The Big & Dandy Methoxphenidine / MXP / 2-MeO-Diphenidine Thread

[artisan82]

Can you please link to a news article?

http://m.u.tv/News/Man-released-over-Portstewart-murder/353ceb29-5ba6-44fd-a8e5-4c44e2816847

 

[NiceEnough]

Serious stuff.

1st dose: 85mg

some minor effects effects, standard for a dissociative, tingling, light euphoria, nothing much

1 hour later: another 85mg

definitely working, feeling more and more out of this world. Listen to some chakra balancing audio thing. Not great effects so add another 30mg

effects start to build and build. Strong stimulation, thoughts that i might have overdone it this time, but no, I am ok, I can ride this thing. Go out for something to eat but definitely can't get it down me, give up. Have a friend to help me out here because I am more than a little disorientated.

Lots of soul searching, and eventually dysphoria, but useful in the end, some kind of lesson learnt though not very clear. Feel like I have been given a good slap. Unable to speak properly though for at least 12 hours afterwards.

Weird drug. Lower doses definitely produce euphoria and enhanced appreciation of music, comfortable bed-lounging stuff. High doses definitely go a bit crazy and very stimulating, could hear my heart racing. Won't be doing that high a dose again. Definitely got mangled in some kind of twist if not hole so to speak.

I am am a very experienced dissociative user, would not recommend doing what I did if you aren't familiar with the territory. Start with 80mg or lower depending on experience.

 

[hamhurricane]

Thanks for that artisan82, can you provide any more information about your friend's methoxphenidine use or psychological state in the time surrounding the incident? You mention that he ordered 10 grams, that is a very large quantity, had he been using phenidines regularly in the preceding months?

 

[artisan82]

Thanks for that artisan82, can you provide any more information about your friend's methoxphenidine use or psychological state in the time surrounding the incident? You mention that he ordered 10 grams, that is a very large quantity, had he been using phenidines regularly in the preceding months?

I just know he had bought it with a view to share it on but didnt make it to the party that weekend, i know he had previous experience with mxe but not a substancial amount by any means! I believe he had been taking it for quite a few days consecutively and just maybe felt he could handle a bigger line this time on wednesday morning, he must of been composmentus in the morning as he was still posting on his facebook up until an hour before the event although it was random words like "roobarbtastic" etc. Trouble is i can sorta understand what has happened as i personally have railed too much mxe and had an ego death so know how these things can affect u but the thing is everyone at home that has heard the news just thinks he is some drug addict weirdo that killed his mum for money or some shit! I actually cant believe this has happened especially to a family that i was close to and im sad that i actually know the details! Such a waste of life in all respects i just dont think these particular chemicals are something that should be available online, there has been somewhat of a media blackout regarding the circumstances of this tradegy im guessing they dont want people knowing this stuff is out there and available maybe its time to do something about it as i lost another very close friend 3 years ago through prescription eastern european blue's that again were available online! Dont get me wrong im no angel, i was brought up through the xtc and speed generation i also love nice coca and the odd bit of k but these new chemicals are seriously something that i dont feel should be messed with.

 

[Ziiirp]

That is very tragic artisan82. I feel sorry for your loss and dislike the rumors surrounding the accident. I can imagine, how one can go overboard with it. I tried it for the first time yesterday. A brief overview :

tolerance : very low - not existing

pre-condition : hung over, sleep deprived (consumed weed, alcohol, making music with friends till the morning and slept on an uncomfortable bed)

T+0 : 5 - 10 mg insufflated (eyeballed as somewhat reckless allergy test) ; stimulation for several hours. very slight dissociation, but rather felt just stimulated with uncomfortable high BP because of alcohol after effects.

T+4h : 15 mg insufflated (measured out) ; nice detached feeling for 90 minutes, laying on bed watching Spain - Netherlands (nice game!!!), after that residual stimulation for 4 hours. 3 beers are consumed over the course of 6 hours ...

T+11h : able to sleep, would not say that it particularly inhibited somnia, because I always have trouble sleeping with a hangover. once sleep was achieved, it wasn't shattered.

post - condition : after 6 hours of medium quality sleep, I feel rather good. somewhat residual stimulation could be felt. I realize, that I make orthographic mistakes, what is uncommon for me, have to reread some sentences before submitting. (the high amount of haze could also be responsible)

I am pretty naive towards NMDA-antagonists. Had a few experiences with 3-meo-PCP (and very low doses DXM), which is less stimulating/more floaty but somewhat similar. I am generally rather careful when experimenting with potent novel stuff. IMHO those substance have a tendency to catalyze more morbid experience in comparison with 5ht2x-agonists. As a consequence they are more dangerous in uncontrolled environments. Be careful.

 

[crOOk]

What a terrible tragedy...

It sounds similar to one of those PCP overdose horror stories. Indeed be very careful with strong dissociatives.

There have been plenty of incidents like this on DXM as well actually. Dextroverse is full of similar stories, stabbing, grisly suicide attempt, rape of an elderly woman after forcing entry to her house and the like.

 

[psood0nym]

It may be relevant to reiterate Solipsis' earlier point about methoxphenidine's diphenyl structure in relation to dizocilpine (MK801), which according to its wikipedia page

is the most frequently used non-competitive NMDA receptor antagonist in animal models to mimic psychosis for experimental purposes..

and

Unlike dopaminergic agonists, which mimic only the positive symptoms of schizophrenia, a single injection of MK801 was successful in modelling both the positive and negative symptoms of schizophrenia.[9] Another study found that, although repeated low doses of MK-801 were only successful in mimicking behavioural changes such as a slight hyperlocomotion and increased prepulse inhibition, repeated administration of a higher dose mimicked both the above changes as well as the neurochemical alterations found in first-episode schizophrenic patients.[10] Not only has temporary use been shown to mimic psychosis but chronic administration in laboratory animals resulted in similar neuropathological changes as in schizophrenia.[11]

i.e. it's probably most prudent to not use MXP at any rate approaching a regular frequency, or in high doses.

Can Solipsis, or anybody confirm or elaborate on these similarities beyond what hamhurricane offers in this earlier quote?

I see a lot of posts conflating the words dissociative and arylcyclohexylamine, the two are not synonymous and little from arylcyclohexylamine SAR will carry over to the diarylethylamines like diphenidine, especially not the numbering system! If one were to extrapolate SAR from another structural class it would likely have to be a dibenzocycloheptene such as MK-801. 2-MeO-diphenidine is not not a novel compound (it is mentioned in one of the late 1980s Searle patents) but the 9-position in MK-801, which corresponds to the 2-position in diphenidine, has not been studied despite the seemingly exhaustive exploration of that class, so unfortunately 9-MeO-MK-801 can't be used as a data point to test the validity of a dibenzocycloheptene/diarylethylamine SAR overlap. That said, very few ring substitutions increase the potency of MK-801 so I am impressed that RC vendors were able to produce a more potent derivative of diphenidine so quickly.

 

[Solipsis]

There have been plenty of incidents like this on DXM as well actually. Dextroverse is full of similar stories, stabbing, grisly suicide attempt, rape of an elderly woman after forcing entry to her house and the like.

It may be relevant to reiterate Solipsis' earlier point about methoxphenidine's diphenyl structure in relation to dizocilpine (MK801), which according to its wikipedia page

and

i.e. it's probably most prudent to not use MXP at any rate approaching a regular frequency, or in high doses.

Can Solipsis, or anybody confirm or elaborate on these similarities beyond what hamhurricane offers in this earlier quote?

I think these are good points to combine: putting this in perspective, other dissociative drugs than MXP may carry similar risks, but mostly if taken up to the same level by comparison, via frequency or high dosage. Diphenidine and MXP apparently are just more pronounced this way and from the sounds of other people's experience and my brief trial with diphenidine there doesn't seem to be a more reasonable level of dissociative experience, or if there is, a lot of people are overshooting that range. Don't get me wrong, I think compounds like 3-MeO-PCP and 3-MeO-PCE are also very tricky and the amnesia factor is important for incidents where people temporarily lose themselves.
On dextroverse aren't there many avid DXM fans who take it up to upper plateaus? I believe that there is a significant number of people deterred by side-effects who don't entirely push the envelope... and with ketamine there is a lot more anaesthesia and less monoaminergic component. I may be wrong especially about the DXM, since I don't know the culture that well, only mostly that there is a pretty big one.
So IMO dissociatives should be used with responsibility and moderation and can obviously be very dangerous if not.
But additionally: some of the more novel and highly potent dissociatives may offer a shortcut to rather extreme states and maybe this makes it more difficult for people to watch their limits?

@psoodonym:

First of all, SAR is notoriously tricky so there are no guarantees here. But diphenidine and the analogues are modelled on the pharmacophore a number of dissociatives share, check the structures:

http://www.deepdyve.com/lp/elsevier...f-1-2-diphenylethylamine-and-1-1-2-VTv7PPJT5D

MXP's methoxy group is actually placed on the same aromatic ring (labeled A here) as the methoxy group on methoxetamine, only on MXP the substitution is ortho (2-) and on MXE it is meta (3-). By the way ham is partially right that the numbering system does not carry over, strictly speaking. The name 2-Meo-diphenidine is wrong because the true 2-position is on the backbone of the diphenidine molecule, the carbon directly on the right of the aromatic ring labeled B. The correct name would be '2-MeO-diphenidine, or it might require two or three apostrophies, I am not a 100% certain in which order the two phenylrings and the piperidine ring follow.
I can't really speculate much about diphenidine analogue development, but borrowing from other dissociative structures and generalizing the pharmacophore I think chemists have something to go on when they design analogues and add substitutions. Not only can wins and fails of MK-801 analogue design be used but also results from arylcyclohexylamines.
Still, you can't really fully rely on hybridized SAR like this apart from using it as mere guideline, and ham says that MK-801 is relatively optimized... but diphenidine isn't necessarily.

 

[dreamofrc]

There have been plenty of incidents like this on DXM as well actually. Dextroverse is full of similar stories, stabbing, grisly suicide attempt, rape of an elderly woman after forcing entry to her house and the like.

I think the only reason we don't hear even more DXM horror stories like that is just because it's usually extremely sedating at high doses (whereas at lower doses it's actually stimulating or neutral). It's a lot harder to do something really stupid when you can't move. I used to use high doses of DXM (1000mg+) on a fairly regular basis, and at that point it's an out of body experience where you've truly checked out from the real world entirely.

MXP isn't sedating at all so if you start having crazy thoughts you could easily act on them unfortunately. It seems to have a pretty steep and unpredictable response curve too. At lowish doses most people are reporting it being relatively clear mentally and easier to control than most dissociatives. It seems to turn into a monster when you up the dose though.

 

[wayab]

There have been plenty of incidents like this on DXM as well actually. Dextroverse is full of similar stories, stabbing, grisly suicide attempt, rape of an elderly woman after forcing entry to her house and the like.

author of a very nice book about dxm (psychonauts guide to the invisible landscape) killed him self a year before it was published

 

[PandaGun]

On a note of the sad story from MXP's use. High doses definitely incur 'mania' which, in my opinion, is lovely. However this can cause rash behaviour if you can not control it. On let's say around 175mg dosed orally the mania is extremely prominent and everything around you causes a sense of glee and with the disassociation in full swing it could SO easily cause you to do something stupid. Personally I can control it and have a coherent-ish conversation and seem extremely sober. Half the time I will be laughing like a maniac at a caterpillar i have found. It does seem the hole can be controlled. While I remember the ideas of being indestructible and the thoughts of acting as if you are in a lucid dream do float through your head... Aka pick someone up and throw them in to the sky...

Also it does seem to induce 'manic' episodes, a lot less so than dosing it, later on in the week which is enjoyable but of course is probably not a good thing!
Amazing chemical however. (-=

Edit: I have used this with 150mg of Bk, 2c-b and it was amazing. Rash move, even with a bucket of Benzodiapedines. I wish I could write a trip report but too much amnesia. Can re-call that i watched jupiter fall from the sky and watched my road turn into a jungle and it was snowing on one side and snowing glitter on the other side. Disney like visuals... Kinda like the family guy episode with Brian and Stewy going in to the disney world on his inter dimensional transport machine. Without the hatred towards jews though! Lasted around 22 hours. Diazepam had to be used as my girl friend wanted to be with her boyfriend!

 

[Solipsis]

Even if you have been able to stay in control in such states up to this point, never think that you are immune to having strange and tragic things happen to you. Likewise nobody is perfectly immune to drug-induced psychosis from say psychedelics, especially if there is an amnestic factor involved.
Speaking of which: benzo's have an amnestic component, some more than others. They may help to calm a person down but if you're out of luck it could contribute to completely losing the plot. I believe it is also dependent on the dose taken and in which stage. I have successfully helped calm one of my best friends down after he lost himself on a very strong 3-MeO-PCP session, so that he could sleep. I only gave it to him when he was pretty much completely back and it was only a little.

 

[NiceEnough]

my experience - sub 80mg dosages have great anti-depressant effects with mimimal motor/speech effects (although some), anything above that and you are playing with fire, believe me, its a creeper, comes up on you all of a sudden an hour or so after ingestion (oral). Like is said, i though i got stuck in a twist rather than a hole, a bit more confusing if anything can be. Treat with extreme caution but please don't discount entirely, has potential if treated with respect

 

[FrogWarrior]

I know alarm bells will go off in peoples heads when they hear the word iboga, but I've researched the substance heavily for years and have a good feel for its effects. I took a low dose (an extract, couldn't have been more than 10g of root bark, probably about 6) and waited to feel the effects. When it hit me I got sleepy and dozed off for about an hour, had a crazy vivid dream about John F Kennedy and his wife, in the dream his wife got assassinated. I woke up, gave it about an hour, then took 50 mg of MXP. When it hit me at first, I got really hot and thought it might be the onset of something dangerous so I took some alprazolam to lower my body temp and raise my seizure threshold, but before the alprazolam kicked in I realised it was fine, I felt this relaxed, warm, fuzzy feeling and my head was really clear. Over the course of the next 8 hours, I upped the dose by 90 mg MXP in 30 mg increments and whats strange is the brain fog/cognitive impairment wasn't there at all, instead my mind was completely clear but I was having visions and things were nice and trippy. I decided to up things, by taking some noids and thats when I blast off into space. At first I panicked because things amplified so rapidly, but I accepted that I'm already dead and just rid the wave and had a pretty mind blowing experience. I kept testing my blood pressure and heart rate, and both stayed normal throughout the whole thing. Whenever things would go back to normal, a bit more cannabis would blast me back into space. I had to be very careful with the dose of cannabis cuz it was like rocket fuel, a tiny amount would blast me into the twilight zone. Massive synergy there, the iboga stopped the cognitive impairment completely, maybe its due to its sigma antagonist properties. Interesting observation.

 

[N0 W4RN1NG]

^ What you do with your body is your choice, but in the interest of HR, no one should combine iboga with any amount of any recreational drug, let alone a bleeding edge RC.

 

[Xorkoth]

Wow, I strongly recommend against combining things with iboga, there is so much going on there. Of course as you said it was a low dose. Be careful though. Incidentally ibogaine is my favorite dissociative, nothing else like it. Most visionary substance that exists IMO.

 

[Ziiirp]

I dunno, whether it has already been discussed, so sorry for repeating the issue. Can someone estimate the half-life in vivo of this compound considering the molecular structure ? Can it be, that it has a very long t/2, for the same reason PCP-derivates have ? Thanks in advance.

 

[Solipsis]

Yes, because it relatively has a lot of hydrophobic groups. It dissolves better in fat and can get stuck to fatty tissues and be released from it gradually. Long trailing after effects are the subjective correlate of that I guess.
MXP should be milder in this respect than diphenidine itself because the added methoxy contributes to a reverse effect.

I wouldn't dare estimate the half-life but expect it to be crazy long, possibly longer even than PCP / 3-MeO-PCP.

 

[Soul137]

This stuff is nice. Not much to say yet. The highest I've dosed is 85mg (a few different times, some in combo with other drugs) but it has definitely created a nice calm dissociation for me. I'd like to go to 100mg next time because IME re-dosing really doesn't work which is odd for dissociatives. I've tried adding an additional 80mg at around the 2 hour mark and not much came of it except preventing a comedown. I definitely want to pursue it further at some point.

 

[Ziiirp]

@ Solipsis

Thanks a lot ! That endorses my empirically formed impression. So one has to be extra careful regarding possible interactions.