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The Main 5-MAPB Thread

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I've messed with APB's infrequently and developed mitral valve prolapse. Don't know if they're causally related but it's very likely.
Did you have an echocardiography before your benzofuran-abuse?
 
Wow, sorry to hear that, bro! Now I am worried! Is this permanent? How old are you guys?
Is it just me, or suddenly those APBs are very dangerous drugs?
If so, shouldn`t these stories be getting more attention!? I mean, I had no idea these drugs had such 5ht2b activity until 2 weeks ago, and I usually read a lot of threads here before using new stuff...
I have no idea how serious are these problems you guys are having, but heart problems seems serious enough! Serious enough for me to stop using those drugs if they can't be used sporadically without giving me permanent damage.
 
Sorry, gonna be a long one...

5-HToInfinity- First off, sorry to hear about your heart problems... hope you get better <3. I know what your going through, shit sucks and if you have anxiety like me it can be a stressful nightmare. TBH though, I'd be shocked if the prolapse was caused by APB use. Mitral valve prolapse, as well as mitral regurgitation, are actually very common heart valve disorders seen in many non drug users. If the MVP was caused by APB's, which again I doubt, it's unrelated to 5-ht2b agonism as this is just not the damage typically produced by stimulation of this receptor.

The damage from 5-ht2b agonism is very unique, and actually mutates? (probably not the best choice of words) the valve with what looks like calcium deposits with a glistening white appearance. Also, the main problems stemming from this are usually along the lines of proliferation, mitral, aortic, and tricuspid regurgitation, as well as stenosis... or something along those lines.

Like asked previously, have you had any echo's done prior to the abuse? As I'm pretty sure it's not uncommon to be born with MVP, and I know for sure that mitral regurgitation is a very common valve disorder to be born with, even my older brother was born with it.

As for treatment of MVP, which I'm sure you discussed with your doctor, as long as it's not extreme or causing symptoms (without stims) the "wait and watch closely" approach is usually the best option, as well as some meds to take the stress off your heart which I see you already have at hand.

Worse comes worse I hear they can usually repair your leaflets with high success rates, which although shitty, at least you won't lose a valve and have to choose between a life of Warfarin, or getting your chest cut back open every 10-15 years to replace the biological valve.

Also, lay off the fucking stims man. Your only gonna exacerbate your condition and it very well could've been caused by excessive stimulant use to begin with, not just the APB's... as this is unrelated to 5-ht2b agonism. All the ACE inhibitors, diuretics, and beta blockers in the world won't counter any vasoconstriction, nor will it completely resolve the stress put on your heart by nasty stims like eph.

You've gotta choose, party time with stims til your valve gives in the short run, or abstain and live a better quality of life, prolonging any invasive surgeries. Although not recommended, there's plenty of other drugs that would be a better option in your situation. Be smart man, and good luck.

Torresmo(and anyone else)- I'm 21, definitely way too young to be going through this shit . Yes, my abuse was definitely irresponsible, not necessarily extreme, but remember... the actual damage to my valve is in the "mild" category a cross the board. Though categorized as "mild", it's far from insignificant and is bound to cause problems in the future due to my young age...it's just "mild" in comparison to the long term daily fenfluramine users.

Things definitely could've been worse had I kept this up or used more than I did, for example the "once a week" regimen a lot of heavy MDxx users follow. What scares me is that this damage usually doesn't cause any symptoms until the damage is severe, so there's likely a load of people with these valve issues from obsessive stimulant abuse, not just APB's, but all the substituted cathinones, and other stims with 5-ht2b activity. There was a study on 28 MDMA users and 8 of them had mitral regurgitation. Still though, it's important to keep in mind mitral regurgitation is a common valve disease and perhaps not all of those 8 got it from MDMA use.

So... if 5-ht2b is vital to the release of serotonin, what's gonna happen to the daily 4-fa users long term? We already have a report of an individual getting his valves replaced from a years worth of 2-fma, but it took a year to get to the point of near death... the damage began a lot sooner. Then the reports of chronic hypertension, and that report of cardiogenic shock from 4-FA, though there were other drugs involved like bupe and something else.

Anyways, I'm not gonna rowdy up the FA abusers but I think it's a smart Idea to have echocardiogram done if you have a history of abusing stims, releasers in particular, and if you don't have the Ki values for a substance, Don't be a retard and use it frequently... Not a smart gamble.

Blah blah, getting too long...
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The main problem isn't the valve in my case, at least not right now (who knows what my future holds), it's the pulmonary embolism... now, I don't feel comfortable blaming the APB's for this incident, as it's likely I already had a clot in my leg (that I sure didn't know of), but the embolism happened during or right after a 5-apb/6-apdb combo, as I woke up with all these symptoms, so... make of that what you will. Possibly the increase in BP/HR broke the clot free, or perhaps it was inevitable...I honestly don't know, so I won't play the blame game.

I'm really fucking lucky I'm alive, as pulmonary embolisms can easily, and frequently do cause sudden death. I'm still short of breath a lot, and I have chest pressure, and a sensation of actually feeling my lungs inflate and deflate with every breath... but I'm doing a lot better than where I was, and continuing to get better. I just hope the clot dissolves fast so I don't cause any lung scarring, iirc 13% of pulmonary embolism survivors develop pulmonary hypertension due to scarring, and this disease is probably my biggest fear in life atm.

There was a period where I was declining rapidly and essentially prepared myself for death, but now it seems it's not my time. So I'm grateful for every breath I take, have no fear of death, and you know what, sometimes shitty things like this turn out to be a blessing in disguise as I've learned to appreciate even the little things. Anyways this post is way past the TL;DR Mark.


Peace and love <3

Oh, as for your regimen Torresmo... I'd say your good, I highly doubt you would have any damage from once every two months, and your doses seem to be reasonable from what I remember. Though that doesn't mean that schedule won't cause problems if kept up for years.

I personally would spread that out a bit more to play it safe, like 2-3x a year is as far as I would take it (not that I plan on taking any more APB's any time soon, or ever perhaps, though I miss them :().
 
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What makes you think that? If anything I would expect 5HT-2b agonist induced valve fibrosis ("stiffening") would make prolapse (weakness induced floppiness) less likely.

(
 
I had a fantastic time last night with 30 mg 4-FA, 50 mg 5-MAPB and about 8 mg of 4-aco-met. The increased quantity of 4-aco-met made for a much harsher comeup than other experiences, but after a big yawn I experienced total neon colored bliss. I'd characterize the experience as a mild candy flip for the first hour to hour and a half, tapering off to a steady pleasant 5-MAPB roll that dropped off gradually and allowed me to sleep 6 hours after dosing. Felt like a sexy earth mother or something to that effect, which is typical.
 
It seems like people getting bad blues, or toxic effects from this are the people who are using more then once a month. I have a 3 month rule about substances like DOC, MDMA, APB's. and never suffer any of those mental side effects.

one more thing, with MDMA a supplemental dose (half the original dose) about 2 hours in seems to increase duration a bit without increasing intensity. pretty sure I read that in Pihkal and its always been true for me. Is this the same with 5-mapb
 
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It seems like people getting bad blues, or toxic effects from this are the people who are using more then once a month. I have a 3 month rule about substances like DOC, MDMA, APB's. and never suffer any of those mental side effects.

one more thing, with MDMA a supplemental dose (half the original dose) about 2 hours in seems to increase duration a bit without increasing intensity. pretty sure I read that in Pihkal and its always been true for me. Is this the same with 5-mapb

I don't have the chemical data to back this up, but from my experience 5 mapb is a bit different. Re-dosing will bring it full on again, without regard to the timing of the re-dose. I'm not sure why, but for me that was completely unlike mdma. I think that's what posters in the beginning-middle of the thread meant by it being moreish. They were certainly on point about that.
 
This extraordinary substance is fantastic. After 70mg orally had no effect, then a few days later 80mg had nothing, then 110mg a few days later had just a tad bit of something for like 2-3hours i was dissappointed.

So with a cautious attitude in mine. Inzo decides to insufflate 30mg around the 4hour point of the 110mg dose. Then 20min later for a reason I cannot remember ( I would say slow onset was the cause of the second line) another 30mg snorted but it sent inzo into a standing position with his head hanging kind of trance or stuppor or something. Inzo felt mildly sedated and everything got all fuzzy on inzo's body and he felt like kissing the whole world and inzo's roomate has an African Grey parrot that chirps loud pitches which always bother inzo but this time the sounds felt extremely good going into inzo's eardrums. He seemed to want the usually loud ass annoying bird chirping pitches to never stop.They felt so good. All effects lasted about 2 hours though.

Anyways, Inzo couldnt resist so the whole gram was insufflated over the course of a day and a half with excellent results. Although the last few lines were void of the entactagen quailities. Reminded him of mephdrone back before the ban. This batch of 5-MAPB was tan, brown crystals with white specs inside the brown crystals. Dont know why orally the dose wasnt right compared to other reports but insufflated seems to be the method for this chem for good ole inzo. Inzo found out that 40-70mg insufflated were the appropriate dose for him. I kept notes on each line weighed out and how frequent if anyone wants me to post them. I know very irresponsible to do the whole gram within 1 day practically but that was because inzo felt VERY little side effects. He also loved the psychedelic component of it. It made everything crystal clear with no movement. The visuals were soft, clear looking with body high very lovey dovey and fuzzy. This is definitely a gem. Although i do hear batches vary drastically. This is the the first gram of 5-MAPB Inzo has ever tested. So cant compare to others.
 
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After 10 doses in 3 months (roughly one dose every 9-10 days) I can testify to this : I'm more depressed than usual, and I'm pretty depressed normally ; but never had so many "hell is on my shoulders" kinda feelings so often.

Handle with great caution.
 
What would be the cause of the relatively extreme sedation. Where my head just wanted to hang and look down at the floor when standing up while beads of sweat are developing on my forehead but my eyes are all "wild eyed" looking and im standing there in my bathroom like "what the fuck is going on"? But feeling that deep, kind of dark euphoria and extreme sexual and fuzziness all over my body.

Its my understanding that Serotonin is the cause of the more relaxed, sedating effects while Dopamine is the euphoria and Norepinephrine is the cns stimulation. Was this sort of stupor or overwhelming reaction the cause of too much exertion on my heart or more attributed to the serotonin sedative effects or basically all of the above? Thank you for any info
 
You took too much, you said it yourself. I've mentioned it before, that re-dosing is a blessing in disguise. This isn't mdma. I mean, if you really took a whole gram, you should expect to get a few unusual, heavy effects that aren't reported very often. That's a very unsafe thing to do.

Remember to eat healthy, exercise and in general take care of yourself. Your body needs to recover. Good thing is that you'll be fine. And I'd say that stupor was simply from taking too much. Maybe a bit of delirium from taking too much of it, eg. effects were too strong for you to handle for a moment.
 
I did a combo of 75ug al-lad, 100mg of 5mapb and 15mg of mxe after drinking a good amount. It was really fun, all I did was bone my girl all night - didn't even leave my room except to grab some water.

Absolutely no hangover the next day (outside of being tired and a bit dehydrated from the ethanol).
 
After 10 doses in 3 months (roughly one dose every 9-10 days) I can testify to this : I'm more depressed than usual, and I'm pretty depressed normally ; but never had so many "hell is on my shoulders" kinda feelings so often.

Handle with great caution.
you are already depressed and you are depleting your neurotransmitters with your drug intake. what did you expect?
 
you are already depressed and you are depleting your neurotransmitters with your drug intake. what did you expect?

I know, right?

More seriously, my depression is the cause of my reckless behavior as well. The only thing I'm thankful for is that, it seems, I don't really have a long term comedown. I felt depressed for almost the whole 3 months but that's because -again, it seems- I haven't spaced my doses. It's been a few weeks now and I feel better. I've learned my lesson quick.
 
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I'm probably going to give away what I have left, since I do know some others who like this chem. I was going to save it, but I don't think it's worth saving now that I have time to reflect on it.

Bye bye, 5 mapb. And ya 5 mapb users, be safe with this one!

Edit: It took me a while to realize how pointless this stuff is when I have (and have access to) mdma. I could only say that after the fact though. I'll be experiementing with the original some time soon...again...one last time.
 
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I'm probably going to give away what I have left, since I do know some others who like this chem. I was going to save it, but I don't think it's worth saving now that I have time to reflect on it.

Bye bye, 5 mapb. And ya 5 mapb users, be safe with this one!

Edit: It took me a while to realize how pointless this stuff is when I have (and have access to) mdma. I could only say that after the fact though. I'll be experiementing with the original some time soon...again...one last time.

If you can get MD this stuff is super super redundant. I like to try things a couple of times since you can't always tell first go; maybe taking more than I did it would sparkle a bit but many say take it for what it is a high doses aren't best- It just turned me into a limp dish rag for a few hours; mongy but zero of MDs magic so I am not convinced - like you say it seems pointless
 
I'm afraid that I've overdone it, and serotonin withdrawal syndrome is looming in the near future. I plan on taking a long break from 5-mapb, but in the meantime, does anyone know an effective treatment for serotonin withdrawal? I know that if it's caused by prescribed antidepressants, you may have to get back on the drug and wean more slowly. Could this be effective with 5-mapb too? Taking small doses to counteract the withdrawal symptoms? Or is suffering through it cold turkey the only way to go?
 
For fucks sake don't take more 5mapb - haven't checked but if it's at all a releasing agent it will make it worse. Take daily 5htp. if a day or two is really bad a mild opiate or benzo might help (assuming you have no problem with either of these) - mostly you have to wait it out but don't expect it to be worse than it is; just see how you feel but don't be surprised if it is crappy a few days.
 
For fucks sake don't take more 5mapb - haven't checked but if it's at all a releasing agent it will make it worse. Take daily 5htp. if a day or two is really bad a mild opiate or benzo might help (assuming you have no problem with either of these) - mostly you have to wait it out but don't expect it to be worse than it is; just see how you feel but don't be surprised if it is crappy a few days.

Thanks for the advice. Can you please explain to me what it being a "releasing agent" has do to with anything? Please forgive my ignorance….is this in contrast to a reuptake inhibitor? As far as taking 5-HTP supplements, I used to do that until I decided to do some of my own research as to its efficacy, and I found some rather disturbing contraindications in this article:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/

It seems that 5-HTP supplementation can cause dopamine depletion, since they use the same transporter, so I stay away from it. Thanks again for the reply. I've been taking benzos to take off the edge…definitely trying not to overdo it though.
 
If you can get MD this stuff is super super redundant. I like to try things a couple of times since you can't always tell first go; maybe taking more than I did it would sparkle a bit but many say take it for what it is a high doses aren't best- It just turned me into a limp dish rag for a few hours; mongy but zero of MDs magic so I am not convinced - like you say it seems pointless

It is. I had been curious to find out just how similar this is to mdma, and it really is remarkable that whoever created this chem was able to get that close. I had done extensive reading on which to choose as a potential mdma replacement, and this one seemed to be the closest to it. But in the end, it just doesn't compare to the original. Also, like you say, it has zero magic to it. It just gets you stimulated in a similar way to mdma, with a bit of empathogenic qualities, but overall I consider 5mapb=mdma lite, diet mdma, sugar-free mdma, etc.

Yeah, I've tried it from 100-400mg at once, but still no magic. I had low expectations though, since I can't get the magic back from mdma either. But high doses of 5mapb really won't give you all that much except a stronger stimulant "high" and probably more of a body load/crash for most people. My hr/bp did rise higher in proportion to the doses, so I didn't bother going higher than that.

(Btw, if it isn't plainly obvious, I have a ridiculous stim tolerance at this stage of my life. 400mg is not a dose anyone should take unless they understand their own tolerance, know what they're doing and commit to the possible consequences that could occur.) Though I'd like to point out that even 400mg was underwhelming as well. Under normal conditions, I would've started from about 80mg to about 200mg at most after gaining some tolerance. Like myself and others pointed out, this is NOT mdma. This apb and others in its class are considered newer, more dangerous and toxic.

And on that note, that vasoconstriction is a huge...turn off.

But I still wonder if there could be combinations that would lessen the negative qualities of 5 mapb and potentiate its positive ones. I guess I'll never know. I'm not suppose to get back into mdma, but I guess I could just try rolling once a month at the most and see if I can get a strong roll. If not, then that's where it ends for me too.
 
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