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The Official EADD Paedo Discussion Thread v3 -Nonce-tastic

StoneHappyMonday said:
Not comparing a drug user to a paedo. We're defining 'monster'. Monsters come in all shapes and sizes. Hitler said Jews were monsters. Queers were monsters. Drug users....
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Human perception aside - there is a universal law of what is justifiable behaviour and what isn't (Some are more aware of what that is exactly). Peadophile's are universally wrong in what they do (Cannot be justified), the rest of your monsters are creations from individual perceptions.
 
ColtDan said:
Less economical drain, zero chance of re-offending, if a dog bites somebody it gets put down...
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Leaving aside the somewhat bizarre veterinary connection (dogs are a rather different matter to people however good it may sound as a soundbite) it is simply a matter of practicality for you then? Fair enough. I can argue that there is indeed not a great deal of opportunity to reoffend once you're dead. Economic drain is debatable as the sheer length and number of court cases involved in any capital punishment system that is terrifyingly dodgy probably costs more than it would to keep somebody locked up for life anyway (lawyers are expensive - lawyers working on a case for 20-odd years-worth of appeals and retrials and so on are very expensive). Are you not even slightly concerned about miscarriages of justice though? Was a fella who had been on death row for 30 years who got released after being completely exonerated just recently. When we had capital punishment here there were plenty of cases where the conviction was highly suspect and that will always be the case. The usual reply to this is "only kill them if it's 100% sure they did it" but that is not an argument cos by definition if you are convicted you are 100% legally guilty of that crime until/unless it's overturned at a later date. Are you really meaning that, for example, everybody convicted of murder should be hung (or whatever method you favour)?

ColtDan said:
Of course not... How can a drug user even be compared to a peado?.... Fuck societys fucked up backwards media properganda brainwashed views, absolute horseshit
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Laws can change. Drug users are executed in a number of countries so it's not completely unthinkable that such thing could happen. There are people in this country who would disagree with you completely and say that drug users absolutely should be hanged - we've all heard it said I'm sure.
 
ColtDan said:
Just because somebody breaks the law how does that automatically make them as a monster?
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It's not me saying this Dan. Does being a Jew automatically make you a monster? Hitler said so. Ergo, an autocratic despot could decide, because the rule of law is paramount, that lawbreakers like you, ones who refuse to see their 'sense', are the ultimate threat. A monster that could bring down society. Off with your head. That's what you are in danger of supporting with your line on justice.

Don't you rip the shit out of the Taliban because they flog people who listen to music? Well the Taliban have decided people who listen to music are monsters. To be flogged. You're going down that road with your argument of exterminating monsters. Because WHO DECIDES WHO THE MONSTERS ARE?
 
raas_2012 said:
Human perception aside - there is a universal law of what is justifiable behaviour and what isn't (Some are more aware of what that is exactly). Peadophile's are universally wrong in what they do (Cannot be justified), the rest of your monsters are creations from individual perceptions.
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What bollocks. We were legally raping kids of 9 years old in the time of Shakespeare. Where is this universal law written down Raas? And don't say the fucking Bible.
 
raas_2012 said:
The malice is more justifiable if someone molested your child, is what I'm saying. No I don't believe in hating or hanging anyone, even peado's. Just a recognition of what they are - dissociation of them until their miserable deaths. (Why I suggested jail and spoke out against capital punishment)
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You seem to have backtracked a bit. - you said you had no sympathy, but you should love them (i'm not mocking christian views here - i agree with it) - do you think the prison chaplin shuold have no sympathy too? I love everyone, like you should as a christian (my shorthand for my religion/morality is there's only one soul which we all share so there's no point hating yourself (it's not a literal belief)). There but for the grace of god and all that... (i don't believe in inhernet evil though...)

Do you think jesus would have turned paedophiles away?
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
It's not me saying this Dan. Does being a Jew automatically make you a monster? Hitler said so. Ergo, an autocratic despot could decide, because the rule of law is paramount, that lawbreakers like you, ones who refuse to see their 'sense', are the ultimate threat. A monster that could bring down society. Off with your head. That's what you are in danger of supporting with your line on justice.

Don't you rip the shit out of the Taliban because they flog people who listen to music? Well the Taliban have decided people who listen to music are monsters. To be flogged. You're going down that road with your argument of exterminating monsters. Because WHO DECIDES WHO THE MONSTERS ARE?
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Yeah good point. and the people in power and media blatantly decide who the monsters are. then give it time people are so brainwashed that even if it was left up to them to decide who the monsters are theyd say the same
 
raas_2012 said:
It's a matter of responsibility. If you have diminished responsibility (due to mental illness) obviously you can't be blamed for you actions.

There is a recognition of what is right and what our commitments as humans should be. Those who choose not to be mindful of this and fall victim to shocking behaviour (like child molesting) are cold and dangerous people. The intentions are wrong. I generally agree with you on how they should be handled however and accept they're still humans. Just not very good ones.
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Agreed on the first bit but not quite following you on the latter part. I was asking about changing ideas of what is right and wrong. For example, the age of consent hasn't always been 16. There hasn't always been one at all but it was set at 12 for a long time in the UK (and I vaguely recall it being lower at some point even further back but could be mistaken as ever). An adult having sex with a 12yo now would be considered a paedophile by probably the vast majority of people now and most would say that that person was doing something wrong. Go back a while (not even all that long in the grand scheme) and same person doing that same thing would not be seen as doing anything wrong in the eyes of the law and presumably by a fair proportion of people. What would that person "know in his heart" back then given he is having sex with a very young person but neither law nor society (hard to be sure quite how much of society but enough that it was legal - we have kings who married girls that age). If people knew it was wrong "in their heart" why was it acceptable and legal? Why would people offer their daughters for marriage at that age?
 
Debates like this are partly why i like this place, interesting insight stuff
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
What bollocks. We were legally raping kids of 9 years old in the time of Shakespeare. Where is this universal law written down Raas? And don't say the fucking Bible.
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There is a universal law of what is right or wrong, just like there is a law of physics, a law of attraction, a law of decimal equations etc. It's above human perception - which you don't seem to understand - (judging from your post) you think a matter of right and wrong ends in human depiction.

Humans do their best to depict these laws, a lot fail. A lot disagree. But their is an essential truth to right and wrong, whether it's been discovered or not, or how well the current law represents it.

I'd say the ones who believe in raping 9 year olds aren't very good at understanding it.

Shambles said:
I was asking about changing ideas of what is right and wrong. For example, the age of consent hasn't always been 16. There hasn't always been one at all but it was set at 12 for a long time in the UK (and I vaguely recall it being lower at some point even further back but could be mistaken as ever). An adult having sex with a 12yo now would be considered a paedophile by probably the vast majority of people now and most would say that that person was doing something wrong
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Again, a universal law surpasses a human law. For instance, the law currently says it's ok to have sex with as many 16 year old girls as I like. Be a real man-whore. I choose not to however, because in my heart I feel it is not right. It is not true to a universal law.

(I could be wrong with my perception of right and wrong - feel free to disagree - matter of opinion, fallible human perception and all that)

Virtual said:
You seem to have backtracked a bit. - you said you had no sympathy, but you should love them (i'm not mocking christian views here - i agree with it) - do you think the prison chaplin shuold have no sympathy too? I love everyone, like you should as a christian (my shorthand for my religion/morality is there's only one soul which we all share so there's no point hating yourself (it's not a literal belief)). There but for the grace of god and all that... (i don't believe in inhernet evil though...)

Do you think jesus would have turned paedophiles away?
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Er, I don't want to get side tracked by religion. It's a bit more complicated coz we're meant to love all people, whereas God sends them to hell. I'd have to expound quite a bit on this but think it would be more suited to the theo thread. I have no sympathy no, I see them as dangerous people who neglect what is right.
 
raas_2012 said:
Er, I don't want to get side tracked by religion. It's a bit more complicated coz we're meant to love all people, whereas God sends them to hell. I'd have to expound quite a bit on this but think it would be more suited to the theo thread. I have no sympathy no, I see them as dangerous people who neglect what is right.
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Cool Raas - see you there (but i think you're not really getting jesus ;) (does jesus even mention hell?))
 
raas_2012 said:
I'd say the ones who believe in raping 9 year olds aren't very good at understanding it.
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Or you could just say they are the population of the UK in the seventeenth century. Because that was the law then.

Morals are not science. Laws are culturally specific to fit in with the dominant culture (the rulers) of any particular time. There is no 'universal law'.
 
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