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tianeptine as a mood enhancer while on subutex/opiate tolerant

ebola? said:
serotonin2a's essentially correct about this: binding affinity and efficacy are only part of the picture, pharmacokinetics looming large in particular.* However, I'm seeing tianeptine's binding as being just one order of magnitude weaker than oxycodone's, the latter being a pretty strong opioid...so it still seems plausible that tianeptine functions as a week opioid (but that this activity could still plausibly prove key in its subjective effects).

*in some sense, both binding affinity and efficacy are abstractions from qualitatively unique interactions between ligand and active site, resulting change in receptor geometry, and following signaling cascade, reducing such processes to singular quantitative indicators.

ebola
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You're right that it's probably a safe bet that tianeptine isn't as strong an opioid as oxycodone. But pinpoint said that tianeptine couldn't cause an opioid high, and I don't think the binding data implies anything of the sort. Even weak opioids like pentazocine and meperidine can cause an opioid effects. More importantly, tianeptine has reportedly been abused for it's purported opioid effects and seems to relieve opioid withdrawal.
 
serotonin2A said:
You're right that it's probably a safe bet that tianeptine isn't as strong an opioid as oxycodone. But pinpoint said that tianeptine couldn't cause an opioid high, and I don't think the binding data implies anything of the sort. Even weak opioids like pentazocine and meperidine can cause an opioid effects. More importantly, tianeptine has reportedly been abused for it's purported opioid effects and seems to relieve opioid withdrawal.
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Tianeptine does most definately alleviate opioid WD symptoms. 300mg IV'd gave me a rush while I had a moderate heroin habit. This was powder, not Coaxil/Stablon pills.
 
5ht2a said:
You're right that it's probably a safe bet that tianeptine isn't as strong an opioid as oxycodone. But pinpoint said that tianeptine couldn't cause an opioid high, and I don't think the binding data implies anything of the sort. Even weak opioids like pentazocine and meperidine can cause an opioid effects.
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heh, this was precisely the point I was trying to make; sorry if I was unclear.

ebola
 
I've been trying 12mg doses here and there the last few days, and it definitely has an effect. I am currently tapering from 6mg to 4mg suboxone/day. I'm pretty sure it is helping.
 
How does that affinity rank it among other weak opioids?


I find it interesting that it's most often compared to oxycodone. I imagine that's because of its short half life, generally rapid acting, short duration drugs are the most euphoric, and this certainly falls in that category. I imagine most people who aren't getting much out of it just aren't taking enough.


I ordered 10g to substitute for suboxone when I run out. I was thinking I'd start at 25mg 3x a day and move up to 100 2x over 3-5 days as side effects appear or satiation of cravings occurs.
 
Hammilton said:
How does that affinity rank it among other weak opioids?


I find it interesting that it's most often compared to oxycodone. I imagine that's because of its short half life, generally rapid acting, short duration drugs are the most euphoric, and this certainly falls in that category. I imagine most people who aren't getting much out of it just aren't taking enough.


I ordered 10g to substitute for suboxone when I run out. I was thinking I'd start at 25mg 3x a day and move up to 100 2x over 3-5 days as side effects appear or satiation of cravings occurs.
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I've taken doses past 200mgs, to the point that I started to get physically sick and not once came close to achieving anything on par with oxy. The high is very short lasting and lacking in depth, reminds me of fentanyl... it always feels like somethings missing. It also seems to build tolerance very rapidly. After maybe the first 5 doses It became essentially worthless as a recreational drug. I do however stick to rectal and oral dosing, you couldn't pay me to stick this stuff in my veins. All in all after digging into two batches from different vendors I found tianeptine very mediocre.
 
I didn't mean that those who found its effects unlike oxy weren't taking enough, but those who had no effects weren't. We can all disagree over qualitative effects, but whether it produces opioid effects or not isn't in argument.

As someone who isn't prescribed enough suboxone, I run out often. I was thinking of taking it 3x daily at 100mg per dose to block withdrawal. Will that do the trick? Was planning to start with a 25mg dose 3x daily and going up until I stopped feeling sick.
 
Hammilton: That's crazy! It seems most Sub docs are all-too-eager to over-prescribe the stuff. Never heard of a patient not getting enough. What's your script, if you don't mind me asking?

As for the topic here, anyone tried this yet? Bupe and tianeptine concurrently? Given the inexplicable effectiveness of tramadol while on Subs, I'm hoping we've got another such compound on our hands.

edit: I hadn't realized this thread was in N&P; I came across it through a Google search and had assumed from the contents that it was in BDD. I'm sorry if my post isn't N&P-appropriate.
 
Just 2mg a day. At 4mg a day my cravings are eliminated, that's what I was on for years before my previous doc quit doing it. Went to the new doc and he said he only prescribes 2mg. So if I were smart I'd just take 2mg every day, but I'm always craving then. Take 4mg and I'm fine. So then I run out two weeks early and scrape by. Fortunately I can usually find some, but I'd like not to need to find any, that's where Tianeptine comes in, I hope, anyway.

I've got 1 2mg dose left for tonight and then I'll start taking tianeptine this weekend. Maybe I should start lower doses now to see if I'll tolerate it and not die.
 
That is nuts. I'm all for docs prescribing less bupe but that is obviously too little for most people. I'm Rxed 8mg but only take 4 and still fight cravings every day. It sucks and I'm starting to think I'd be better off without anything tickling those receptors.

Anyway, definitely let us know how your experiments with the tianeptine go this weekend. Good luck, hope it's effective for you.
 
So does Tianeptine work while on Suboxone/Subutex (aka Buprenorphine) ??? Also would it be a good supplement to add to a detox kit while coming off Subs?
 
It's not really a supplement, it's a drug.

I'm using it to come off suboxone right now. Last night was three days without subs, and 200mg last night allowed me to sleep like a baby. When it first kicked in it felt very oxy like, but that feeling wore off over an hour. I took another 140mg when withdrawal started appearing again in the morning and it was gone very quickly. I'm still a little itchy from it. It's hard for me to see this being prescribed in 12.5mg doses, as at over 10x that I'm still entirely side effect free. This stuff feels more benign than anything I've ever taken. A tiny line of coke feels more threatening. Actually made me excited to go to work today.

I'm planning on using ~100mg 2x a day as necessary to hold off withdrawal, along with a double dose at bedtime, so 100mg in the morning, one during work if needed and then again at bed, just until I can get some subs.
 
Hammilton said:
It's not really a supplement, it's a drug.

I'm using it to come off suboxone right now. Last night was three days without subs, and 200mg last night allowed me to sleep like a baby. When it first kicked in it felt very oxy like, but that feeling wore off over an hour. I took another 140mg when withdrawal started appearing again in the morning and it was gone very quickly. I'm still a little itchy from it. It's hard for me to see this being prescribed in 12.5mg doses, as at over 10x that I'm still entirely side effect free. This stuff feels more benign than anything I've ever taken. A tiny line of coke feels more threatening. Actually made me excited to go to work today.

I'm planning on using ~100mg 2x a day as necessary to hold off withdrawal, along with a double dose at bedtime, so 100mg in the morning, one during work if needed and then again at bed, just until I can get some subs.
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That's good to hear, I am sure Tianeptine is a great thing to use during sub w/d's... Has anyone else tried it while on sub??? Besides the one post by one guy in this thread saying it helped him wean down or whatever.. And if so would you need to take around a 200mg dose to get effects... maybe shall try it soon and see if it works.. It seems like this thread needs to get back on track "Will Tianeptine work/have effects while taking Subs" .
 
Hi Tryptmite. I am on 50mg of Percocet a day and would like to cut down to 30mg. YOU say that Tianeptine eliminates WD symptoms Completely? I just want to make sure I understand before I buy Tianeptine and start to cut back my Percocet. Thanks. Peace Always. Bartman57
 
Hey Plasticity do you think it would work for tapering off or reducing opiates? I want to cut down using Percocet. I use 50mg daily. Thanks. Peace.
 
What did I do worth thanking me for?

I'm now seven days since my last 2mg of suboxone. Well, subutex, actually. Absolutely no withdrawal. It took me a while to get my dose worked out, but 150mg 2x a day, and 200-240mg gets me very high. I tried 240mg tonight, and in 10 minutes I was coming up quickly. I'm not going to dose this high again, it's too much for me, but it does feel like oxy to me. The only problem is that it is extremely short lived, 1.5hrs is about it. It's no good as a recreational drug, imho. Too short lived and not potent enough.

However, for a quick taper, or for something to tide you over for a couple days when you're out, it's probably a decent option. Long term use would be ridiculous, once tolerance would set in you'd quickly be up to taking multiple grams a day. Even with my dosing scheme I'm over a half gram a day. If you were getting high on it 3x a day, instead of just staying well, you could easily get to 1000mg doses. And actually, I could see someone using it many times per day due to the short duration.

I never believed all the early reporting about how people in Russia were getting a heroin-like high from Coaxil, I thought it was some other sedative mode of activity. I'm glad I was wrong.
 
yes, it will work for tapering off other opioids, but does have its own withdrawal

Bartman57 said:
Hey Plasticity do you think it would work for tapering off or reducing opiates? I want to cut down using Percocet. I use 50mg daily. Thanks. Peace.
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Hammilton said:
What did I do worth thanking me for?

I'm now seven days since my last 2mg of suboxone. Well, subutex, actually. Absolutely no withdrawal. It took me a while to get my dose worked out, but 150mg 2x a day, and 200-240mg gets me very high. I tried 240mg tonight, and in 10 minutes I was coming up quickly. I'm not going to dose this high again, it's too much for me, but it does feel like oxy to me. The only problem is that it is extremely short lived, 1.5hrs is about it.

If you were getting high on it 3x a day, instead of just staying well, you could easily get to 1000mg doses. And actually, I could see someone using it many times per day due to the short duration.
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Indeed, when I've lost or skipped methadone take homes I was able to feel totally comfortable on it for up to 48 hours. Better at times (using ~1g/day). When using in the morning before dosing, it gets me feeling well and doing jumping jacks rather than having to drag myself to the clinic.

HOWEVER, it has extreme withdrawal when you get to high doses (near 1/4 - 1g per day) that last several days. At one point I was unable to see straight for about 1 day, meaning I couldn't move around much on foot without falling. Other opioids did not resolve this, which is something of a paradox, since it entirely resolves opioid withdrawal.

I plan to use it with a loperamide taper (the two together are a good solution to lack of opioids when dependent) and then the most painless tianeptine taper I can manage over a relatively short duration after having been off methadone a few weeks. Don't imagine it will be smooth seas, but not the 6-week hell of methadone cold turkey or year-long taper suggested by clinic.

Reports from most sources suggest it will stop the withdrawal from any commonly used opioid
 
I have been on subutex for 8 years with a starting dose of 36+mg/day, and down to 8mg/day currently with plans to continue tapering dose. I found this board searching for information regarding any contraindications for tianeptine & subutex. I do not plan on using tianeptine recreationally, but more for anxiolytic properties. I will keep you posted on how they work together with a higher dose buprenorphine with no withdrawl symptoms.
 
Wordsm11th said:
I just want to say: I was quite amazed with this compound and felt compelled to create an account here to respond. I have been slowwwwwwwly tapering off Subs for over a year now [at 0.25mg/day] ... so figured I may as well try Tianeptine[....]200mg, which coincidentally happened to be around an hour after I dosed my Sub. I must say, I felt as if I had blown ~15mg of oxycodone after NEVER having taken Subs. The Buprenorphine/Nalaxone seems to have absolutely no effect in blocking whichever receptors the Tianeptine makes sweet receptor love to.[...])
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Thank you for sharing. No offense (truly, I mean that) but, to be honest, I would bet my arms or legs to donuts that a Buprenorphine/Naloxone dose that low wouldn't have blocking activity against much of anything.

I've taken subox/subutex/methadone/opiod agonists at all imsginable dosages since subox became available in America ca. 2000 (?) and b4 that in other countries (seemed OTC in Latin America at 0.1mg × 40 count) along with many US -rx-only partnets in self chemistry.

Unless you have an epi/genetic mutation making you at least 8-20 x times more susceptible than typical humans , there's close to zero chance it would matter if you had 0 bupe in you or .25, due it's asymptotic floor and ceiling levels. Don't get me wrong, I'm interested, since I've been taking Tian with Methadone or Suboxone (not sinultaneously, lol!) for... I don't know... a year give or take. Since I have trouble under 0.5-1mg Subx Ive just gone full megadone, and I do notice the Tia works stronger the further i am from dosing. I've even saved up emergency 80mg takehomes, up to three in a row, by sticking to 1g Tia every 4-6 hours. FWIW.
 
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