psychedelic enlightenment my experience

[Erikmen]

What´s not to agree??

 

[murphythecat]

theres two type of suffering, the buddha said, mental and physical. yes a buddha can suffer physically, but will not suffer mentally.

look the arrow parabole:
"When touched with a feeling of pain, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person sorrows, grieves, & laments, beats his breast, becomes distraught. So he feels two pains, physical & mental. Just as if they were to shoot a man with an arrow and, right afterward, were to shoot him with another one, so that he would feel the pains of two arrows; in the same way, when touched with a feeling of pain, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person sorrows, grieves, & laments, beats his breast, becomes distraught. So he feels two pains, physical & mental..."

"Now, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones, when touched with a feeling of pain, does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, does not beat his breast or become distraught. So he feels one pain: physical, but not mental. Just as if they were to shoot a man with an arrow and, right afterward, did not shoot him with another one, so that he would feel the pain of only one arrow. In the same way, when touched with a feeling of pain, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, does not beat his breast or become distraught. He feels one pain: physical, but not mental..."

This ^ is an absurdly overinflated, idealistic and impossibly unrealistic definition of "enlightenment" that puts it miles out of reach of anyone, and means that nobody ever becomes enlightened.

Beware of unenlightened definitions of enlightenment such as this one that make enlightenment impossible. Enlightened people can suffer just like unenlightened people can....

about the rest of what I said, its overall true. but since your right that its a over simplification that I was aware of, here the 7 factors of enlightenment

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/piyadassi/wheel001.html


Mindfulness (sati)
Keen investigation of the dhamma (dhammavicaya)[3]
Energy (viriya)
Rapture or happiness (piti)
Calm (passaddhi)
Concentration (samadhi)
Equanimity (upekkha)

 

[pupnik]

I think you are wandering; what can you do to make any of this meaningful in a psychedelic context?
you do not need to pose as a Buddhist scholar
try to focus your awareness on
enlightenment as regards psychedelic and add nothing extraneous.

 

[Ismene]

when touched with a feeling of pain, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, does not beat his breast or become distraught. He feels one pain: physical, but not mental..."

So when your dog dies you don't feel any sadness or anything? You just bury it in a hole in the garden and wander off to meditate?

 

[Doldrugs]

That does sound like some bullshit. Like Kirk, I don't want my pain taken away. I need my pain! I just don't like it to make my decisions for me. I guess that's why I'm not a Buddhist.

 

[pupnik]

see, now it is the jesuits and the hurons again!

 

[murphythecat]

im no buddha, im attached to my cat, so I would be sad.

So when your dog dies you don't feel any sadness or anything? You just bury it in a hole in the garden and wander off to meditate?

 

[Ismene]

Even buddha would be sad when his cat died.

 

[neurotic]

that was poetic a f

 

[max_freakout]

Defining enlightenment as the kind of total cessation of "attachments" that would mean you wouldnt be sad when a loved one dies is a typical, arbitrarily self-defeating tactic that unenlightened people employ when talking about enlightenment, defining it in such a way that makes it off-limits to 99.9% of people.

The only meaningful definition of enlightenment is - what happens when you trip hard on psychedelics and the experience transforms the way you think. This kind of enlightenment is straightforward and easily achievable to *anybody* who has the right drugs and the right attitude/understanding.

Psychedelic enlightenment is the basis of all religions including Buddhism - every Buddha (including 'the' buddha Siddartha Gautama) is depicted eating the magic "rice pudding" (ie entheogen) immediately prior to their enlightenment:

 

[Ismene]

I eat the sacred rice pudding every day and I'm still not enlightened max.

 

[max_freakout]

I eat the sacred rice pudding every day and I'm still not enlightened max.

if you eat it every day you end up like Budai, the chubby buddha:

 

[Ismene]

It is christmas max - we can let ourselves go for a while!

 

[swilow]

The sacred pudding could possibly be....rice. Why must it be a psychedelic? Lets look at the mindlessness of a lot of world religions, the insistence that we are all fallen and sinful- do we really think psychedelics have anything to do with that nonsense? I do not see why people wish to denigrate psychedelics by claiming they are the same or basis for the decandence of many world religions. Religion was a tool we used to describe and make sense of the world with before we had truth and fact. People that believe that religion and psychedelics are inextricably linked are taken on the negativity of thousands of years and applied it to the beautiful psychedelic state. Why people wish to do this, I do not know....

I love discussions of the nature of enlightnement vs the psychedelic state. Not a single individual that has posted in this thread is enlightened in the ancient sense of the word. Any claims about the state of enlightenment need to be taken as speculative and conjecture.

 

[swilow]

Merry Fruiting Jesus Day!

 

[pupnik]

rudolf will show up soon.
thank god
it's been a whole year

 

[murphythecat]

ya I agree. I believe psychadelics states brings me a 100 time closer to a true spiritual and awekening experience then most religious dude out there.

on buddhism forums, theres those scholar who dismiss any drugs and I dont disagree. I agree that opiates, speed are most often then not are very not spiritual enhancer and brings more harm then good, but psychadelics and a breakthrought experience will change a individual for ever. I know it did for me and made me a buddhist. it made me see and understand stuff I would have never believe. it made me spiritual in a way.

anyways!

The sacred pudding could possibly be....rice. Why must it be a psychedelic? Lets look at the mindlessness of a lot of world religions, the insistence that we are all fallen and sinful- do we really think psychedelics have anything to do with that nonsense? I do not see why people wish to denigrate psychedelics by claiming they are the same or basis for the decandence of many world religions. Religion was a tool we used to describe and make sense of the world with before we had truth and fact. People that believe that religion and psychedelics are inextricably linked are taken on the negativity of thousands of years and applied it to the beautiful psychedelic state. Why people wish to do this, I do not know....

I love discussions of the nature of enlightnement vs the psychedelic state. Not a single individual that has posted in this thread is enlightened in the ancient sense of the word. Any claims about the state of enlightenment need to be taken as speculative and conjecture.

 

[murphythecat]

its very well described in buddhism what are the factors and the path to enlightenment. just read this
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/piyadassi/wheel001.html
wether you believe it or not doesn't change the fact that its a totally logical philosophical/religion and that its not stupid to believe in a state of mind like the buddha.

by the way, a good meditation session will bring as much insight and change your life just as much then a psy trip. I don't care if you don't believe it because it never happened to you. Its just like guys who critic us, psychonaut, who thinks that our psychedelics strong experience is spiritual. IT is for us, and those who critic that are ridiculous.

Defining enlightenment as the kind of total cessation of "attachments" that would mean you wouldnt be sad when a loved one dies is a typical, arbitrarily self-defeating tactic that unenlightened people employ when talking about enlightenment, defining it in such a way that makes it off-limits to 99.9% of people.

The only meaningful definition of enlightenment is - what happens when you trip hard on psychedelics and the experience transforms the way you think. This kind of enlightenment is straightforward and easily achievable to *anybody* who has the right drugs and the right attitude/understanding.

Psychedelic enlightenment is the basis of all religions including Buddhism - every Buddha (including 'the' buddha Siddartha Gautama) is depicted eating the magic "rice pudding" (ie entheogen) immediately prior to their enlightenment:

 

[Ismene]

by the way, a good meditaiton session will bring as much insight and change your life just as much then a psy trip. I dont care if you dont believe it because it never happened to you. you sound like guys who critic us by thinking that our psychadelics strong experience is spiritual. you sound like them

Not for me murph. Psychedelics have got to have massively more power firstly because you arn't sober. Being sober puts a limit on the depth of emotion you can access. Psychedelics open the door.

 

[murphythecat]

no problemo, I can only say for me.

indeed psychedelic opened the door too.
but its a different type of insight you get from insight meditation brought by stillness of the mind. anwayys, there a lot of buddhism forum, its not the place!

its like for my psycahdelics showed me the way to a mind who should be more calm, more peaceful, more loving. and meditation and buddhism is the application of those psycahdelics insight until a true transformation can occur.

There so far you can go with only psy, you need to do the work outside of the trip, and this is where it gets hard.

Not for me murph. Psychedelics have got to have massively more power firstly because you arn't sober. Being sober puts a limit on the depth of emotion you can access. Psychedelics open the door.