Mental Health I never had psychosis till I got on antipsychotics

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

My doctor says I'm shichzo affective. I have been in a psychotic state now for the last year and a half and it never goes away no matter what antipsychotic I take, and I've taken a shit load.

Honestly I didn't have ideal remission of symptoms until I was put in a medium-term hospital for three months. It really does take six months of being on one AP to have the greatest benefit. If after six months (with dosage increases) it doesn't work, my non-medical opinion (as always) would be to switch anti-psychotics.

 

[emilseine]

Paxil made me nuts and crazy and delusional, but not to where I wanted to hurt people. I just thought I was in the movie vanilla sky and tried to jump off a building like he did at the end, ended up in rehab where they put me on Loxapine, when that caused Tardive Dyskenisa I got off it and then went nuts, was being transferred to risperdal, then went into the hospital and was given serequel.

 

[crOOk]

Honestly I didn't have ideal remission of symptoms until I was put in a medium-term hospital for three months. It really does take six months of being on one AP to have the greatest benefit. If after six months (with dosage increases) it doesn't work, my non-medical opinion (as always) would be to switch anti-psychotics.

It definitely can. My hallucinations lasted less than 3 months, but my delusions were going strong for quite some time, probably 9 months total (of which I was on olanzapine/quetiapine for 7 months), it's hard to make a cut since there wasn't any a-ha moment, but rather a gradual buildup and fadeout.

It doesn't sound to me like emilseine has actually been psychotic the entire time though, but rather that he has had a psychotic episode and has been suffering of intrusive thoughts the entire 18 months. He has been on at least 4 antipsychotics, none of which seem to have helped him at all with the intrusive thoughts. The psychosis brought on by paroxetine has been treated successfully the way I understand it and all that's left is treating the intrusive thoughts while making sure he doesn't become psychotic again.

@emilseine
Sorry if I was speaking about you in 3rd person there. :D It would seem like you are not currently psychotic by definition, not if these thoughts aren't severely functionally incapacitating and you can maintain good insight. In that case you'd be receiving the antipsychotics to keep it that way and also as an attempt to treat the intrusive thoughts. Your doctor is probably very glad you aren't where you were after being on paroxetine...

Try to find the best antipsychotic for you with your doctor, there are still quite a few left that would be worth a try, e.g. you seem to not have tried clozapine which is known to be very efficient in treatment of positive schizophrenia symptoms. I cannot tell you whether it would be as efficient for intrusive thoughts in obesessive compulsive or schizoaffective disorder. I am still not sure what role this remaining isolated symptom and first symptom (?) plays in your illness and why it has not reacted to treatment 'at all' (?) while your psychotic episode has otherwise completely subsided.

Either way it might not hurt to ask your doctor about clozapine. It is usually a the preferred antipsychotic in treatment resistant positive symptoms like this. Also try to find a way to get psychotherapy imho.

And as Ho-Chi-Minh said, give yourself more time. Also give yourself rest from everything that is causing stress (if your financial situation allows it). As soon as there is any sort of improvement of the thoughts under treatment, it will hopefully just be a matter of time till they subside.

Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[emilseine]

Should I stick with the Saphris I'm taking even though it gains appetite?

 

[Shrooms00087]

Most definitely not by any medical definition of the word psychosis. I've been psychotic on psychedelics, I've been psychotic off psychedelics and I've been mentally healthy on and off psychedelics. While there is a wide range of symptoms that make up psychosis, the way I have experienced it and seen it in friends and patients was nothing like the state psychedelics induce whatsoever. Psychedelics used to be called psychotomimetics, but this has turned out to be complete and utter crap.

Pardon me but your experiences don't matter. Only the facts:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/

Psychedelics BY DEFINITION induce psychosis. I do not see how this can be argued. In fact Zizek goes as far as to say drug users experience autistic-like qualities.

 

[crOOk]

Pardon me but your experiences don't matter. Only the facts:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/

Psychedelics BY DEFINITION induce psychosis. I do not see how this can be argued. In fact Zizek goes as far as to say drug users experience autistic-like qualities.

Sorry man, I disagree and so does the medical world. What you posted there in no way proves your point. If you have a good understanding of how psychosis presents, then you would know than it is a fundamentally different state than being intoxicated by psychedelics! I cannot stress this enough. We can keep twisting the words "hallucination", "thought disorder", "delusion" and "disorganization" all day long and we could even end up agreeing with your claims that way, but it doesn't change the fact that these are fundamentally different states of mind.

However, psychosis CAN be induced by psychedelics and it is actually not that uncommon. I don't know you, but it is possible (eventhough unlikely) that you have become psychotic every single time you have taken psychedelics. This is not the state that psychedelics usually induce though.

Oh and btw, autism hasn't been considered a psychotic state for decades. So I don't see the point of saying that thing about autistic features. Also, experiences DO matter in recognizing illness. If you are a brilliant mind and have a perfect understanding of every single word in the diagnostic criteria, then DSM-IV is all you need to become a doctor, right? E.g. psychedelics (temporarily) changing your beliefs has nothing to do with the stubborness of a full-blown delusion, but if you haven't seen examples of both it is much harder to tell them apart. Experience isn't crucial when you are a gifted learner, but they help people discriminate different phenomena.

Either way, we are highjacking this thread and should probably take this to pm if you want to debate this any further.

 

[crOOk]

Should I stick with the Saphris I'm taking even though it gains appetite?

I would not be allowed to tell you to discontinue your medication, but if I was I surely wouldn't do so.
You say it hasn't worked AT ALL in treating your intrusive thoughts, right? Then go discuss this with your doctor and see what he says. If he believes it will take some more time, you will have to be patient or get a second opinion. My guess is he will try to switch you to something else (e.g. clozapine might be promising, but this is never a first-line treatment, due to the potential side effects).

Regarding the side effects... It is a very difficult process, but you will have to start accepting the fact that you are suffering of mental illness. It is one thing hearing that or repeating it, but it is another to appreciate the implications of such illness.

You might become better over time or you might become worse. It depends a lot on the course of the illness itself, your lifestyle and the changes you have made (abstinence from recreational drugs is an excellent measure and you have my respect for that) and of course how well your medication is working (and how compliant you are with the treatment).

If you find medication that successfully treats all your symptoms, then you will have to live with some side effects. The side effects of neuroleptics are harsh and they can become much worse in the long term.

When I went on neuroleptics, I gained 30kg in 10months. That's 100g per day. It plateaued there, but it still took me some energy to accept these things. I got mad at the crappy medication, but in all honesty it did what it was supposed to do.
I'm currently on lithium which hopefully won't kill my thyroid or cause kidney damage. Eventhough I have acquired some acne since I'm on Lithium, my skin is constantly so dry it gets white and scaly in places, my eyes are burning at times due to being so dry, I'm losing hair, I experience stomach aches and nausea a lot, I have to drink 3-4 liters of water per day or I'll start having tremors and headaches, I often don't know whether I should down that next glass of water because I feel so dehydrated or go take the next piss, sometimes urine leaks out into my pants which is something I gotta be on the lookout for every time I take a leak or things will get awkward.

I don't want to whine here, but just tell you that some side effects have to be accepted if you want to function. You will only be able to accept side effects if you acknowledge the seriousness of your symptoms and the illnesses functional impairment surpassing that of the side effects. I have a daughter and have paused my studying medicine due to going into full-blown mania. I am now 30 with a daughter of almost 5. A lot of things haven't gone the way I wished due to this illness. I just want to be a functional member of society without relying on illicit sources of money to support my child and her mother (from whom I am separated). If this means becoming somatically ill, so be it. It's a trade-off.

This is why I was asking you how impaired you are functionally due to your intrusive thoughts.

Best advice I could give is to try to eat healthy, even if it's still too much and do sports to burn through some energy (both of which I am currently failing at lol). For most people the weight gain will stop at a certain level.

 

[emilseine]

Do the side effects go away? B/c I'm also taking Depakote and it caused hunger, but it went away after 6 months.

 

[crOOk]

Do the side effects go away? B/c I'm also taking Depakote and it caused hunger, but it went away after 6 months.

Some can go away, some increase in intensity worse, others decrease in intensity, or you simply get used to them until they don't bother you anymore, some will just remain there as a new constant in your life.
If you really want to find out about how people feel who have been treated with neuroleptics, antidepressant, anticonvulsants and other drugs used to treat mental illness, I can only once more recommend "crazymeds" to you. It's a forum for people suffering of mental illness and focusses on medication.
I'd say as a rule of thumb, you'll have a very good idea what a med will feel like in the future when you've been taking it for 6-12months.

If the lithium side effects remain as bad as they are now, I will most certainly get off the stuff eventually, but just like you I am giving it more time.

 

[emilseine]

Do you think it would be bad for me to smoke meth?

 

[aq.]

Do you think it would be bad for me to smoke meth?

Yes.

If you're already experiencing psychosis meth can make it worse.

If you're not already experiencing it, then meth can cause you to experience it.

 

[crOOk]

Do you think it would be bad for me to smoke meth?

You can't be fucking serious, right? On this single page of thread, I told you about 5 times how important it is to stay off recreational drugs. This DEFINITELY includes methamphetamine.

In fact, if you were correctly diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, methamphetamine is by far the worst drug you could take (it will usually cause hypomania->mania which could happen after single use or could take some time). The same goes for other dopaminergic stimulants. Surely your doctor has told you this. I personally can barely handle caffeine (bp1).

To be honest it almost comes as an insult that you would ask this question. I've invested a lot of time to write all those posts. If you don't want these kinds of long answers, then just say so. Apparently you haven't read them or you wouldn't have to ask whether it was ok to take meth. You on your end have barely even taken the time to explain what happened in the past few years, a timeline would be kind of useful to get an understanding of where you are at.

Stick to your meds and stay off recreational drugs. I'm unsubscribing this thread. Good luck with your treatment!

 

[emilseine]

I wouldn't take it, but I used to abuse a year and a half ago and I miss it. I do read all the threads, was just wondering since it never caused me psychosis b4 if it would now. The time line is about 11 years of nonstop drug abuse, the last year and a half I have been sober. I swore I'd never touch drugs again b/c when I took abilify I went nuts, and that was off meth, just abilify. It started when I was in the year 2001 and started messing with E, years before that I was 18 and used pot and drank heavily till I was 21 in 2001 and started using E every weekend. I did that for about 3 years straight, then I met a drug dealer and he had meth, which I started smoking that with the E every weekend, eventually everyday with the meth. That went on for about 2 years, then I just got off the meth and kept doing E the next several years, then the E started having Piperazine in it. That was whack so I got off the E. Then about this time I was 27 and smoked meth for the last several years, I'm now 33 and have been clean and free for the last 1.5 years. Now I've been hospitalized twice, and was in rehab once. I've tried so many SSRIs and antipsys that I don't know where to begin.When I got ou t of the hospital a year and a half ago, against medical advice I left on my own, the law there was that if you write down the date and that you want to be checked out you can leave Millwood. Then I was placed on Haldol, then perphenazine, then fanapt, and now I'm on Saphris.

 

[crOOk]

I wouldn't take it, but I used to abuse a year and a half ago and I miss it. I do read all the threads, was just wondering since it never caused me psychosis b4 if it would now. The time line is about 11 years of nonstop drug abuse, the last year and a half I have been sober. I swore I'd never touch drugs again b/c when I took abilify I went nuts, and that was off meth, just abilify. It started when I was in the year 2001 and started messing with E, years before that I was 18 and used pot and drank heavily till I was 21 in 2001 and started using E every weekend. I did that for about 3 years straight, then I met a drug dealer and he had meth, which I started smoking that with the E every weekend, eventually everyday with the meth. That went on for about 2 years, then I just got off the meth and kept doing E the next several years, then the E started having Piperazine in it. That was whack so I got off the E. Then about this time I was 27 and smoked meth for the last several years, I'm now 33 and have been clean and free for the last 1.5 years. Now I've been hospitalized twice, and was in rehab once. I've tried so many SSRIs and antipsys that I don't know where to begin.When I got ou t of the hospital a year and a half ago, against medical advice I left on my own, the law there was that if you write down the date and that you want to be checked out you can leave Millwood. Then I was placed on Haldol, then perphenazine, then fanapt, and now I'm on Saphris.

Well thanks a lot, I apologize if my last response was a bit harsh.

I didn't know you had abused methamphetamine so extensively. This could have very well caused progression of your illness without you seeing it manifest yet. What I am saying is it probably DID cause problems but it wasn't apparent yet.

It seems your full-blown psychosis caused by the ssri's has been treated successfully and left the intrusive thought as the only prominent remaining symptom. Can you please confirm that? It hasn't been clear to me because you've been saying that you have been psychotic the entire time. You do not seem psychotic at all right now and it would take quite a master of deception to hide it, even if these are just forum posts.

I am also still wondering how your intrusive thoughts developed over time, they must've varied in intensity. Have they ever become silent enough for you to not consider them a problem in day to day life? Has one neuroleptic managed them better than another or have they been a constant ever since they appeared?

How long have you been on asenapine and how have the thoughts developed since you were put on it?

You should definitely give your asenapine some time, at least 6 months. If there isn't any improvement in the thoughts whatsoever, it's time to talk to your doctor about switching. Ask him what he thinks about clozapine for treating the intrusive thoughts.

 

[emilseine]

The intrusive thoughts are usually about me hurting my brother. I don't know why I have these thoughts, without psychotherapy I'm not sure I ever will. Maybe it's something about growing up with him when he went psychotic, and I guess from reading everything and common sense I misspoke about being psychotic, it's not that I'm in psychosis, I j ust can't shake the thoughts, usually at night, but they have been getting better lately. Sometimes I feel urges though and feel like I could act on it, although I know I wont.

 

[emilseine]

Also throughout all this I'm tapering off Luvox, off Lorazepam, was taking 2mgs 3 times a day, now I'm taking it 1 in the morning and a half at night, do you know if it's hard to taper off Lorazepam? So far I haven't noticed anything, I'm really anxious anyways...and I don't think the Lorazepam is working anymore anyways. I have been on the Saphris for a month and 3 days so far. The first 3 weeks were amazing, no bad thoughts, then it seemed to wear off and now I struggle day to day. Especially at night. On a side note I have had ED for the last year and a half, it started around the time they put me on depakote, I'm not sure if that's causing it or my weight. I'm 5'9 and weigh 240 lbs, I have type 2 diabetes and my readings are usually from 150-220 generally. I'm on lots of medicine for diabetes. Do you think the erectile dysfunction is that or depakote? I can generate an erection and masturbate, but I'm not sure if I could have sex with a woman, I don't get much contact with women anyways. My doctor doesn't know about the ED, but he knows that it gains apetite, and he said it also can damage your liver and possibly have liver failure, I already liver disease, which was diagnosed when I had a fatty liver.

 

[crOOk]

Wow that's a lot of information there that wasn't clear before.

It definitely shines a different light on things that you are tapering off benzos. Why were you on them? I would say get rid of the habit by any means if there is no indication to take them anymore.

The way you describe how your thoughts developed since you first got on asenapine, it sounds like you have to increase your dosage, talk to your doctor about it.

I know some people get ED off neuroleptics, but it could also just be a psychological thing. I wouldn't stress myself out about it too much, since you can still get it up. The little bad boy is probably gonna do exactly what you want him to do once you are in foreplay with a woman. If it remains a problem, you can still see how you can work on it. You've been through a lot of stress and drugs, so just give it some time I would say.

It sounds like psychotherapy would be great for you since the thoughts are so repetitve and you even are starting to have ideas about what they could relate to.

 

[emilseine]

Thanks Crooks that helped alot, I've been obsessing over it. Also my PDOC tells me not to watch violent movies, but I do it anyways, I love movies and always have, all kinds. Do you believe in the theory "garbage in, garbage out"? As in when you watch violence it effects you and causes u to think about it or to use more bad language b/c of Tarantino? LOL

 

[crOOk]

Thanks Crooks that helped alot, I've been obsessing over it. Also my PDOC tells me not to watch violent movies, but I do it anyways, I love movies and always have, all kinds. Do you believe in the theory "garbage in, garbage out"? As in when you watch violence it effects you and causes u to think about it or to use more bad language b/c of Tarantino? LOL

I'm glad it did.

Well I've watched Poltergeist at the age of 6 and Evil Dead at the age of 10. I am completely insensitive to violence in movies. I am however a very peaceful person and witnessing actual (non-fictional) injustice can easily make me cry.

BUT I don't know about intrusive thoughts and he might have a very good point. This is something you should observe, there might even be some information on it out there somewhere.

I would recommend asking him on what basis he asks you to stop watching movies. If it's just a personal hunch, ignore him. If he says it has been his experience with patients, take it with a grain of salt. If he can send you a link to a peer-reviewed article on this topic, read that and make your own decision.

@Shrooms00087
Your inbox is full, just like I saw it coming lol.

 

[emilseine]

One more thing, my erection, although I can get erect, I can't flex the penis like I used to. I can't move it back and forth and get it really hard, so how would I be able to make passionate sex to a female?