tianeptine as a mood enhancer while on subutex/opiate tolerant

[adder]

The affinity of tianeptine at MOP receptors isn't mind-blowing, it's hard to compare it to weak opioids though as most of them rely on metabolites that have a much higher affinity anyway.

Wasn't it possible to replicate effects caused by classic morphine-like opioids by some serotonin-related mechanism? I read it long time ago in a thread here on BL. Perhaps tianeptine brings about similar subjective effects through a different mechanism that happens to at least partially cause the same downstream effects. I bet it would be possible if we only knew exactly how, e.g. cause effects at a different level of the downstream process.

 

[The Monkey Mantra]

Just to add another data point here: I definitely feel strong opioid effects from higher doses of tianeptine, and even get an uncomfortable, anxious crash with a desire to redose, like I would from something along the lines of a fentanyl analog. I get no such feelings from kratom, or even oxycodone. For me, I had to get rid of the stuff because it was so bad when the crash hit and so good when it started.

I've got a lot of experience with opioids as a chronic pain patient. When I tried Tianeptine at normal doses (12.5 mg tid) eight years ago, I had no such problems, but do remember a couple times when I'd take three at a time and go, "Wow, I feel pretty good!". We didn't have all the MOR data back then, but now, it's all pretty obvious.

I'd personally never touch it again.

 

[romealone]

I just want to chime in and state that though this is admittedly purely subjective, I am 100% certain that tianeptine, taken at sufficient doses acts every bit as a full agonist, fully capable of substituting for traditional mu agonists. The recent literature documenting tianeptine as a mu agonist supports this as well.

To give an idea of its effectiveness, suffice to say that when not taking my standard prescribed opioid (very high dose oxymorphone), I have found that where 80mg of oxycodone taken 3 times a day still leaves me with some minor discomfort, 200mg of tianeptine completely abolishes any trace of withdrawal....the caveat being that within 3 hrs max, WD rapidly begins.

In situations where I've found myself out of oxymorphone, having access to both 240mg of oxycodone to get me through the day and a gram or 2 of tianeptine, I would choose the tianeptine every time to ameliorate the opana withdrawal. For a drug most in the US have never heard of, I consider this to be perhaps the most significant discovery as of late with regards to tools useful in opioid withdrawal.

Now what information I would love to have, as someone else has asked in this thread, is, how will tianeptine play with suboxone. Given my near certainty that tianeptine exerts it's incredible WD alleviating abilities via its clear mu agonism, I have to believe the suboxone would fully block tianeptine.

But even more pressing is the question of the possibility of suboxone causing precipitated WD w someone who is opioid dependent and currently maintaining on tianeptine. For example, say I were to switch from my high dose opana to 200mg tianeptine taken every 3 hrs to stave off withdrawal. If after a week of this regimen I decide to switch to suboxone, is it likely to cause precip WD?
Again, based on my assumption that tianeptine abolishes opioid WD due solely (or at least overwhelminglym so) to its mu agonism, I would hypothesize that suboxone would be liable to creat precip WD just as it would if one were maintaining on any other short acting full agonist with lower affinity. However, given that WD sets in pretty aggressively at then3-4 hr mark, I would think one could avoid PW by waiting a mere 4 hours after last dose of tianeptine.

So...has anyone used tianeptine while on bupe, and if so, what were the results (the tianeptine dose would have to be at least 150 mg in anyone opioid tolerant for this to yield valid results.
AND-has anyone opioid dependent who was maintaining on tianeptine tried switching over to bupe, and if so, what occurred?

Extraordinarily interesting drug. Begs the question of the possibility of the existence of, or potential development of a related chemical with much longer duration. Such a drug would be absolute game changer in terms of opioid replacement therapy.

Lastly-for the sake of HR..yes IV tianeptine produces quite the opioid rush at 200mg and up in opioid tolerant individuals and even more interesting, repeat dosing, even after a interval of 10 minute does not seem to reduce this rush. This is something I've never seen in any opioid. HOWEVER this chemical is the quickest way to trash your veins that I've ever encountered. And no it's not simply the Russians injecting the pills that developw problems- pure tianeptine powder is fully capable of trashing your veins in a weeks time. Whether adjusting th pH could mitigate this I am unsure of, but just...don't.

 

[bios]

Hi guys,

I have experience that would be beneficial for this thread. Before getting opiate addicted and getting on Suboxone, I was using Tianeptine recreationaly at 12.5mg pils x 10 or 15 which makes 125 - 175 mgs of Tianeptine, it gave me strong euphoric effect compared to low dose of MDMA x Heroin. I tought this is the best drug I have ever tried.

Since starting Suboxone (now 9 months on), I am still prescribed Tianeptine and sometimes trying to repeat euphoric experience by taking around 150mg, but it has no effect close to what It used to have before starting Suboxone. Sometimes I feel better mood, but Naloxone in Subs is greatly dimishing Tianeptine effects and feel almost no euphoria. I think that this is what original poster and many more people of this thread were asking...
Btw in Slovakia, doctors and most patients have no clue, that It could be used recreationally... which is good, so It does not get banned soon. I hope.

I am 100 percent sure Tianeptine /Coaxil in my country/ has opioid affinity and using Suboxone and Coaxil together can mess little bit with mu receptors, because I feel less euphoria from both, but cant help to stop using them together.. Take care!

 

[Whendawhipcomesdwn]

Hi guys. My first post. I basically made an account so I could post this after a while of very educational reading.

I heard about this drug yesterday. The site I ordered from went out of there way to discern that I had ordered the sulfate form.

This spurred further research and from what I found, the sulfate is much longer acting and doesnt require a re-dose. The top result on google only carries the sodium.

However, since one of you posted that they would love to see a longer-acting version I wanted to make it known, if not already that a longer acting version now exists as a sulfate..


Hope this helps someone, as Ive noticed 80% of the posts,on this forum seem to have the intent of helping.. Thats what made me join anyway.


Hope everyone is having a good, safe weekend.

 

[jayjay12]

Edit: I updated my post. IV TIAN BAD = sent me to the E.R. in 3 weeks w/ 2 different complications. Had done I've drugs 8 years w/o a complication. IV TIAN BAD, no matter which way you prepare it, even dilluting down the solution and using a huge 5 cc rig to negate the basic ph, the polarity's still going to be bad.

I can confirm that Tianeptine (sodium, the common powder) has fully quelled my 1 1/2 year 10 grams a dayish kratom habit w/d symptoms. I also am an I.V. drug user and know the only safe way to I.V. tianeptine is to not go over 93 mg's per 1 cc, or else your solution becomes to viscous (I know polarities and isotonics are involved in its solulation, and if you try and make too strong a concentration it does indeed become a) glue like b) caustic to veins. It does not hurt to shoot but it is definitely for people w/ 5+ years I.V. experience because it's not one you want to miss. Ever. Reports of necrosis and advanced complications are mainly linked w/ silica gel in stablon tablets. That being said this shit will screw up your veins, and if not for the fact that I already had serious vein damage anyway, I wouldn't have gone for it.

The upside: Tolerance doesn't build that fast, at least coming from a low opiod habit like the kratom one I described. It's something you can binge / use to quiet something else for about a week max. And when 2-3 cc's worth of solution are I.V'd correctly it does induce a dilaudid like rush. And that's in someone who can fire 2 8 mgs dil's with no tolerance to say of (except for a decade of natural/mental tolerance build up/receptor damage) and not feel as high from 16 mgs IV dilaudid than i would 200 mgs Tianept. But it has a slightly, just ever so slightly "different" rush and feel than Dil. Essentially for me it was like taking a fresh drug in its own class I had never been exposed to. Although I know more about the extreme side of it's use because I'm pretty sure I was I'v'ing the first day. I could see how for someone not on the other side of quitting, someone early in their addiction, could get a hold of this and really fuck their shit up. Even abusing it orally would be unwise. Think like those crazy phenibut habits. Well the reason you find reports of people abusing tianept. like me is because for us, it seems to work, like every time. I've mixed it w/ coke and found it be amazing, basically a cheap ghetto speed ball if you will (w/ one half being legal and cheap). I mean, I'm a guy whos had serious heroin habits/ binges, I could get higher for 50 cents worth of tianept than 50 dollars of my citys street dope. But it's a novelty thing in those doses, not a long term replacement / subsistute.

Sub + Tian. I took a low dose of my one 8 mg sub im using for the detox from kratom/ tianept. about 3 days ago i took 2-3 mgs of sub/nalax (btw people in case u didnt already know nalax is non active, look it up), this is like 2 days into my tianept switch from Kratom. No interference no percepitated w/d. that being said i hadn't taken any sub in weeks and weeks so I would not use that report as evidence the combo is "ok".

Also as people say, potential for a terrible large habit from say, going through more than 10 grams in 2 weeks would just get expontially worse. The short Half life means frequent re-dosing, IV coke like pin pricking, but you're clear headed enough to not hurt yourself like IV coke. I can update to let everyone know what happens after a roughly 12-16 day 5 gram binge.

UPDATE: Tian IV trashes your vein no matter which way you do it. 2-3 weeks and I had cellulitis and a supificial bloodclot. First drug to send me to the E.r. and it did in 3 weeks. again IV TIAN BAD.

If anyone is considering IV'ng this. AND I CANT TALK YOU OUT OF IT, even after reading the sentences above this, send me a pm and I will send very important, explicit directions, because I think I've got it down on multiple fronts as far as HR. (still harmful as fuck, but pm me if you want HR, HR is HR, all HR is good.)

 

[b00mh34d5h0t]

Iv question

I can confirm that Tianeptine (sodium, the common powder) has fully quelled my 1 1/2 year 10 grams a dayish kratom habit w/d symptoms. I also am an I.V. drug user and know the only safe way to I.V. tianeptine is to not go over 93 mg's per 1 cc, or else your solution becomes to viscous (I know polarities and isotonics are involved in its solulation, and if you try and make too strong a concentration it does indeed become a) glue like b) caustic to veins. It does not hurt to shoot but it is definitely for people w/ 5+ years I.V. experience because it's not one you want to miss. Ever. Reports of necrosis and advanced complications are mainly linked w/ silica gel in stablon tablets. That being said this shit will screw up your veins, and if not for the fact that I already had serious vein damage anyway, I wouldn't have gone for it.

The upside: Tolerance doesn't build that fast, at least coming from a low opiod habit like the kratom one I described. It's something you can binge / use to quiet something else for about a week max. And when 2-3 cc's worth of solution are I.V'd correctly it does induce a dilaudid like rush. And that's in someone who can fire 2 8 mgs dil's with no tolerance to say of (except for a decade of natural/mental tolerance build up/receptor damage) and not feel as high from 16 mgs IV dilaudid than i would 200 mgs Tianept. But it has a slightly, just ever so slightly "different" rush and feel than Dil. Essentially for me it was like taking a fresh drug in its own class I had never been exposed to. Although I know more about the extreme side of it's use because I'm pretty sure I was I'v'ing the first day. I could see how for someone not on the other side of quitting, someone early in their addiction, could get a hold of this and really fuck their shit up. Even abusing it orally would be unwise. Think like those crazy phenibut habits. Well the reason you find reports of people abusing tianept. like me is because for us, it seems to work, like every time. I've mixed it w/ coke and found it be amazing, basically a cheap ghetto speed ball if you will (w/ one half being legal and cheap). I mean, I'm a guy who's been to Ho Chi Min city and had serious heroin habits/ binges, I could get higher for 50 cents worth of tianept than 50 dollars of my citys street dope. But it's a novelty thing in those doses, not a long term replacement / subsistute.

Sub + Tian. I took a low dose of my one 8 mg sub im using for the detox from kratom/ tianept. about 3 days ago i took 2-3 mgs of sub/nalax (btw people in case u didnt already know nalax is non active, look it up), this is like 2 days into my tianept switch from Kratom. No interference no percepitated w/d. that being said i hadn't taken any sub in weeks and weeks so I would not use that report as evidence the combo is "ok".

Also as people say, potential for a terrible large habit from say, going through more than 10 grams in 2 weeks would just get expontially worse. The short Half life means frequent re-dosing, IV coke like pin pricking, but you're clear headed enough to not hurt yourself like IV coke. I can update to let everyone know what happens after a roughly 12-16 day 5 gram binge.

If anyone is considering IV'ng this send me a pm and I will send very important, explicit directions, because I think I've got it down on multiple fronts as far as HR. (still harmful as fuck, but pm me if you want HR, HR is HR, all HR is good.)

Hey im new here cant figure out how to pm you but was interested on how to properly iv tianeptine

 

[jayjay12]

Yea, talking about Tian I.V. is kind of a point of contention with me....Like it's the only drug to send me to the hospital ever, and it did it in less than a month with 2 different I.v complications that could have only been tian at the time. So I almost deleted my post on it, but then when I went to do that someone had asked a question. and I realized the whole point of blue light and HR is people are going to do what they're going to do, so you might as well arm them with knowledge. So yea the knowledge is that I.V. tian screws your veins up no matter how you do it, even w/ a watered down 3 or 5cc rig the polarity of the fluid isn't going to be right.

To answer about tian and sub: I gave a shot of about 150 mgs to a friend who is on a quite low dose of sub, between 1-2 mgs a day, shot was for sure not a miss. (everyone should keep in note tian is not one to miss with) and the reseaults: He felt NOTHING.

and more news: A freind of mine's oral tianeptine habit got out of control: a freind gave him I think either 2 or mgs sub, this is literally like right after hes taken tian, and the sub took about 30 minutes to completely kick all that tian off the receptors and those buprenorphine guys did their lovely lovely thing just as normal. No percipitated W/d, however length of subjects Tian habit was only a month, but in excess of a gram a day. So, from this report, Sub taken directly after tian, the buprenorphine has such high affinity i've found it always just kicks off weaker agonists, i.e. I've done the same with a kratom habit.

 

[b00mh34d5h0t]

I think i accidentally deleted my last message but thanks for all the info you talked me out of it for now lol but i too had a pretty long term kratom habit than ended up with me going back to H now im tapering off subs with benzos and i tried oral tianeptine but the effect was short lived as others have mentioned im only down to like 1mg sub a day but I'm kindof a pussy when it comes to wd you think itd be worth oral tian to taper all the way down or should i switch back and forth for a few more days im also afraid of precip wd

 

[b00mh34d5h0t]

I think i accidentally deleted my last message but thanks for all the info you talked me out of it for now lol but i too had a pretty long term kratom habit than ended up with me going back to H now im tapering off subs with benzos and i tried oral tianeptine but the effect was short lived as others have mentioned im only down to like 1mg sub a day but I'm kindof a pussy when it comes to wd you think itd be worth oral tian to taper all the way down or should i switch back and forth for a few more days im also afraid of precip wd

Yea, talking about Tian I.V. is kind of a point of contention with me....Like it's the only drug to send me to the hospital ever, and it did it in less than a month with 2 different I.v complications that could have only been tian at the time. So I almost deleted my post on it, but then when I went to do that someone had asked a question. and I realized the whole point of blue light and HR is people are going to do what they're going to do, so you might as well arm them with knowledge. So yea the knowledge is that I.V. tian screws your veins up no matter how you do it, even w/ a watered down 3 or 5cc rig the polarity of the fluid isn't going to be right.

To answer about tian and sub: I gave a shot of about 150 mgs to a friend who is on a quite low dose of sub, between 1-2 mgs a day, shot was for sure not a miss. (everyone should keep in note tian is not one to miss with) and the reseaults: He felt NOTHING.

and more news: A freind of mine's oral tianeptine habit got out of control: a freind gave him I think either 2 or mgs sub, this is literally like right after hes taken tian, and the sub took about 30 minutes to completely kick all that tian off the receptors and those buprenorphine guys did their lovely lovely thing just as normal. No percipitated W/d, however length of subjects Tian habit was only a month, but in excess of a gram a day. So, from this report, Sub taken directly after tian, the buprenorphine has such high affinity i've found it always just kicks off weaker agonists, i.e. I've done the same with a kratom habit.

Also i still have kratom at my disposal but i dont want to get stuck on that shit again and as far as the subs ive only been on them for a month and im down to about 1mg a day so any advice on that would be really helpful I'm trying to quit everything but the systems working against me so im on my own

 

[asecin]

how bad are those kratom wd's anyway? cant be as bad or prolonged wd as heroin or other synthetic opiates

 

[asecin]

this short acting effect from tianeptine pisses me off. hence why dosing too high regularly is a problem. do you think if you take very little bit of tianeptine mixed with cimetidine will pronounce the positive effect for longer without the need for redosing and absence of what you described as nasty side effects?

yikes on second note i read about cimetidine it looks like a nasty drug. im still actively seeking anything to potentiate low dose tianeptine, any clues and recommendations highly appreciated!

 

[vortech]

After thoroughly experiencing tianeptine while not on suboxone or other opiate, and then getting back on the sub bus (ha that's a palindrome) and trying tianeptine again I can say with certainty in my case that tianeptine has nearly zero positive effects while on suboxone. Maybe there is some effect at very high dose like 70-100mg but it's a complete waste of material. Tianeptine has much more value after jumping off suboxone.

 

[asecin]

i think we all figured out this long ago that suboxies block any opiatic effect of any drug and now you are just realizing it....

im more interested in what potentiates tianeptine even more, better with less dose rather than what blocks it or minimizes its effect!

 

[vortech]

i think we all figured out this long ago that suboxies block any opiatic effect of any drug and now you are just realizing it....

im more interested in what potentiates tianeptine even more, better with less dose rather than what blocks it or minimizes its effect!

Off topic at this point, but I've been reading reports of people having very positive experience combining tianeptine with micro doses of psychedelics, or dissociatives for a synergistic/potentiating result. These are for the most part larger doses of tianeptine, like up to 50mg.

Update 4/28 I skipped my suboxone dose today and was surprised a how much tianeptine I needed to catch any sort of buzz, but it did eliminate WD symptoms which tend to hit me fast at the 24 hr mark without suboxone. I'm hoping tomorrow I will be able to lower the doses because I should have a lot less suboxone stuck to my receptors.

 

[asecin]

why are you taking suboxies anyway they are just few weeks regime for wd from potent opiates after which they are not worthy of anything. and how much tianepts did you take to feel anything? btw you might need more and more of them since tolerance builds so quick its annoying as hell but it is what it is

 

[vortech]

why are you taking suboxies anyway they are just few weeks regime for wd from potent opiates after which they are not worthy of anything. and how much tianepts did you take to feel anything? btw you might need more and more of them since tolerance builds so quick its annoying as hell but it is what it is

..I know...now...but I had the misfortune of being on sub for 18 months...and I just was not able to get myself balanced or right in the head after I jumped off from a gradual taper. Four and a half months later I got back into the program, and that was a few weeks ago. I know this time not to be on them for so long, so I am experimenting with different ways to handle/manage the inevitable comedown soon...

Anyone familiar with Agmatine? Sounds like it would be good for potentiating/lowering tolerance for tianeptine. If I can take that and be able to taper the tianeptine after I jump off sub that's sounds like a decent plan

 

[asecin]

agmatine is one of those OTC things where you will need big doses to feel anything slightly likely unhelpful. i did the sulfate type for a while but i used huge doses and it barely gave me a nice clean calm feeling but it wasnt worth the big doses and also the expense it comes with. tho i never tried it for lowering tolerance for anything, but i have read this before that it might help so who knows, interesting to try it before and after opiate use i guess...

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

I'm trying it for tolerance to opiates atm. I'll report later.

 

[colemanito]

I am currently prescribed 20 mg of Suboxone daily, although I rarely take more than 8 to 12 mg. This morning I took an 8 mg strip (6:30 a.m.) and staggered a dose of 6 grams of gabapentin between 5 a.m. and 1 p.m. I received my first shipment of tianeptine this afternoon, and I dosed 100 mgs at 4:45 p.m. 50 minutes later I didn't feel much of anything, so I started getting my supplies together for my second dose of Sub (I use grain alcohol to aid absorption). Before I could even cut open the package, I suddenly realized that I felt slightly giddy and light headed. I wouldn't compare it to oxy, but maybe tramadol without the speedy, nasty, and anxious agitation that trams typically cause in me.

My point is that tianeptine definitely has an effect for someone who regularly takes Subs. I'd like to abstain from the bupe for a day or two to see if the tianeptine would work even better, but my doctor is bitching about my levels being too low. I'm basically being forced to take way more medication than I want or need. I am thankful for bupe giving my life back, but many doctors are running a plant that manufactures patients\bupe slaves. It's certainly a Catch-22 for any opiate addict that wants to keep a job, a roof over their head, and food on the table. In the words of a man much wiser than I, "Ain't that some shit".