Lysergamides White fluff LSD vs Needlepoint LSD

[Ismene]

It's not a question of what you think blue, it's a matter of simple science and chemistry. LSD is LSD. Not LSD is not LSD. No LSD is "better" or "more pure" than any other LSD. Any difference is purely down to set and setting. Even that legendary alaskan thunderfuck fluff we used to take back in '59 was just LSD.

 

[MagickalKat777]

I could give a fuck....Whatever you think is true, is true for you....Especially when it comes to psychedelics, I'd like to tell people how it was, but everyone seems to know everything...typical adolescent bullshit

Adolescent bullshit? Most of the regular PD'ers are quite past their "adolescent" age. The way that you're ranting and carrying on makes you come off as a typical know-it-all adolescent which is even worse IMO.

The LSD debate is bullshit. Even "back in the day," "LSD" was not always LSD. Shit there were rumors of ALD-52 blotters way back in the 70s!

Nobody has ever proven anything though other than actual testing of blotters. I used to read the Microgram reports when they were public and I've seen blotter with DOB, DOC, DOI, 5-MeO-AMT, and Bromo-DFLY in that time. I'm sure there are some I'm forgetting. Very few "acid" samples actually tested for LSD.

The fact is, nobody can say without lab testing what is or isn't acid. The trip itself is so variable, even from the same vial, that unless you are sending every single bit of acid you come across in for testing, you can't make any specific conclusions as to what it actually is (obviously extremely long duration voids this by default).

 

[Ismene]

The only time I tried different LSD was back in the day with Professor Hoffman at Sandoz. This would have been about 1958. It was very pure and clean like a mountain stream. It was known as alaskan thundercock. That was the last batch - Hoffman said it was secret and he would never make it again.

 

[The Shadow Self]

The majority of the LSD I took was back in the mid 80's to the mid 90's. In the mid 80's, it was easy to find, and many, many music events were places we could get tabs or hits very easily. For the most part, the LSD we got was outstanding, with some intermittent exceptions. I have seen so many different prints it's not even funny. We were very lucky in the the was around, and if not the Dead, Jerry and company were touring at times, so here in the Northeast, the LSD seemed to always be circulating on and off, with minor exceptions for quite a while. In addition, there was a band, Max Creek, who was a local legend and a rather good jam-band, who, when they played, had many of the same folks selling LSD at the shows that were directly connected to the Dead "people". I used to go to the shows JUST to get my sheets, or at least a 1/4 sheet or so, and leave. It was the way a bunch of us kept a regular supply of LSD on hand. All I can say is that we often got really, really good LSD. But I will say, that SOME of the very best we ever got tends to a) be laid on thicker paper that broke off easily in the perforations, b) was White on White, was what appeared to be THE SAME or SIMILAR paper but had prints of, say, blue stars or gold stars on it. These three variations, while others were good as well, and we RARELY got bunk LSD, just slightly weaker ug's per dose, were the very best that we, in particular, got our hands on over time. There were LOTS of other prints that were awesome, and overall, I am grateful for the high quality of LSD that we got, and to be honest, I miss it, even at my age when I just like to trip once in a while. I am a busy person with lots of responsibilities, a family, so on. Back then, we were into heroic doses, and going to the "sacred space" was something we did regularly, and it was transcendant, beautiful, sometimes frightening as hell.
I have tremendous respect of LSD, and only got in trouble when I didn't respect it's power as a compound. I almost lost myself to it for a period of heavy use, and almost put myself in a psychiatric inpatient setting for a time back then when I just couldn't stop using it and it was fucking me up pretty good.

Anyway, back when we acquired our LSD, things were not "branded" like they are now. Now, even when you buy weed from someone, you get a fucking soliloquy regarding the strain, often with people spouting bullshit and who don't even have a real knowledge of the difference between indica, sativa, and hybridization, or what the "name brand" really means. People often sound ridiculous telling you the parroted, "brand name" of the "boutique" quality marijuana. I want to punch them sometimes...

Anyway, regardless of manufacturing techniques, synth processes, whatever, almost no one could tell you anything other than "it's REALLY good", or "it's really clean", or "start with one or two so you don't go to the moon". There were no Nbomes, thank god, and there was no online, and there was just someone who wanted to sell it and someone who wanted to buy it. Generally, you could by a sheet for 100 bucks and it was literally a buck a tab. If you bought 25 someone would give them to you for 20 bucks. I mourned the days when it became less available, and now, I am out of the "circle", so that even if I wanted to get it, I'd have to get it online, and I don't trust anyone because of the Nbome "problem" and unscrupulous assholes that will sell anything to make a buck. I was kind of honored to be around when LSD was readily available, and I do miss it. I have compounds like AL-LAD and LSZ which are a nice "replacement", but to me, nothing will ever beat the king of all kings of psychedelics: LSD. It has no taste, other than what happened chemically a while after ingestion where you typically got that "metallic" taste or sensation, and that peculiar taste, almost like you had a fucking strange "coin" in your mouth, would be there for the entire length of a given trip, and was very obvious, and one way you KNEW you had LSD. I recall one of the interesting parts of taking it was that you could TELL that there was (or wasn't) LSD on the paper as this taste phenomenon occurred (it came one within a few minutes and was obvious within an hour), and we'd all look at each other, beginning to feel the effects within a short time, that we had, once again, gotten some good LSD. If you gave me some paper right now, and I put it in my mouth, I'd know in short order if it was LSD, without a doubt. Anyway, all I know is the only thing that mattered to me was that it WORKED, and when we got really good LSD, and knew you had MORE once you tested it, you were in heaven for as long as that paper lasted. I remember that feeling of buying a sheet, testing it among friends, and we'd be like, "Damn...we are GOOD to go for a while", and hopefully wouldn't have to go looking again any time soon. Rinse, repeat.

That's my experience with what used to be a great LSD scene, and one that made it easy...you got what you paid for, and the seller did, too. Nice business model. Then, everything else happened; Jerry died, Pickard got busted, that "scene" went away, the advent of the internet, the synthing of new chemical, and the rest of the recipe for acquiring LSD from one person to another, diminished. I know it's out there, but I am no longer in a place where I could go be part of the scene and not be thought to be a cop at my age, aside from the fact that even at that, there are assholes out there who don't know what's on the paper they are selling, and just because it's psychoactive, it gets passed off. And to tell you the truth, I've never hated anything as much as Nbomes because it ruined the LSD scene as it was once known , as did the assholes who try to pass it off as such.

 

[ZFC]

^Of course a lot of the thing with names is bullshit and always has been, but don't discount everything you hear just because you've never had any direct experience with it!

I understand that some of you live in Europe and only come across blotter acid once every 20 years(or order it from your imaginary friends online), or live in the US but are 10+ years too young to have been there when LSD WAS incredibly available, incredibly potent, AND GUESS FUCKING WHAT?! There were different kinds!

It's all well in good that you've studied some of the science behind it, but having never experienced the culture surrounding LSD(which maybe you have, if so explain), I don't see how you can just dismiss everything everyone says offhand!

I think the problem with this question is that, NOBODY can actually find a fucking accurate answer online, because they're isn't one, so instead of saying, "I don't know the difference...", you dismiss the whole idea offhand....

Regardless of what you think of the different names of LSD...I'd point out of few things I've learned from...IDK, real fucking life with my own two eyes!

1.Blotter acid is(was, they probably use less now) commonly made 10,000 hits at a time with grams of LSD....1 gram=10,000

This is done simply by dissolving the crystal in alcohol or water, laying the blotter in it and letting it dry....A 3 year old could understand the concept!...How do you presume it gets on the paper? And why would imply I don't know what I'm talking about?!!! No, really, fucking tell me what you know and why you think you're qualified to dismiss what I say?!!

Most liquid is made from washing the container the blotter was laid in with more alcohol and put in a container for later use...Such liquid is called "wash"..woah, I'm describing something with a word!...again, a concept a fucking 3 year old could understand!!..."OH BUT NOBODY CAN REALLY SAY HAR HAR HAR! IT"S ALL JUST NAMES!"...

Some liquid is made from taking a small amount of the crystal and dissolving that in a small amount of fluid for personal use by a few people...That liquid is much more potent than the wash because it's simply the pure crystal in solution....Putting a small drop of THAT solution on blotter is needlepoint....At least, that's what I was always told it was....

You're carrying a lot of negativity for a self-proclaimed LSD expert.

 

[infantannihilator]

You're carrying a lot of negativity for a self-proclaimed LSD expert.

I think his entire "argument" is summed up nicely by his last words

...At least, that's what I was always told it was....

 

[EarthBounded]

This is just like this thread, we have all come to one conclusion who knows what is true about these two street names, and we have no conclusive evidence
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...hile-peaking-on-chinese-needlepoint-lsd/page2

 

[sekio]

I used to read the Microgram reports when they were public and I've seen blotter with DOB, DOC, DOI, 5-MeO-AMT, and Bromo-DFLY in that time. I'm sure there are some I'm forgetting. Very few "acid" samples actually tested for LSD.

Microgram was for reporting large, unusual or novel drug seizures; the reason you never saw many LSD-positive tabs reported was not because they weren't out ther; it was because a seizure of a few tens or hundreds of hits is pretty pedestrian. Now, alprazolam blotters.... those are newsworthy.

 

[LSD Cruiser]

Although to be fair the statement "it's either LSD or it isn't" is only accurate if we are also including its isomers in our definition of what is LSD. Even if theoretically the chemist did synthesize 100% (+)-D-LSD, there is theoretically always going to be some form of degradation (unless you can keep it -20 celcius from the time of laying the blotter to the time you dose or some other miracle.) If the chemists nowadays push out product anywhere near as quick as they used to you can imagine they are going to cut corners here and there, or not always have the same chemical reactions, resulting in (+)-D-LSD along with its isomers. We've studied the isomers of LSD, they don't do shit, so this could only matter to the person laying the blotter. Their method of valuing LSD's worth seems to be based on color more than an actual gas spectrometry quantitative analysis, which really doesn't mean anything for determining purity. So in this sixth-grade science sense, the names mean very little, and that is why we are arguing the hoax behind the branding. Had you actual GC/MS results for the crystal your working with though, then it might mean something, as 1 gram of 95% (+)-D-LSD would theoretically lay 10,000 doses at 95 micrograms, whereas if it is only 50% (+)-D-LSD you are only going to get 50 micrograms using the same measurements.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

LSD is an arrangement of atoms in a set structure. A molecule can either be LSD or not LSD. You can't have different "kinds". People seem to have this bizarre idea that chemists come up with something that's "almost LSD". Chemistry doesn't work like that - it's either LSD or it ain't LSD. You can have either a bigger dose or a smaller dose. That's about it. It doesn't matter a toss whether you dissolve it on a thousand blotters or drink it straight from the bottle as long as you're getting the same amount of LSD it's going to be the same - the only difference will be placebo.

And don't underestimate placebo btw, if I gave someone a blotter and said "This is pure sandoz baby" they'd probably have a great trip. If I gave them the same blotter saying "This is real dirty, the chemist kept it down the crack of his arse for 6 months and never washed once" they'd probably think it was "dirty".

All of these things are true.

 

[twelvesevndi]

I'm done arguing with a bunch of snot-nosed little fucking nerds who have no clue....

lol! what's going on with you dude... no one was even arguing with you til you started your bizzarre diatribe revolving around your inappropriate romanticization of your own misspent youth and the fear and self-doubt you feel whenever you interact with someone younger than you.

fwiw, I want to avoid whatever you were eating back then like the plague. You've got a huge ego and some serious impulse/anger control issues that really, really shouldn't exist if you've eaten a lot of psychedelics...

 

[sean107]

BOOM! hahaha

 

[BlueHues]

Yeah, I just wanna say...the name thing with drugs is bullshit a lot of the time with everyone making unfounded claims about the drugs they can get, but there's some validity to it....People use identifiers all the time to identify batches of drugs...

I was in a particularly pissy mood a couple days ago when I posted this, but I do take it personally when every time I make a post on LSD, it gets dismissed as bullshit...

In the end, unless you test what you have there's no way of telling what it is...I at least know the blotter I got caught with was LSD because it was tested by the police as part of the case against me...

I talk about these things now because I'd never risk selling that stuff again...

I don't mean to lash out at people I don't even know...It's a big world and I know that what I've experienced is just a fraction of a small flash of the greater reality, but when it comes to LSD, that's something I have a lot of experience with...I know a little more than the average person of the science behind it, but I know there's plenty of people on BL who are far more knowledgeable about the drug itself than I am..However, when it comes to purely empirical knowledge, I think I'm qualified to speak on the subject...

Also, I agree that the placebo effect could definitely influence someone's subjective experience of a psychedelic like LSD more than say...alcohol or opiates...Since with psychedelics, the perception of what the experience will be plays a huge role in shaping the experience itself...So, if you told someone that the acid they took was horrible, dirty shit...Of course it could manifest itself as all sorts of "phantom symptoms"...I personally can "think myself" into having a lot of symptoms without even taking drugs....but above and beyond that, there definitely is something to the whole "clean and dirty" thing...and I know there's all sorts of bogus theories behind that as well...Involving strychnine, speed, etc etc...but whatever it is, when I was taking acid every weekend, and one person was selling me sheets for twice as much as the next guy, and literally everyone in the whole scene knew one was "fluff" and one was "amber"....You could tell the difference....This wasn't just a couple idiots making it up, this was just generally understood....

the amber, I wouldn't call "bad", but you could definitely feel it more in your body, like a little bit of a speedy feeling that you could feel before anything psychedelic kicked in, the visuals weren't as great and it generally felt more "cloudy"...Pretty much everyone knew that about it, it was just an accepted thing...some people actually preferred that feeling to the clean acid....

The fluff came on totally unannounced and was just beautiful, it just felt so natural with no real harshness...You could be having breathtaking kaleidoscope visuals without any tight feeling in your chest or spine.....

then, I've had blotters that you had to take 4 to even really trip, and you had a feeling like little currents of electricity were zapping your extremities...the whole time felt like acid reflux, just unpleasant shit...

I can't explain it, and maybe nobody can....but why everyone dismisses this time and time again, I have no idea...

Is it really that far out of the realm of possibility that there was something else other than LSD in the "dirty acid" that was causing these feelings?

Anyway, I apologize heartily for having offended thee...and yeah....the question can't be answered because nobody knows...I will agree that good LSD is "good LSD" though....any medium that it's delivered on is just packaging....although, some of the packaging is pretty amazing on it's own...

 

[ZFC]

good LSD is "good LSD" though....any medium that it's delivered on is just packaging....although, some of the packaging is pretty amazing on it's own...

This should conclude nicely this thread (?). Thanks for sharing.

 

[buildersoftime]

OK, first off I'm a bluelighter with a thousand or so posts on PD and ADD. Many of you know me. Ive opened a new account for opSec reasons due to recent events.

Anyone who thinks "dirty acid" doesn't exist is a naïve fucking moron....

I'm not a scientist, although I'm not stupid, and my 2 best friends..one of whom is a PHd is physics, but also has an undergrad in chemistry has no problem with the idea of dirty acid...

I'm a "naive fucking moron" and thats OK because I have something that doesnt require me to either believe in dirty acid or not. It doesnt know or care whether I want something to be true or not. In fact it was created for the very purpose of stopping my opinions getting in the way of what's actually true about nature of the universe around me. It's called the scientific method and it was created by thousands of the smartest people on earth over thousands of years of trial and error. It's the reason why I have a miricle of technology in my pocket, it's why LSD exists in the first place and it's what's enabling me to type these words to you.

It's great that you consulted a scientist. Thats exactly what I would have done in your position. Seeing as the definition of a scientist is someone who confirms hypothesis with evidence, your friend will be able to demonstrate to you what the molecular structure is of the 'dirt' in dirty acid, what are its effects, LD50, binding afinities (and to which receptors) and what dose it requires for activity in humans.

Believe me. Everyone who argues against the dirty acid myth would be happy to change their stance once shown evidence of the existence of a thing that's like acid, in acid, but isnt acid that makes you puke at doses in the 10's of micrograms. Until then, here are some facts - not opions, facts:

LSD-25 is a fairly non-discriminatory agonist of seretonin receptors. Your intestines are covered in seretonin receptors. Acid acts on your gut in the same way as it acts on your brain. Projectile diarrhea is a gastric halucination the same way as wavy lines and melting textures are visual halucinations. Sometimes a trip isnt very visual and sometimes it isnt very gastric. Sometimes the trip is one, sometmes the other, both or neither. The LSD experience is variable based on set and setting and (in my case last night), that encludes whether youve eaten a big meal of prawns and jerusalem artichokes a few hours before.

I know what the party-line, "official bluelight opinion" is on LSD, but I personally disagree with a lot of it based on my own personal experiences...

Some of the people you are arguing against on this thread are chemists and pharmacologists. They have the understanding and skill to make LSD if they wanted, and for all I know, they might even be the source of your 'white fluff'. If it wasnt against Bluelight rules, we might be talking about running chromotography colums but we cant.

So sorry, personal disagreement doesnt stand up against hard facts and evidence. Your experiences are subjective where what youre arguing against is derived from objective, empirical measurement.

 

[phantomcosmonaut]

Why is this thread even open? LSD is LSD, the packaging does not change the trip, the "batch" does not change the trip; only dose and environment will do that. The same goes for any other drug, as long as its known to be pure. These differences in batches that bluehues and others are reporting are caused by set/setting/dose (unless every "batch" that had a difference was just cut with something different) and that is fact. Seriously, I think we need to keep bullshit like this off bluelight.

 

[LSD Cruiser]

What I can gather from this BoT is an argument between current & former LSD distributors vs. scientific methodologists with unannounced relations to LSD.

Too bad we can only be vague with discussing synthesis of LSD as per the rules or maybe we could narrow down the potential byproducts. As it stands now scientists the world over legally manufacturing LSD have concluded its isomers and process of isomerization produce no potential physical activity anywhere. iso-LSD is the only isomer that can be synthesized along with the active (+)-D-LSD I can come up with in any hypothetical synthesis. The others only appear as a result of time and storage. Now don't get any ideas readers, but an LSD synthesis using PyBOP has even been done in a guy's own house before. Sure, he went to prison for it as these things aren't legal, but based on the pictures photojournalists released it was actually quite impressive. This route would result in a fair bit of iso-LSD and poor yield yet the end product has been proven through not only the power of science, but the same empirical data BluesHues relies on , there were no known physical effects. I don't recall exactly the results but they are widely available online (something like 76-84% (+)-D-LSD was the end product. Even that was probably a guess by the chemist and not based on fact admittedly.)

But yes enough of the appeal to authority. There are people on this site from John Hopkins who study this sort of thing. There's others who were right there with BluesHues ripping off pages, even Bibles, of LSD. I suggest the latter are rogue with their tales of LSD selling escapades for legal reasons because they might even still be there for all we know. It doesn't matter. Those arguments don't hold weight in the realm of science, a land where we decipher and decrypt the ever-moving questions behind "What is true?" and "What is not true?". John Hopkins or LSD dealer your background does not alter the facts as humans are presently cognizant.

 

[Ismene]

Anyone who thinks "dirty acid" doesn't exist is a naïve fucking moron....

You can tell the difference easily...It gives you unpleasant tingling sensations, a nervous stomach sometimes making you puke, muscle spasms...Good LSD might give you a slightly stimulated feeling but that's about it....

So you don't think "good" LSD can give you headaches, make you feel nauseous etc? "Good" LSD can only have one set physical effect and no other?

That simply isn't how I experience LSD. I've taken LSD one week and had a blinding headache and felt like shit, then I've tripped 2 weeks later from the next blotter along and felt fantastic. Now unless one blotter was "dirty acid" and the next blotter along was "good acid" how do you explain that?

LSD, even the "cleanest" LSD in the Sandoz lab, is going to have a vast range of effects dependent on your mood, the weather, your surroundings etc. The idea that there's some kind of "clean" acid that always makes you feel a certain way is just silly - it's the kind of thing someone who'se never tripped thinks.

 

[buildersoftime]

What I can gather from this BoT is an argument between current & former LSD distributors vs. scientific methodologists with unannounced relations to LSD.

You'll be surprised how many are actuall both.

I've seen much bullshit in my time. Evidence is evidence, unsubstantiatiated opionon and gut feelings are just that.

 

[BlueHues]

This should conclude nicely this thread (?). Thanks for sharing.

You and your 74 posts are quite presumptuous....

I got respect for ya bluehues. Forget he haters

Yeah, thanks laugh

@Blues Hues. It's entirely NOT outside the realm of possibility that you and I "bumped into" one another at one point, since I went to nearly every Max Creek show in the area from, say the late 80's to early 90's to find sheets and such, though I was in CT, primarily. Small world, after all, right? Perhaps not, but you never know...

Yeah, it's possible, but I wasn't around in the '80s...I was 15 in '91-'92 and that was the very beginning of shows and LSD for me...I first did blotter LSD in '92...It was yellow shields if you remember that series of prints...

It was a small scene and I'm sure we know some of the same people, although I'm betting you're a good 5 years older at least...

Max Creek was like a little micro dead scene, many Creek heads were touring Deadheads....

at that time though, the deadheads and the ravers really didn't know much of one another...Those two things seem so linked now it's hard to imagine...

The Living room in Providence was my favorite spot...I remember selling doses there and getting drunk...I'd always end up dosing a bunch myself by the end of the night...That's always fun, to go from being ready to go home and pass out to tripping your balls of well into the next day!

Yeah, I don't think a lot of people who weren't there can really imagine the magnitude of the Dead LSD thing....It was much more open than it is now...Outside the show, there were literally hundreds of people with it...and everything else!

Just people yelling out names...Yellow Felix! Yellow Felix! Tim Leary! In those days, you could go to a show and score 500 hits of high quality LSD from complete stranger without much of a problem....

There were a lot of people selling bunk too, but there was usually one print out that you could always trust at any given time...There was more good shit that anything else...All you had to do was ask around and find out what it was and then find someone with that...The actual prints were hard to get too, so your chances of scoring some with that print that had nothing on it was slim....

It's pretty well known know that the guys who got busted in the Kansas missile silo thing were the ones supplying the majority of the LSD around at that time, especially the Dead...and it was definitely pretty organized.....As stupid as it sounds...the best prints always seemed to have the best LSD(Fluff) back then...and all the blotters that had that acid on it, despite having different graphics on it, were all kind of similar...the sheet of 900 always had a strip running down the side of hits that were only about 2/3s the size of the rest of the hits...Also, the whole front of the page was usually completely covered with some insane graphic...

You can look up some of the legendary blotter art on a search engine from those days...The ones I always remember were Mad Hatter, Tim Leary, Pyramids(E Pluribus) and Strawberries.....

It's just pretty funny to me that some self-styled sophomore chemistry expert would diss the '90s dead LSD scene, it's fucking ridiculous actually...