually used for anyway.
    Try a taper! You are obviously a powerful force in his life and if you could monitor his doses and slowly reduce them week after week that would be a very effective way to minimize withdrawals.
    If he still isn't in control then maybeee try a sub clinic and be extremely low in your doses (2mg MOST) but i really am not sure that would be a good idea.
    Good luck!
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by swimmingencouraged View Post
    :

    My mom was severely addicted to a full spectrum 20:1 ethanol kratom tincture. So basically heroin. I witnessed her go cold Turkey and almost die from dehydration due to projection out both sides. I never understood why everyone just ignores the fact that kratom is just as addicting as any moderate to strong opiate/oid. Definitely a strong substance with a high potential for abuse and not something that you compare to say marijuana in potential for addiction. Funny thing is I'm not swiming my mom actually went through that.
    FST and UEI are not really kratom in the strict sense. In using those substances you might as well just get heroin. People say kratom is benign as they are speaking of crushed up plain leaf. Is a hash oil dab stronger than a bowl of brick weed? Yes and following the same logic so is something as concentrated as these substances. Not the same thing at all. If you knew that fst was just like heroin why would you let that happen to your own mother?
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    #8
    Bluelighter f33lg00d's Avatar
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    You cant stop people from getting addicted "Whyd you let that happen to your own mother?" Thats so naive....

    Money wise at least heroin is a better choice than uei/fst. Uei/fst isnt basicly heroin though, you cant even shoot it up and its much weaker. Through your logic dentists give children de facto "heroin" when they get their wisdom teeth out.




    Hey so orginal poster. Sounds like your husband cant afford to spend hundreds everyweek in kratom anymore. Thats why i contrary to others suggest, suboxone. It would cost million times less, and is less euphoric. Now im not saying longer term maintence (unless all else fails, Im on subs long term myself), but have him goto a 7 day detox where they have him do a rapid suboxone taper and bombard him with therapy 24/7. In the end its up to him he has to want to change
    Last edited by f33lg00d; 06-02-2015 at 20:41.
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by f33lg00d View Post
    You cant stop people from getting addicted "Whyd you let that happen to your own mother?" Thats so naive....

    Money wise at least heroin is a better choice than uei/fst. Uei/fst isnt basicly heroin though, you cant even shoot it up and its much weaker. Through your logic dentists give children de facto "heroin" when they get their wisdom teeth out.
    Maybe he's not aware we don't all live with mommy anymore and can't keep track of someone's drug habits from a couple states away (not that it's my job anyway) . You can shoot up FST after you evaporate the ethanol it mixes right in with water, you can also smoke a brick of weed or an ounce of hash over a month's period and not come out with severe withdrawals. Kratom is to heroin as codeine is, pretty fucking close and with a little bit of refining your there (as far as effects go that is not to say you can produce heroin from kratom) . Keep in mind a 150 grams of potent leaf material is used to produce roughly 1ML of final product. In this regard I think it's pretty comparable to the bth we get in the Midwest.
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    #10
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    Do not use suboxone like a poster above me has said thats like killing a fly with a chainsaw..do a 2 week taper.cut dose in half at start of it
    Last edited by P.o.T.u.S; 07-02-2015 at 01:55.
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    Bluelighter f33lg00d's Avatar
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    Yeah i agree with its like codeine to heroin. Ive never heard of someone shooting it, do you actually know people that have tried? $90 of fst would barely hold me for an hr when i was dependent on h.

    Quote Originally Posted by P.o.T.u.S View Post
    Do not use suboxone like a poster above me has said thats like killing a fly with a chainsaw..do a 2 week taper.cut dose in half at start of it
    Its really not hes spending $500 a week on kratom. Suboxone is completely reasonable, and will help keep the family housed and feed.
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    #12
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    It all comes down to if he wants to quit really.if hes not ready to quit he will more than likely continue to abuse any opiod that he is given.sub withdrawal is hell.in the name of harm reduction a taper is the best road i believe.why introduce a stronger opiate untill last resort.he needs to really want to quit or nothing is gonna help him
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    #13
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    Suboxone is such a worse and more powerful drug than kratom.
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    UEI and FST is not kratom, contains no kratom, and is believed to be an adulterated semi-synthetic full agonist opioid and should be treated as such... in this case suboxone isn't such a bad idea. Switching to plain leaf would be a huge step down as well. Something else that's quite a factor in withdrawal intensity is prior addiction, which prior oxy abuse has been admitted. It's very easy to re-install tolerance and withdrawal intensity from previous addictions... it's just a shitty aspect of opioid abuse unfortunately

    People need to differentiate kratom between super strong extracts and in this case, adulterated non-kratom extracts as the difference is huge, which is even apparent in the OP's case where plain leaf did nothing while UEI worked charms. In the case of UEI and FST in particular, these have been testes to contain zero kratom alkaloids whatsoever, none, zilch... this is not a kratom product.

    Plain leaf kratom consists mainly of partial agonists with a very set ceiling of effects, which means you can only get so high. Now, while 7-hydroxymitragynine is a full agonist, it's present in very minute amounts making mitragynine responsible for most of it's effects. Let's use salvia as an example... has anyone smoked pure unrefined salvia? It's actually pretty mild and breakthrough experiences are pretty damn hard to achieve and will pretty much never amount to what an extract can do. Then you have these potent extracts that will have you in a other planet with a few tokes... very big difference.

    Nobody insists that kratom "isn't addictive", I've never seen that claim made and not go uncorrected. There are however people on kratom sites comparing kratom addiction to coffee, which is absolutely rediculous, but these sites are usually very pro kratom and say this only to keep the plant from negative attention. The first advice given to any new users by pretty much everyone is avoid extracts . Comparing extract to plain leaf is a huge difference, more than inexperienced users realize. Plain leaf itself is very much addictive, but to compare it to heroin is beyond comical... and to say that kratom is pretty much heroin and then go on to say that it's what codeine is to heroin suggests that you (whoever it is that said that) also think that codeine is "pretty much heroin", which is rediculous at best.
    Last edited by 《Plasticity》; 04-05-2015 at 03:01.
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    #15
    I would agree with Captain Kratom
    The extracts almost always contain some kind of adulterated product

    It may take quite a few times to find a suitable plain leaf but you'll find it and then be able to cut down with that

    Plain leaf natural kratom is a lifesaver for a situation like that or any other one where actual opiates are involved
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choose Life View Post
    I would agree with Captain Kratom
    The extracts almost always contain some kind of adulterated product

    It may take quite a few times to find a suitable plain leaf but you'll find it and then be able to cut down with that

    Plain leaf natural kratom is a lifesaver for a situation like that or any other one where actual opiates are involved
    That's not necessarily true, in fact most kratom extracts are indeed just high concentrations of plain leaf alkaloids... which is still a problem as you expose your receptors to far more than what plain leaf can provide which leads to a sharper spike in tolerance and a shittier withdrawal. Aside from the whole krypton kratom extract that was sold in headshops years ago which later was shown to contain O-desmethyltramadol, these two extracts (UEI and FST) are afaik, the only two adulterated extracts on the market atm.

    These extracts aren't necessarily bad nor any more dangerous than other full-agonist pharmaceuticals, but they must be treated with respect and either used as a rare treat or avoided altogether or you'll find yourself in the depths of a nasty dependance. Best advice is to just stick with plain leaf...
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by f33lg00d View Post
    Yeah i agree with its like codeine to heroin. Ive never heard of someone shooting it, do you actually know people that have tried? $90 of fst would barely hold me for an hr when i was dependent on h.



    Its really not hes spending $500 a week on kratom. Suboxone is completely reasonable, and will help keep the family housed and feed.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainKratom View Post
    UEI and FST is not kratom, contains no kratom, and is believed to be an adulterated semi-synthetic full agonist opioid and should be treated as such... in this case suboxone isn't such a bad idea. Switching to plain leaf would be a huge step down as well. Something else that's quite a factor in withdrawal intensity is prior addiction, which prior oxy abuse has been admitted. It's very easy to re-install tolerance and withdrawal intensity from previous addictions... it's just a shitty aspect of opioid abuse unfortunately

    People need to differentiate kratom between super strong extracts and in this case, adulterated non-kratom extracts as the difference is huge, which is even apparent in the OP's case where plain leaf did nothing while UEI worked charms. In the case of UEI and FST in particular, these have been testes to contain zero kratom alkaloids whatsoever, none, zilch... this is not a kratom product.

    The most likely candidate from vendors to people in "the know" (for lack of a better term) is Mitragynine Pseudo-indoxyl, a semi-synthetic full agonist which is just about no different than something like oxy. Plain leaf kratom consists mainly of partial agonists with a very set ceiling of effects, which means you can only get so high. Now, while 7-hydroxymitragynine is a full agonist, it's present in very minute amounts making mitragynine responsible for most of it's effects.

    Let's use salvia as an example... has anyone smoked pure unrefined salvia? It's actually pretty mild and breakthrough experiences are pretty damn hard to achieve and will pretty much never amount to what an extract can do. Then you have these potent extracts that will have you in a other planet with a few tokes... very big difference.

    Nobody insists that kratom "isn't addictive", I've never seen that claim made and not go uncorrected. There are however people on kratom sites comparing kratom addiction to coffee, which is absolutely rediculous, but these sites are usually very pro kratom and say this only to keep the plant from negative attention. The first advice given to any new users by pretty much everyone is avoid extracts . Comparing extract to plain leaf is a huge difference, more than inexperienced users realize. Plain leaf itself is very much addictive, but to compare it to heroin is beyond comical... and to say that kratom is pretty much heroin and then go on to say that it's what codeine is to heroin suggests that you (whoever it is that said that) also think that codeine is "pretty much heroin", which is rediculous at best.

    You are grossly miss quoting me at best. This tincture was obtained through a really high end vendor and is most definitely a kratom extract consisting of kratom alkaloids. You can pm me if you'd like to know more. Now, how did you get "codeine is pretty much heroin" from my statements? Codeine with a few chemical processes can be made into heroin, kratom with a few chemical processes can be made into FST. Get it?

    When my mom decided to give it up she had about 300 ml she gave me to dispose of. I gave it to a friend of mine who is balls deep in opiates and really likes kratom. He's a pretty smart guy generally but I probably wouldn't have given it to him if I knew he was gonna bang it. Anyways he started off putting some on weed and letting the ethanol evaporate, the first time he smoked it I happened to be around and subsequently watched him nod for a solid hour or so. We noticed that the ethanol was leaving really stable residue almost crystalline in form. He took maybe 50 ml and evaporated the ethanol and smoked tiny amounts to nod throughout the day. He decided to save it since he had a bunch of dillies and stuff (he usually shoots these). So a couple weeks pass and he eventually runs out of his scripts so he's back to the FST, which he tells me he's excited to IV. I wasn't around at the time and I told him not to do it but I guess he took like .1-2 of the extract (after evap) in a cooker and added water. He filtered but told me that the solution was brownish, and that it burnt less some things he spiked. He has never done heroin but has been a long time IV user, -the next time I saw him when we were discussing this he explained that he understood what doing heroin was like. In one amazing act of self control the likes of which I have never witnessed by any person truly dependent on opiates admit to he dumped the rest down the drain. He still had a bunch of other really good drugs but still it impressed me a lot because I think it's caused him to reevaluate his use of opiates. I think most people need to come to the line they never want to cross to realize that they need to do something about their use. If your husband really wants to pull it together he will, all he needs is your help and support and loperamide and a bucket and water and bathroom close by and some NSAIDs for the crippling headaches and well you get it. Best thing you can do is be there for him and although he has definitely fucked up I think it's important not to be to harsh as I'm sure he never intended it to be this way as most user don't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by f33lg00d View Post
    Yeah i agree with its like codeine to heroin. Ive never heard of someone shooting it, do you actually know people that have tried? $90 of fst would barely hold me for an hr when i was dependent on h.



    Its really not hes spending $500 a week on kratom. Suboxone is completely reasonable, and will help keep the family housed and feed.
    Look, I'm completely aghast at the reliance on faith based recovery prevalent throughout america, and the rejection of suboxone and it's view as some insanely hard core drug. However, for kratom, it really seems like his dosage is at such a high variability that to try without subs would be a logical FIRST choice. He could be getting bunk shit/ripped off who knows what, you can't know until you've really tried, and I was also going to as Captain Kratom did that a plain leaf taper would seem like a very good idea. This all goes with me actually being fine with him being on subs if it comes down to that, but for this specifically it seems like they wouldn't be the immediate (again) FIRST choice.
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    Yeah I hear yeah dirt, you could be right and he might be getting weak stuff; i just assuked he was getting it from the vendor captain was talking about that does some tinkering to the active chem. Plain leaf taper would be a nice idea, but since its a full agonist its a little more tempting to abuse and theres no medical supervision. A short 5-7 day stay a detox facility could really help, he cant mess with the doses, given supplementary nonopioid drugs to lessen withdrawal and get psychological help.


    Damn swimming thats radical if I wasnt dead set on staying in recovery, I'd definitely try that just to see how to compares. Did your friend shoot his dillies too? Cuz if it was as good as that then.... Mmm I need to stop this train of thought...



    "I am pissed that he basically tricked me becuase he wanted to feel good ALL the TIME. HELP! Help me help him. What do you wish your loved one would have done or not done to help you?" Opioid addiction is insidious, its really not wanting to feel good all the time; its wanting to feel okay. Dont be angery, and talk down to him. Be supporting but firm that you cant continue a live with him if hes using. Dont take the lying personally, addiction trys to protect its self; its nothing personal.
    Last edited by f33lg00d; 07-02-2015 at 19:55.
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    Definitely no to suboxone taper or maintenance. Buprenorphine (the active ingredient in suboxone) is much more powerful than any kratom extraction. More than likely he will get a huge buzz off of subs since eventhough he is addicted to kratom his opiate tolerance is still very low compared to full agonist opiate/opioids addicts. Not what you want for someone who is trying to recover from an addiction. I was a full blown IV herion addict with a 5 to 10 bag a day habit the 1st time I tried suboxone & an 8mg suboxone pill floored me! You'd probably be opening Pandora's box by going the suboxone route. Best bet is for you to give him his doses of kratom & slowly taper the dosage down till his physical WD from kratom is bearable.
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    ^ Would you say the same if somebody was on several hundred mgs of oxy daily? Because that's just about what we're dealing with here, no kratom whatsoever here... we're dealing with entirely novel substances at least on par with ox/hydro, with no ceiling to how high you can get. Forget that UEI is marketed as a kratom product because whatever the main ingredient, whether it really be this pseudo-indoxyl compound or another synthetic mitragynine analog it contains nothing found in kratom, only some sort of Corynantheidine based substance confirmed through testing.

    I agree that sub is overkill most of the time and switching to plain leaf kratom is probably a better choice, but when we're dealing with a ten gram UEI habit suboxone is a very sane and reasonable choice. With a tolerance of 10 grams of UEI, he won't even be feeling suboxone recreationaly... and will more than likely have to taper a bunch before even making a comfortable jump. I'd be surprised if he even feels a dose of 100mgs of oxycodone.

    Quote Originally Posted by swimmingencouraged View Post
    You are grossly miss quoting me at best.
    I don't feel like reading that huge paragraph but I do apologize, I misread that post. All but those two sentences were in response to nobody in paricular though so don't think that my whole post was out to discredit you or anything. I happened to skim the thread lightly a day or two before posting and was perhaps a bit off, which I can easily see how that would happen.

    With that said even FST is still not "pretty much heroin" though. I'd say UEI and FST are about on the level of oral hydro or oxy, and that plain leaf is on par with codeine addiction wise. 2 grams of UEI will get me to the level of ~60mgs of hydro, give or take.
    Last edited by 《Plasticity》; 04-05-2015 at 03:06.
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    #22
    Bluelighter Bliss26's Avatar
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    I'd try to do a FST taper under your control, or a lope taper. If that fails I would try suboxone.
    Although I understand your anger and frustration , that is not going to help or motivate hubby. Let him try to get clean before throwing out ultimatums. Try to be encouraging and non judgemental. IMO he kind of fell into this Probably with little info on the strength/danger of fst.
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by f33lg00d View Post
    Yeah I hear yeah dirt, you could be right and he might be getting weak stuff; i just assuked he was getting it from the vendor captain was talking about that does some tinkering to the active chem. Plain leaf taper would be a nice idea, but since its a full agonist its a little more tempting to abuse and theres no medical supervision. A short 5-7 day stay a detox facility could really help, he cant mess with the doses, given supplementary nonopioid drugs to lessen withdrawal and get psychological help.


    Damn swimming thats radical if I wasnt dead set on staying in recovery, I'd definitely try that just to see how to compares. Did your friend shoot his dillies too? Cuz if it was as good as that then.... Mmm I need to stop this train of thought...



    "I am pissed that he basically tricked me becuase he wanted to feel good ALL the TIME. HELP! Help me help him. What do you wish your loved one would have done or not done to help you?" Opioid addiction is insidious, its really not wanting to feel good all the time; its wanting to feel okay. Dont be angery, and talk down to him. Be supporting but firm that you cant continue a live with him if hes using. Dont take the lying personally, addiction trys to protect its self; its nothing personal.
    I only really recall him doing it when he was out of anything stronger than oxy. He definitely got fucking blasted off it the couple times I witnessed, and he has a pretty strong running her on habit. Stay strong man one day at a time and just think about how much money your saving.

    I still disagree with you as far as ALL vendors selling a synthetic product, especially ones who pride themselves on creating a private community of kratom connoisseurs. They're pretty much as balls deep into kratom as you capn and I don't think it would be a secret amongst them for very long. Or maybe I have penis stuck in my ears.
    Last edited by swimmingencouraged; 09-02-2015 at 20:30. Reason: accidentally posted prematurely
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    #24
    Bluelight Crew dopemaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f33lg00d View Post
    Goto a suboxone clinic
    That sounds stupid. Suboxone is horrific in terms of withdrawals and is actually a narcotic.

    Kratom is kind of less addictive than caffeine in my book.

    Really, crying over kratom. Sounds like dude needs to grow a pair and stop taking kratom, unless kratom is a code name for heroin in your area.

    I really don't how you can compare kratom to heroin. I had ordered it from multiple sources to try to give my pain meds a kick and the stuff did fuckall for me, even the tinctures.

    Seeing how the OP's husband hasn't really had a history of opiate addiction it doesn't seem like cold turkey would be a bad way to kick. Each kick gets worse than the last and I have gone cold turkey at least 10 times off of real opiates.

    There are plenty of detox guides on this site. Also he could go to the doctor and get some muscle relaxers, clonodine, and promethazine to kick if he was to explain the situation.

    I really do not think going on a nasty substitute drug like suboxone is the answer. That would just be switching a short addiction for a nastier and probably longer one. He might as well get on heroin and then go on methadone with that logic.

    I am 99.9% sure that unless the OP's kratom is adulturated with RC's of some sort than he is kind of being a pussy about things imho. There is also the possibility that the OP's husband is lying about what he is really spending the money on and maybe is using heroin or something of that nature and is just saying he is addicted to kratom. The local head shop hear sells kratom capsules for less than a nickle sooo maybe he is just popping kratom capsules in front of the OP and main-lining smack in the bathroom. I am just saying this because no one else brought that up. 525 is a shitload of money to spend on kratom at any time period. With that type of bankroll, I could afford at least a couple weeks worth of a heavy duty smack habit with that and I mean heavy duty.
    Last edited by dopemaster; 21-02-2015 at 09:45.
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    #25
    Bluelighter Whosajiggawaaa's Avatar
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    The prima facie facts are Subs (buprenorphine) are 100 x stronger than morphine on paper. The OP's husband might get full on addicted to subs too as some people really enjoy the high (myself not included) and that is a different ballpark all together, if your husband is this addicted to Kratom, I think the potential for Sub abuse (buying extras on the street prob cost you even more) is great.

    I'd also advocate for a taper, you take your husbands Extracts, and means of obtaining k-extracts (credit cards and such) if possible and taper him off in reasonable decrements.
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