The Infamous Opiate Taper and Introduction

anonman17 · Aug 30, 2014

Hi everyone!

I'm a 26-year-old guy living in the Pacific Northwest (near Seattle). I was sober after a heavy heroin, cocaine, and alcohol (and everything else) addiction for five years. My life was going along just fine until I injured my back; I fucked myself up in the gym: a spinal disc rupture. The pain was bad enough to nearly drive me insane. The doctors began prescribing me pain medication and that's when I started to slip down the slope. At first, my medication consumption was in control. For several months, actually. I had weird thoughts about the medication and I sought out street connects in case my doctor stopped prescribing me, but nothing too risky was going on. My tolerance was still pretty low; I only took only a few Vicodin a day. Then, at the end of June, I re-injured my back. The pain came back with a vengeance. I couldn't get into the doctor's fast enough and so I took to the streets. I found a guy who looked like he knew where opiates were and asked him. He couldn't get me pain killers but he could get heroin.

And so I was off.

It's now two months later and I've been using almost everyday. It's wearing on my pocket book, relationships, and definitely my ambitions. I've tried a number of other things to make it to subboxone, but I'm a withdrawal weenie. So, I've got a few grams of pretty strong tar and a bottle of 28 morphine. I wanna taper down and maybe even go all the way with the subs. I figure my heroin (IV) taper will look like this:

Day 1 (today)

Breakfast (noon): .25 of a gram
Lunch(4pm): .20 of a gram
Dinner(9pm): .18 of a gram

Day 2 (tomorrow)

Breakfast: .20 of a gram
Lunch: .17 of a gram
Dinner .15 of a gram

Day 3

Breakfast: .17 of a gram
Lunch: .14 of a gram
Dinner: .11 of a gram

Day 4

Breakfast: .14 of a gram
Lunch: .10 of a gram
Dinner: .08 of a gram

Day 5

Breakfast: .10 of a gram
Lunch: .07 of a gram
Dinner: .05 of a gram

At this point, I'll be out of tar. So, I figure I'll switch to the morphine. They are the ER and therefore not worth shooting or snorting, really. I mean, it's possible but best not to do so during a taper. I don't know how many MG of morphine I'm gonna need to stay well, so I'm gonna start like this and see where it takes me:

Day 6 (switching from IV heroin to oral morphine)

Breakfast: 30 mg
Lunch: 15 mg
Dinner: 30 mg

Day 7

Breakfast: 22 mg
Lunch: 15 mg
Dinner: 22 mg

Day 8

Breakfast: 22 mg
Lunch 15 mg
Dinner 22 mg

Day 9

Breakfast: 22 mg
Lunch: 7 mg
Dinner: 22 mg

Day 10

Breakfast 15 mg
Lunch : 7 mg
Dinner: 22 mg

Day 11

Breakfast: 15 mg
Lunch: 7 mg
Dinner: 15 mg

Day 12

Breakfast: 15 mg
Lunch: 7 mg
Dinner: 15 mg

Day 13

Breakfast: 15 mg
Lunch: 0
Dinner: 15 mg

Day 14

Breakfast: 7 mg
Dinner: 15 mg

At this point, I'll be out of morphine. It's here I wanna try and make the leap to subboxone.

So, I'm going to sign in every day and let you folks know how my taper is going. What I really love is not the high, but the act of shooting up. I could just compulsively shoot up all day. (although, shooting up water just doesn't do it for me mentally). This is going to make the leap from heroin to the morphine difficult. However, this is a worthy effort since I start school in a few weeks and need to be myself! I would love to hear about your meaningful experiences of getting sober. The first time around, I used AA to get and stay sober. I would like to hear about folks who did it without a 12-step program.

Thanks!
Anonman

neversickanymore · Aug 30, 2014

Welcome to BL

I would consider figuring out a schedule where you will drop your dose every five or six days. I would also give yourself five days from the last drop in dose until you will run out. Then I would leave myself a good twenty four hours with nothing and then jump on the subs. I see allot of people that start a daily tapper like this and do very well for the first four days, but then the half life of the removed drugs catches up with the constant drop and they find they are "all the sudden" in strong withdrawals. I think it takes at least five days for the system to readjust of morphine. So I would consider doing the tapper in five day steps. This way you wont ever feal really bad except right before you jump to the subs. You can also scale down your amount pretty good.

We generally send taper questions up to Basic Drug Discussion or Other Drugs. Then it can be shot back down for further support and advice. So im going to shoot it up there and you can request to have it sent back by PM any of the good staff up there or me as well.

Good luck.. its going to be a little unpleasant, but you will push through.. freedom lies at the end!!

SL ---> BDD

anonman17 · Aug 30, 2014

Hey neversick! thanks for the advice and help!

In regards to the taper: I think I understand what you're saying but I'm having a difficult time envisioning it. Could you give me an example, please?

neversickanymore · Aug 30, 2014

Sure whats your average daily intake right now?

anonman17 · Aug 30, 2014

With the heroin that I have in my possession (and I suspect this is cut with a longer acting opiate, like fentynol), I probably do about .75- 1 gram a day. This amount gets me "fucked-up."

Thanks!

neversickanymore · Aug 30, 2014

So how much do you need not to feal sick? take this and then drop as much as you feal comfortable with and hold for six day, then drop again and hold, and then keep rolling in this fashion.

as a basic concept if your taking (hypothetically)

If your taking 750mgpd and would want to taper.. I would then identify whats the smallest dose where your not sick. then drop the dose to something you can deal with.. lets say you can drop it to 350mgpd. I would then stay at this dose for five or six days and you will likely experience the most discomfort day two and three. Then after the five or six days are up, I would drop the amount you think you can deal with.. lets say its down 150 more mg.. same thing should happen.. then after six days a drop another 100 or so, but plan it out so that you have five or six days before you do the one day safety jump to get on the subs. remember we need to be in strong withdrawals to avoid the subs triggering precipitated withdrawal.

This would be the way I would do it. Here is a conversion chart for opiates

Opioid Conversion Chart

Rybee · Aug 30, 2014

Sorry - I'm confused...

0.5g is 500mg.
0.10g is 100mg

0.050 is 50mg
0.010 is 10mg

neversickanymore · Aug 30, 2014

Rybee said:
Sorry - I'm confused...

0.5g is 500mg.
0.10g is 100mg

0.050 is 50mg
0.010 is 10mg

1 Gram = 1000 Milligrams
Gram is a metric system unit of mass. It is one thousandth (1/1000) of the metric system base unit, kilogram. It is a very commonly used unit of mass in daily life. The abbreviation is "g".
Milligram is a small unit of mass in metric system and used commonly in medicine and pharmacy etc. The abbreviation is "mg"

source

So if he is taking .75 g this would equal 750mgpd or .75 x 1000.

Did this clear it up?

anonman17 · Aug 30, 2014

Sorry, I was a bit confusing.

.25 of a gram is 250mg
.10 of a gram is 100mg
.050 of a gram is 50mg

anonman17 · Aug 30, 2014

right. that's totally correct.

anonman17 · Aug 31, 2014

neversickanymore said:
So how much do you need not to feal sick? take this and then drop as much as you feal comfortable with and hold for six day, then drop again and hold, and then keep rolling in this fashion.

as a basic concept if your taking (hypothetically)

If your taking 750mgpd and would want to taper.. I would then identify whats the smallest dose where your not sick. then drop the dose to something you can deal with.. lets say you can drop it to 350mgpd. I would then stay at this dose for five or six days and you will likely experience the most discomfort day two and three. Then after the five or six days are up, I would drop the amount you think you can deal with.. lets say its down 150 more mg.. same thing should happen.. then after six days a drop another 100 or so, but plan it out so that you have five or six days before you do the one day safety jump to get on the subs. remember we need to be in strong withdrawals to avoid the subs triggering precipitated withdrawal.

Okay, let me figure out a new taper and then put it in here. Also, what is the best way to use the "quote" feature of the forum?

neversickanymore · Aug 31, 2014

There is a the quote button which is below all of our posts that will set you up with an opportunity to post with the quote already provided. the button right next to that allows you to multi quote from different people or posts and you just need to culminate with the normal quote button when you are ready to do this. Other wise the bubble in the tool bar also will allow you to post and then add the quote bubble.

Rybee · Aug 31, 2014

That's fine...

But going from 220mg of IV Heroin on day 5 to just 75mg of oral morphine on day 6 is a huge drop?

Day 1 = 630mg IV Heroin
Day 6 = 75mg Oral Morphine / ~25mg IV Morphine

25mg IV Morphine ~ 15mg IV Heroin

So 220mg IV Heroin on day 1 to 25mg of ~IV Heroin on day 6 seems like a very harsh taper?

Or am I missing something?

anonman17 · Aug 31, 2014

So this is an altered taper. I can't stretch it out too long because I don't have enough dope. I could go buy some more, but it won't be the same batch and therefore the dosing will be way off. I haven't altered the morphine part of the taper yet because I don't know how I'll feel. Anyways, what do you think?

Day 1 (today-trying to figure out starting dose, total: 500mg)

Breakfast (noon): .25 of a gram
Lunch(4pm): .15 of a gram
Dinner(9pm): .10 of a gram

Day 2 (tomorrow-trying to figure out starting dose, total: 350mg)

Breakfast: .15 of a gram
Lunch: .10 of a gram
Dinner .10 of a gram

Day 3 (still trying to figure out dose, if appropriate, will hold at today's total of 300mg)

Breakfast: .15of a gram
Dinner: .15 of a gram

Day 4 (total 300mg)

Breakfast: .15 of a gram
Dinner: .15 of a gram

Day 5 (Doing another drop because don't have enough to stretch it out too long, today's total: 225mg)

Breakfast: .10 of a gram
Dinner: .125 of a gram

Day 6 (total: 225mg)

Breakfast: .10 of a gram
Dinner: .125 of a gram

Day 7 (total: 225mg)

Breakfast: .10 of a gram
Dinner: .125 of a gram

Day 8 (next drop, today' total: 150 mg)

Breakfast: .10 of a gram
Dinner: .05 of a gram

Day 9 (switching from IV heroin to oral morphine) (75mg)

Breakfast: 30 mg
Lunch: 15 mg
Dinner: 30 mg

Day 10

Breakfast: 22 mg
Lunch: 15 mg
Dinner: 22 mg

Day 11

Breakfast: 22 mg
Lunch 15 mg
Dinner 22 mg

Day 12

Breakfast: 22 mg
Lunch: 7 mg
Dinner: 22 mg

Day 13

Breakfast 15 mg
Lunch : 7 mg
Dinner: 22 mg

Day 14

Breakfast: 15 mg
Lunch: 7 mg
Dinner: 15 mg

Day 15

Breakfast: 15 mg
Lunch: 7 mg
Dinner: 15 mg

Day 16

Breakfast: 15 mg
Lunch: 0
Dinner: 15 mg

Day 17

Breakfast: 7 mg
Dinner: 15 mg

anonman17 · Aug 31, 2014

Rybee said:
That's fine...

But going from 220mg of IV Heroin on day 5 to just 75mg of oral morphine on day 6 is a huge drop?

Day 1 = 630mg IV Heroin
Day 6 = 75mg Oral Morphine / ~25mg IV Morphine

25mg IV Morphine ~ 15mg IV Heroin

So 220mg IV Heroin on day 1 to 25mg of ~IV Heroin on day 6 seems like a very harsh taper?

Or am I missing something?

Yeah, now that i'm looking at this according to the mg doses, it is very harsh. I need to figure out how to taper down effectively with the supplies that I have.

anonman17 · Aug 31, 2014

I thought I wrote this already, but it appears not:

The heroin is not an exact measurement. There is not way to tell the exact milligrams of heroin are in each dose. What you see is the scale weight. That is the only means of measuring that I have. It's black tar and so it's full of lots of other impurities and such. So, I could shoot a piece the weighs 500 milligrams, yet it might only contain 100 mg of heroin. I have no way of knowing :/

neversickanymore · Aug 31, 2014

Here are some medications that could really aid you in your taper. Its actaully a list for detox, but its really the same thing.. I would really look into the Neurontin or Lyrica

NSFW:

anonman17 · Aug 31, 2014

Hey there,

Yeah, some of these are great. How does one obtain the RX ones though, like clondine? ALso, can you bump this thread back to recovery? it seems to have died and I want to keep it going and full of support during the taper.
/

neversickanymore · Aug 31, 2014

Sure.. I would go into a physician and tell them what you are trying to do. I would bring the study for the gabapentin in case they are not aware of it. These medications are not opiates and are usually given out pretty freely by physicians if we just go in and tell them listen, I got myself in a bad spot, but Im in the process of to getting myself back out. I would consider seeing a GP. Those doctors are usually really receptive to people who come in and ask them for medications to aid them. If you decide to include the benzos please keep those to a very short run and just at night.. no need to trade on physical dependence for another.

Before you get into this I would familiarize yourself with PAWS and try and come up with a good plan to try and work through it. This provides you with a good working model that you can adjust and add to if and when you encounter it. I would also research addiction and see what you can find about it.. be aware there is a ton of conflicting stuff from a ton a people who are working on this and from even more who are struggling with it.. just saying that study is not going to be black and white..lol, its really a god damn war zone out there at times.

NSFW:

Often when we start detoxing the grey matter kinda shuts down for a bit.. so its good to look it over before.

You got this!!

Rybee · Aug 31, 2014

Oh ok.

If I'm honest I just think it's a very rapid taper and I think anyone would struggle on that.

Are you able to get help from a doctor?

The Infamous Opiate Taper and Introduction

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