Any evidence of psilocybin mushroom use among ancient peoples of the British Isles?

[edzeppelin]

Couldn't find anything on this site. Other sites are inconclusive. I figured this is the place to ask if anybody knew.

I know the Norse used Amanita.

 

[Fire&Water]

Google is your best friend "right in front of you" !

 

[mahoosive bendah]

hunter gatherer's survival depneded on knowledge of plants and fungi, regardless of what evidence may exist its logical that they would have figured it out pretty quick.

hall-o-ween predates the arrival of christianity via the romans [ i think ] IMO thats evidence enough alone, the druids were also pretty organised and clued up herbal remedies etc [ again no historian just off the top of my head ] I'd find ti hard to believe that they wouldnt realised that the mushrooms that appear in thier 1000s every autum were making them trip

scuse the typos...

 

[Solipsis]

Psilocybes have been found all around the world, although I think the oldest found specimens are like 3500 years old. But there is also indirect evidence not only of their existence but also their use since the first recordings of history. They pre-date history and most probably pre-date us.

Not sure what use in the British region was ever cultural or religious, but from a catholic point of view this would all be considered pagan which may have wiped and suppressed knowledge on the subject:

In Europe, we are recovering knowledge about the entheogenic substances used in ancient times, but all traces of the popular rites in which entheogenic substances were consumed have been lost. We only know something about the most famous ancient rites, like the Greek ones of Eleusis and Samothrace. In other words, in Mediterranean Europe the traditional use of entheogenic substances has only survived in very, very marginal places where there are still some elderly people of the mountainous regions who take them in a recreational, individual way. Of course, I’m not referring here to the new generations interested in the subject, the majority of whom are a product of the psychedelic experience of thirty years ago, and not of ancestral traditions.

http://anthropogen.com/2010/06/09/t...icating-substances-in-the-mediterranean-area/

^ It makes sense because obviously mushrooms like P. Semilanceata were here before all the interest in Psilocybes yet AFAIK not in a spiritual or religious context.

The first reliably documented report of Psilocybe semilanceata intoxication involved a British family in 1799

source: Brande E. (1799). "Mr. E. Brande, on a poisonous species of Agaric". The Medical and Physical Journal: Containing the Earliest Information on Subjects of Medicine, Surgery, Pharmacy, Chemistry and Natural History 3: 41–44. / wiki

 

[Diloadid]

There is a History Channel documentary called The Stoned Ages which discusses the use of psychoactive compounds throughout history. I really don't know if History Channel is super credible these days but it is worth a try. The entire documentary is on YouTube.

And yes, that is Hank from Breaking Bad...

 

[Solipsis]

It is highly probable that people, if only certain tribesmen, have always known about the uses of such mushrooms if they were/are found in the vicinity/habitat. IMO the main argument would be whether they would be taken intentionally (e.g. medicinally or in religious capacity) or just be considered intoxicants.

 

[Foreigner]

Liberty caps (psilocybe semilanceata) are native to Europe including the British Isles. You can bet your top dollar that pre-Christian societies used them in some fashion or another since their medicinal knowledge of plant medicines was advanced.

 

[Transform]

They grow in their hundreds in parts of northern england, it is near certain that they knew about the effects, I think the question is whether they used them regularly.

 

[laugh]

And for what purpose

 

[Incunabula]

Op's question here is "is there any evidence of psilocybin mushroom use among ancient peoples of the British Isles?"

I think we can clearly say no. There's no evidence what so ever that the stone age people of the british isle's used psilocybin mushroom or any other entheogens for that matter.

We also don't have any evidence at all that the celts or the vikings did.

Yes, of cause, it's completely plausible that these people of the Neolithic brittain had an extensive knowledge of plants and herbs. But had they used entheogens I think we would have seen proof of it in their artwork, like we see in the arwork left by the indians of the America's.

We would have found some kind of "holy mushroom" bone figures, or psychedelic patterning hewed in stone etc.

Also, it's a myth about the vikings and amanita muscaria. The vikings only used mead to inebriate themselves.
There's no mushrooms at all in the viking mythology or stories, what so ever. No mushrooms in their art work either. No proof of them having used fly agaric ever. Only speculations and theories.

Also, I'd say fly agaric is a pretty bad substance for "berserker rage", as any one who tried it wold certainly testify.

 

[pofacedhoe]

Op's question here is "is there any evidence of psilocybin mushroom use among ancient peoples of the British Isles?"

I think we can clearly say no. There's no evidence what so ever that the stone age people of the british isle's used psilocybin mushroom or any other entheogens for that matter.

We also don't have any evidence at all that the celts or the vikings did.

Yes, of cause, it's completely plausible that these people of the Neolithic brittain had an extensive knowledge of plants and herbs. But had they used entheogens I think we would have seen proof of it in their artwork, like we see in the arwork left by the indians of the America's.

We would have found some kind of "holy mushroom" bone figures, or psychedelic patterning hewed in stone etc.
.

have you seen viking artwork on their ships or celtic art?

 

[velmwend]

There isn't any recorded evidence of psilocybin use in the british isles until the 19th century, when a couple of accidental poisonings were recorded by doctors. A great book is Shroom by Andy Letcher. It pretty much discounts all the BS and just tells it as it is.

 

[Diloadid]

have you seen viking artwork on their ships or celtic art?

I wish I could find it, but I def. remember reading some article about vikings using amanita muscaria for some reason.

 

[In_A_Transit]

I speculate people have been tripping off the mushrooms for 1000's of years.

 

[edzeppelin]

Liberty caps (psilocybe semilanceata) are native to Europe including the British Isles. You can bet your top dollar that pre-Christian societies used them in some fashion or another since their medicinal knowledge of plant medicines was advanced.

It seems highly unlikely that someone wouldn't at least have tried them, given there availability, ancient man's keen awareness of his environment(No modern distractions), and the ever present drive to satiate hunger.I know they are the single worse tasting thing I've ever eaten(Pod Tea is second, and ancient man certainly found that plant)

I guess the larger question, beyond having direct evidence, is if they had some sort of impact on ancient cultures of the British Isles. Apparently the answer is no.

 

[Ismene]

There's no evidence people in the British Isles used mushrooms much before the late 1960s.

Funnily enough as soon as the Siberians discovered vodka use of amantia plummeted too. Psychedelics have always been for a small minority - even in South America where use of mushrooms goes back a long time it wasn't like some 1960s commune where the aztecs all sat round tripping together. The only evidence is of kings and preists using them during sacrificial ceremonies where they slaughtered young virgins or medicine women like Maria Sabina using them as a supposed tool for medical diagnosis.

I think psychedelics have really hit the big-time in the last 50 years.

 

[amanitadine]

I speculate people have been tripping off the mushrooms for 1000's of years.

I speculate that people speculate far too much about shit for which their is no evidence, just things they want to believe. No evidence of Psilocybes use in the UK before the 20th century. But ask McKenna (through Hyperspace of course, duh) and he'll tell ya that's what turned us into humans. Tripping balls. Evidence for it? Weeeeeeeeaaaaak. But nice idea, especially when trying to sell a cult of personality to a newly energized group of aficionados in the 90's. Food of the gods was interesting, as speculative fiction. The invisible landscape was just horseshit, nonsense good for a laugh. But hey, I'll give the guy a break, first book and all, and he did his job effectively, ie garnering interest in psychedelics and forming a new embryonic community. I saw him speak several times, went to workshops, and thoroughly enjoyed it all. Just don't take him seriously. He certainly didn't.

 

[webbykevin]

There's no evidence people in the British Isles used mushrooms much before the late 1960s.

Bullshit - no offense but my grandmother was a country woman, farmers wife, lived her whole life in the south west of england and knew all about traditional herbs, plants and medicines, she told me that magic mushrooms had been around for a long long time and could remember them being used when she was a young girl, (around 1910) and also could rememeber her grandmother telling her about them, so that takes her direct knowledge of it in just our family history back to around the early to mid 1800s.

In Devon where I originally come from the old tales of pixies and elves all contain refences to dancing in mushroom patches, of the sprites and goblins that inhabited the cornish caves, moors and tin mines all stretch back into pre-history.

Ireland is also littered with historical references to the other world inhabited by leprechauns, elves, pixies and the spirits of our dead ancestors.

Celtic art is rich with the motifs and patterns suggested under the influence of psilocybin, also the use of many other entheogens such as hensbane, wormwood, beladona is wide and extensive also suggesting dates well before the middle ages.

Look at the witches brew scene from Macbeth and tell me that doesn't suggest use of psychedelic plants.


And there is actually very little evidence that the north american indians used peyote or mushrooms before white men came, if you look at the findings in old grave sites what you find is not peyote but ordeal poisons.

so once again we see that Great Britain and it's people held sacred knowledge and took it with them as they colonised the planet and shared it with the world, where as the swiss/central europeans have exported cuckoo clocks and toblerone and fuck all else

 

[Solipsis]

Yes Ismene is bullshitting, just check the last bit of post #4 of this thread. I have already provided documentation of a report from 1799.

And no, despite the misidentification as a type of Fly Agaric, the account is clearly about P. Semilanceata. Check page 16 of this book by Jochen Gartz where he immediately mentions the historic account. I am not aware of other common types of psilocybes growing in the UK but P. Azurescens and P. Cyanescens should find the conditions hospitable unless I am mistaken.
For those interested in Psilocybe history I suggest you check this book, and for those interested in Liberty Cap history or to verify things, check page 16.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/109403745/Magic-Mushrooms-Around-the-World

 

[webbykevin]

Yes Ismene is bullshitting, just check the last bit of post #4 of this thread. I have already provided documentation of a report from 1799.

What I am saying though is not just that there was the occasional accidental ingestion of these mushrooms but they were used in pagan religious tradition to maintain a dialog with the other world of magical mystical beings, entities from a shifted part of reality, and this was known about for 1000's of years and not just a rare accident