(Misc. Natural Sources) - Experimenting - Harmless and Effective Herbal Ecstasy

[highhooked]

I thought this too, however there is a difference between using this combo with and without ma huang, I've tested both. I find that yes, mushrooms give the real stimulating push, however, later on once the shrooms have hit their peak levels, I notice that I'm much more inclined to sit down and trip out, whereas with ma huang I notice I'm far more motivated to dance, move about, talk, etc.. Even though the actual stimulant effect from ma huang isnt a noticable 'high', it certainly alters the high of everything else in a pleasant way. It also provides euphoric warm rushes up and down my body, I enjoy that effect a lot! The ma huang itself doesn't give a strong stimulating push, even a 200mg caffeine pill gives a more forceful speedyness to it, however I find the subtle effects of the ma huang to compliment everything else. It's understood the most powerful substances are the shrooms kratom and weed, however think of it as meat, corn and potatoes. Sure, great by themselves, but absolutely kick ass with some spices sprinkled on top!

I haven't really focused on finding a good kava kava dose for this, as it as probably far too subtle to enjoy in an intense setting. It's also quite sedating, not what I'm looking for. I've pretty much cut it out of the equation.

I have read much about ephedra, ephedrine and ma huang. To my understanding, ephedrine hcl (the synthetic version found in weight loss pills) is rather toxic to both the brain and heart in comparison to the ephedra sinica plant, aka ma huang. All are rather safe in reasonable doses, however I have read that the ma huang plant has several alkaloids in it, all of which have important effects on one and other. I can try to dig up the reference, but I read once that certain alkaloids in ma huang are actually antagonists that have protective properties and actually 'limit' the effects of the other alkaloids, thus making it safer to use (for lack of a more scientific statement). I'm not saying it's impossible to OD or cause damage with ma huang, however it appears it is far safer to use the plant in it's full form as opposed to a single synthetic ephedrine alkaloid, especially if not taken on a regular basis. This holds true for LOTS of natural substances, also a huge reason why I lean towards natural sources. Compare the safety of things like pod tea vs morphine pills, cannabis vs JWH, etc..

Very interesting stuff about the mescaline. It's certainly starting to peak my interest. The more I read, the more I feel like it might be absolutely perfect. Do you find you get strong visuals even at low doses? Or is it just euphoria? How long does it typically take to hit you? Do you know any key differences between using mescaline powder, cactus skins and cactus juice? What didn't you like about 2C-I? I absolutely loved 2C-E, the visuals blew my face off. 2C-I was almost the same thing, just a slight bit less potent however still very strong.


Thank you for all the kind replies!!

Wow you really know your shit! And it seems like you have done a bunch of research and experimentation. I was so quick to put in my 2 cents thats i didnt read all the other information you posted after the trip report. Well yea man you know what works best ha i have most experience with these seperatley anyways so im just imagining for the most part. But i mean its pretty easy for me to imagine shrooms, kratom and weed together because i have tons of experience with all 3 and frequently mix weed pluss shrooms and weed pluss kratom...each experience can be pretty intense.

I agree though on the kava...just leave it out. I have a 84percent kavalactone paste and it still doesnt have too good of an effect, cool for just hangin around though.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Thank you! I try to stay informed so I don't mess myself up. I thoroughly enjoy conducting these experiments, so I make sure to know absolutely everything I can possibly know about the things I'm ingesting. As you can see, I haven't touched mescaline yet, and don't intend to until I ask 1000 questions about it and read up on it for weeks. That's just how I roll!! (pun intended)

If you're a lover of kratom and shrooms, I highly recommend combining them. Quite a rewarding experience. The kratom and shrooms are the main ingredients here, everything else is just icing on the cake. Synergy is magical.

You are also correct about adding liquor to the mix, I sort of see that as an assumed ingredient. I am a social drinker, and it's safe to assume I will have a few drinks along side *almost* any drug experience, of course, as long as it's safe to combine. In my most recent trial, I had a couple beers and a shot of whiskey to get the ball rolling, and I feel it synergised just like everything else. The drinks helped to round out and familiarize the experience, but not enough to get me drunk.


I need to find a good way to add cannabis to the experience WITHOUT having to smoke it and without it being too sedating. Recommendations for preparation?

 

[psychomimetic]

Great thread, I'm going to get some kratom and I'm very keen on trying some of the combos you mentioned.

About mescaline- it's not toxic. At least, if you're taking 5 hr energy and alcohol in some of these combos, it's no more toxic then they are. And I don't think it's more toxic then mushrooms either.

As far as mimicking the effects of MDMA, I think that mescaline would do a lot better than mushrooms. It's a phenethylamine whereas shrooms contain tryptamines, and the feeling of mescaline is much closer to MDMA than mushrooms. Mescaline feels very similar to MDMA and is also probably my favorite psychedelic as far as trip quality and euphoria/body high. The only thing that wouldn't match up would be the long duration of mescaline.

As far as cost goes, I can see that being a problem since you live in the NW. I live in Texas and most plant stores sell San Pedros or Peruvian Torches or both and they're pretty cheap. In the city I live (Austin) there's actually even a plant store that specializes in ethnobotanicals, you might have a store like that in Seattle. Also San Pedro can be ordered online.

If you get a chance to try some cactus (which is better than pure mescaline imo btw) I'd highly recommend it as something to consider for its similarities to MDMA. Mescaline is my favorite psychedelic probably, it's great.

EDIT- About having weed without having to smoke it, there's a cannabis foods thread in CD that has a ton of great ideas for food. Or, since you're drinking anyway you could make some green dragon.

EDIT2-

Very interesting stuff about the mescaline. It's certainly starting to peak my interest. The more I read, the more I feel like it might be absolutely perfect. Do you find you get strong visuals even at low doses? Or is it just euphoria? How long does it typically take to hit you? Do you know any key differences between using mescaline powder, cactus skins and cactus juice? What didn't you like about 2C-I? I absolutely loved 2C-E, the visuals blew my face off. 2C-I was almost the same thing, just a slight bit less potent however still very strong.


Thank you for all the kind replies!!

Visuals at low doses- I find that I get a definite psychedelic change in visual perspective (was described earlier as "brightening" by yardbird which I agree with) but not really strong visuals. For your purpose I'd go for around a 9-12" of cactus, probably 200-400 mg of mescaline.

Great euphoria at low doses.

How long does it take to hit- After drinking a cup with 1-2 feet of cactus brewed into tea I'll feel effects after 45 min-1 hour, then the trip keeps building for a few hours. Generally peaking at about hour 3-4. Similar to DOx drugs if you're familiar with them.

Difference between powder, skins and cactus- There's a big one. I assume by powder you mean pure mescaline. I find that pure mescaline lacks a lot of the depth of cactus. The cacti contain a number of psychoactive alkaloids, and in most extractions all are lost except mescaline.

I've never consumed only skins. I believe the skin itself contains no mescaline, like the core. The skin is just the clear waxy stuff on the outside, not the green. The most potent layer of cactus is the bright green flesh right under the skin. If the skin is sold online it's presumably a slice that includes both the most potent and inactive layer.

I've done cactus tea in a few different ways, experimenting with ways to make it. I think the skin upsets my stomach and makes the tea harder to drink if its included, but the layer under the skin is essential. So some times I have included the skin but most of the time I would de-spine it with the shallowest possible cuts, then peeled the skin off with my nails, making sure to only remove the clear waxy layer. Then cut out the core, sliced and mashed up the remaining flesh and simmered for as long as possible (the longer the better the taste) with as little water as is necessary and some lemon juice.

Having never tried skin I can't comment on it. But I think that cactus tea is way way better than pure mescaline, and easier to get.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Great thread, I'm going to get some kratom and I'm very keen on trying some of the combos you mentioned.

About mescaline- it's not toxic. At least, if you're taking 5 hr energy and alcohol in some of these combos, it's no more toxic then they are. And I don't think it's more toxic then mushrooms either.

As far as mimicking the effects of MDMA, I think that mescaline would do a lot better than mushrooms. It's a phenethylamine whereas shrooms contain tryptamines, and the feeling of mescaline is much closer to MDMA than mushrooms. Mescaline feels very similar to MDMA and is also probably my favorite psychedelic as far as trip quality and euphoria/body high. The only thing that wouldn't match up would be the long duration of mescaline.

As far as cost goes, I can see that being a problem since you live in the NW. I live in Texas and most plant stores sell San Pedros or Peruvian Torches or both and they're pretty cheap. In the city I live (Austin) there's actually even a plant store that specializes in ethnobotanicals, you might have a store like that in Seattle. Also San Pedro can be ordered online.

If you get a chance to try some cactus (which is better than pure mescaline imo btw) I'd highly recommend it as something to consider for its similarities to MDMA. Mescaline is my favorite psychedelic probably, it's great.

EDIT- About having weed without having to smoke it, there's a cannabis foods thread in CD that has a ton of great ideas for food. Or, since you're drinking anyway you could make some green dragon.

EDIT2-


Visuals at low doses- I find that I get a definite psychedelic change in visual perspective (was described earlier as "brightening" by yardbird which I agree with) but not really strong visuals. For your purpose I'd go for around a 9-12" of cactus, probably 200-400 mg of mescaline.

Great euphoria at low doses.

How long does it take to hit- After drinking a cup with 1-2 feet of cactus brewed into tea I'll feel effects after 45 min-1 hour, then the trip keeps building for a few hours. Generally peaking at about hour 3-4. Similar to DOx drugs if you're familiar with them.

Difference between powder, skins and cactus- There's a big one. I assume by powder you mean pure mescaline. I find that pure mescaline lacks a lot of the depth of cactus. The cacti contain a number of psychoactive alkaloids, and in most extractions all are lost except mescaline.

I've never consumed only skins. I believe the skin itself contains no mescaline, like the core. The skin is just the clear waxy stuff on the outside, not the green. The most potent layer of cactus is the bright green flesh right under the skin. If the skin is sold online it's presumably a slice that includes both the most potent and inactive layer.

I've done cactus tea in a few different ways, experimenting with ways to make it. I think the skin upsets my stomach and makes the tea harder to drink if its included, but the layer under the skin is essential. So some times I have included the skin but most of the time I would de-spine it with the shallowest possible cuts, then peeled the skin off with my nails, making sure to only remove the clear waxy layer. Then cut out the core, sliced and mashed up the remaining flesh and simmered for as long as possible (the longer the better the taste) with as little water as is necessary and some lemon juice.

Having never tried skin I can't comment on it. But I think that cactus tea is way way better than pure mescaline, and easier to get.

Thank you so much for the detailed response!! Excellent info, very useful!!

Yes, MDMA is a phenethylamine so I'm not surprised mescaline would feel more similar to it than shrooms. Now I really, really need to get my hands on some. This is starting to sound absolutely essential to this combo.

Do you find that mescaline trips, even at low doses, can induce some anxiety like shrooms can? Personally, I can handle some level of psychedelic anxiety, I'm used to it and familiar with it, so when it comes I understand it and know how to overcome it. However, another reason for me putting together this combo is: Just like me, my girlfriend, as well as a lot of my immediate circle of friends used to all love MDMA, but now we shy away from it due to toxicity and impurity. I would love to be able to share this with my friends, however most of them aren't as experienced with psychs, or drugs in general, as I am. The only thing that worries me so far is that shrooms definitely give a bit of anxiety and for someone inexperienced, this can go very wrong especially if the user is out, at a club/concert, people everywhere, etc., I can see that getting bad. If mescaline has at least similar or less anxiety to shrooms, I'd say it's probably fine. However if it is more, I don't know about the whole sharing part.

I can understand how you say cactus, with all the alkaloids, is more of a fuller, deeper experience. This sounds fantastic for my own personal enjoyment, however for the sake of this combo, do you think perhaps extracted mescaline is the better choice? First of all, I have no idea how I could plan to consume 12" of cactus while out at a show, however powdered mescaline I'm sure will fit happily into capsules. Also, I would assume that powdered, extracted mescaline would hit faster as opposed to all that cactus juice and material to metabolize. If I wanted to have a full on psychedelic experience, in my home, actually intending on tripping, I would probably go for the full on cactus. However if all I want is some euphoria, moderately psychedelic state of mind, music enhancement, some visual brightening/change, maybe even some mild visuals if I'm lucky, then it sounds like extract might be what I'm after. If I'm out at a show or a rave, I might not be looking to get all THAT deep, ya know?

Do you have any experience with the 2C-x family? Is it similar at all to mescaline?

Thank you so much for your detailed response. All this information is helping me immensely!!

 

[pofacedhoe]

I've read much about mescaline being compared to MDMA, however I've also read that mescaline itself is somewhat toxic, however don't quote me on that. The purpose of this concoction is for it to be virtually harmless on the body and brain, so I'd need to be sure about it. Also, price and availability of mescaline is sort of a hurdle...

not really it can be found relatively inexpensively, if you have a dose thats mild it does feel like mdma. its great drug, only downside is the taste of cactus material

the high is ecstatic and is lacking in anxiety for those i've introduced it to. unlike shrooms and acid. you always feel aware that you're on a drug thats making you trip unlike shrooms and acid. the headfuck is minimal unless you dose excessively

 

[psychomimetic]

Thank you so much for the detailed response!! Excellent info, very useful!!

Yes, MDMA is a phenethylamine so I'm not surprised mescaline would feel more similar to it than shrooms. Now I really, really need to get my hands on some. This is starting to sound absolutely essential to this combo.

Do you find that mescaline trips, even at low doses, can induce some anxiety like shrooms can? Personally, I can handle some level of psychedelic anxiety, I'm used to it and familiar with it, so when it comes I understand it and know how to overcome it. However, another reason for me putting together this combo is: Just like me, my girlfriend, as well as a lot of my immediate circle of friends used to all love MDMA, but now we shy away from it due to toxicity and impurity. I would love to be able to share this with my friends, however most of them aren't as experienced with psychs, or drugs in general, as I am. The only thing that worries me so far is that shrooms definitely give a bit of anxiety and for someone inexperienced, this can go very wrong especially if the user is out, at a club/concert, people everywhere, etc., I can see that getting bad. If mescaline has at least similar or less anxiety to shrooms, I'd say it's probably fine. However if it is more, I don't know about the whole sharing part.

I can understand how you say cactus, with all the alkaloids, is more of a fuller, deeper experience. This sounds fantastic for my own personal enjoyment, however for the sake of this combo, do you think perhaps extracted mescaline is the better choice? First of all, I have no idea how I could plan to consume 12" of cactus while out at a show, however powdered mescaline I'm sure will fit happily into capsules. Also, I would assume that powdered, extracted mescaline would hit faster as opposed to all that cactus juice and material to metabolize. If I wanted to have a full on psychedelic experience, in my home, actually intending on tripping, I would probably go for the full on cactus. However if all I want is some euphoria, moderately psychedelic state of mind, music enhancement, some visual brightening/change, maybe even some mild visuals if I'm lucky, then it sounds like extract might be what I'm after. If I'm out at a show or a rave, I might not be looking to get all THAT deep, ya know?

Do you have any experience with the 2C-x family? Is it similar at all to mescaline?

Thank you so much for your detailed response. All this information is helping me immensely!!

This whole idea of making an MDMA alternative that is totally safe and from known sources really interests me, it's a great idea.

I've never had anxiety on mescaline, whereas mushrooms give me pretty bad anxiety most of the time that I use them. I don't like to do mushrooms very often in fact, because they make my body feel bad and give me pretty bad anxiety and I find them very cloudy headed. Mescaline strikes me as being very warm and welcoming, and much more clear headed in the high. It feels kind of like floating with a warmth in your body, whereas I would characterize the body high of mushrooms to be feeling like you are made of hyper energy trying to explode out of your skin in every direction, like being under pressure but I also feel energy shooting out of my skin. I quite enjoy the mescaline body high. I also find mescaline to be more euphoric than shrooms but in a different way, hard to explain.

One potential problem with mescaline would be nausea, the cactus often if not usually makes one throw up after an hour or two. Extracted mescaline is much, much easier on the stomach (like the difference between pharmahuasca and ayahuasca).

If you were going to brew a tea of cactus there are many teks online or I could just explain the process here. 12 " of cactus would brew into 1/2- 1 cup of tea, about 5-10 oz, depending on how long it was simmered. The hardest part about drinking the tea is the texture, it's slimy and gooey and thick like mucus if you don't simmer it a long time. When I used to do lots of mescaline I'd only simmer the tea for 45 minutes to an hour and a half, sometimes even less, and it was always thick and really hard to drink. Brewing the tea for longer takes care of that though, the longer you simmer it the thinner the drink is and the less volume you need to drink

A third option is the alcohol extraction of mescaline, for which there is a tek on shroomery (I think the same thread as the A/B mescaline extraction tek). The alcohol extraction has some benefits over the tea and the A/B extraction- it's not as pure as the A/B stuff so more alkaloids are present, providing a more full high, it's a hell of a lot easier to do than the A/B extraction, and it's a hell of a lot easier to consume than the tea. You end up with a black tar extract of mescaline which you then scrape up and roll into little balls that you can take like pills.

If you were going out to a concert or something I'd go with pure mescaline (can fit into caps or, what I would do is store some in foil then parachute the powder when desired), or drinking a tea right before leaving the house. I'd recommend experimenting with mescaline before doing it in public, due to nausea and the unusual nature of the trip.

In my experience, mescaline has more of an ability to completely change your surrounding then almost any other psychedelic, on par only with DMT and dissociatives. Like, with shrooms and acid I mostly see the normal, everyday world, it's just that everything is distorted and weird impossible sensations are happening and weird shit is going on, but it's still the same world. With mescaline I have had experiences where I was sitting down and saw the walls fall down flat around me, exposing an alien desert landscape complete with strange lifeforms hunting and fighting and flying around. It was amazing, that was my first time on mescaline. All I could do was lay there and watch in awe.

I don't have much experience with 2C-x drugs, I've only done 2C-E but I can see similarities between it and mescaline for sure. 2C-E was much speedier and harder to control, and also way less visually striking, but similarly clear headed and euphoric. The only phenethylamines I've done are 2C-E, the DO-x drugs (which I'm fairly experienced with), mescaline and MDMA. I haven't done MDMA or 2C-E much, but I've done a lot of the other two. Mescaline isn't very speedy, I actually always found the body high to be weirdly relaxing, more in a way that made me feel stunned and made it difficult to move then a sense of relaxation like weed or a few drinks would provide. The main similarity between mescaline, 2C-E and the DO-x drugs is the thought patterns experienced, very weird.

The high from mescaline is probably the easiest to handle and most downright enjoyable of any of the psychedelics I've done except dissociatives. If someone asked me what to take as a first psychedelic there's no question that I would recommend mescaline. It's a very welcoming, enjoyable drug and provides a bit of that lovey phenthylamine quality that they seem to have. Like a warm blanket of psychedelia.

I don't have very much experience with low dose mescaline, although I've done it a few times. Generally when I've done mescaline I've brewed several feet into tea to share with a friend or two, and after doing the work required to make tea (several hours of labor) I've always wanted a full dose. All but a couple of my low dose experiences were unintentional.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

You are so helpful, thank you!!

2C-E was my first psychedelic, and I found it to be mind-blowingly visual, speedy, and rather easy to control. The only downside was the uncomfortable, anxious body load. Aside from that, it was the perfect drug. The visuals alone would keep me entertained for hours and hours. Nothing else I've tried has even come close to touching the visuals of 2C-E. So vivid and energized, like there was a driving force behind them. Shroom visuals are mild and very organic, everything seems to kind of move around and distort as one entity. With 2C-E, for example I was watching some scattered clouds in the night sky, and they were all swirling around independently in the sky like flower petals being flushed down a toilet, and it was SO VIVID that it looked like it was actually happening. The same thing would happen to the speckled design on my counter top, each individual speck would move around on it's own trajectory. No to mention how BRIGHT and vivid colors were, and how light on a wall appeared like it was reflecting off water...absolutely mind blowing. If mescaline looks anything like this, I just might cry.

2C-E was everything but relaxing. I felt it to be very edgy, anxious, somewhat uncomfortable. However, on the flipside, laying down and listening to music would encapsulate my entire body in a euphoria that I could not compare to anything else I've ever tried. Only if I layed down, forgot about the outside world, and focused on the music. Otherwise it wouldn't happen and I'd just be edgy.

Good advice for trying mescaline at home at first. I am this way with ABSOLUTELY ANY drug I try for the first couple of times. Combos as well, even with drugs I'm experienced with, I always try them at home first, with a sitter and zero obligations the rest of the day....just in case!!


I might try to order some san pedro cuttings and make my own extract. I absolutely jumping out of my seat to try mescaline now...

Thank you so much for your detailed responses, it helps immensely!!!

 

[dcraver877]

kanna+kava+l-theanine=bliss

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Kanna, there's one I'd like to try again. I had some of it a while back, and found the effects to be interesting. Not bad, not good, interesting... I tried smoking as well as insufflating. Effects are present but it's hard to tell what's really going on. I really would like to get my hands on some quality kanna again. Perhaps it would be a good additive to this? It could also be a bad one too, I read it's an SSRI and that might not jive with the other serotonin agonists I'm using. Then again, it might...

Could you elaborate on your experience with it? I'm very interested.

 

[psychomimetic]

One other thing I forgot to mention is L-Phenylalanine. Stuff feels pretty similar to amphetamine, so if you were looking for something to add a speedy, euphoric edge it could play a good role.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

One other thing I forgot to mention is L-Phenylalanine. Stuff feels pretty similar to amphetamine, so if you were looking for something to add a speedy, euphoric edge it could play a good role.

Interesting. Is this available at a local drug store? Or does it have to be ordered? Don't give me an actual source, that's against the rules, just tell me if it's OTC available or not.

Is it natural? My searches are proving inconclusive. There seems to be a few different flavors of 'Phenylalanines'. Does it actually have a euphoric/stimulating effect? Is it dangerous to mix with anything else?

 

[psychomimetic]

^Yeah it's totally legal, I get it at the natural grocery store in my area, generally health food stores and stuff sell it as a supplement, but like everything else it's cheaper online.

It is indeed natural, although most of the stuff sold as supplements is probably synthetic. It's an amino acid that humans have in our bodies and need to consume to survive though. Just looked it up and found that Phenylalanine is found in plants, but I don't know if that's where they get the stuff for the pills from. Check it out, this briefly talks about it in plants- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylalanine#In_plants

The different isomers are interesting and very different. L-Phenylalanine is the one I meant, it's the closest I've ever felt to being on amphetamine without taking any amphetamines. I used to take it daily and it'd make me feel great and give me nice energy and didn't have any negative side effects, even after a few months of daily use.

D-Phenylalanine is very similar to opiates in how it feels, but much more mild. It gives you a peaceful, relaxed, warm type feeling, and works great for potentiating opiates.

I don't think Phenyalanine is dangerous when combined with anything, it's an essential amino acid so all of us eat it anyway. In fact, if you look at a pack of gum it's often listed as an ingredient with a warning for people with Phenylketonuria (allergy) not to take it due to phenyalanine.

The L isomer would probably be best for your purposes.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

VERY interesting!!! They both sound interesting. I have to give this a try.

Regarding kanna, check out this experience I just had with it!! http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...ria-and-pupil-saucers?p=10114748#post10114748

 

[mad_scientist]

Interesting idea. The first thing that occurred to me was that all your ingredients can be made as an extract in alcohol - I've certainly had good alcoholic extracts of kava, kratom, mushrooms and cannabis, and no reason ma huang or mate tea can't be alcoholic. I wonder if you could get the ratios right for a super awesome herbal high extract liqueur, and get it tasting ok. As for other ingredients, mescaline is probably a good suggestion, the alkaloid mix from san pedro is more stimulant than the more pure mescaline from peyote imo. Would highly recommend khat or coca leaf to supplement or replace the ma huang but appreciate they are harder to get. Also I too think kanna would add well to this blend.

 

[seanmichaels]

Hopefully this brings the attention of people who had experience with this post in the past. I am going to a show this weekend, and I was looking for something similar to MDMA. This is where I've been led to.

Here the plan: Kratom, L-Phenylalanine, Kava Kava, Caffeine, Vitamin C, and possibly Tyrosine

A couple of hours before the concert I was going to drink a vitamin c pack. On cab ride over, was going to take 10mg of Kratom capsules. Right before entering the show, I was going to take 1 500mg L-Phenylalanine capsule (save another one for a couple hours later). Take 2 250mg Kava Kava capsules (only 30% kavalactones and save one for a couple hours later). Down a five hour energy. This all before going in, and leave a few capsules to take during the show, as mentioned before.

I am also thinking of adding Tyrosine, as it is a precursor of dopamine and noradrenaline.

Let me know what you guys think. This is my first time trying this. Have until Saturday the 25 to hear your guys' comments, then I was going to report back on my experience.

EDIT: I just like to add, I know this will be nothing quite like MDMA. I am a pretty happy, let go, give in dancer at electronic shows sober, and I'm just looking for something that will give me some extra push in enjoying.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Hopefully this brings the attention of people who had experience with this post in the past. I am going to a show this weekend, and I was looking for something similar to MDMA. This is where I've been led to.

Here the plan: Kratom, L-Phenylalanine, Kava Kava, Caffeine, Vitamin C, and possibly Tyrosine

A couple of hours before the concert I was going to drink a vitamin c pack. On cab ride over, was going to take 10mg of Kratom capsules. Right before entering the show, I was going to take 1 500mg L-Phenylalanine capsule (save another one for a couple hours later). Take 2 250mg Kava Kava capsules (only 30% kavalactones and save one for a couple hours later). Down a five hour energy. This all before going in, and leave a few capsules to take during the show, as mentioned before.

I am also thinking of adding Tyrosine, as it is a precursor of dopamine and noradrenaline.

Let me know what you guys think. This is my first time trying this. Have until Saturday the 25 to hear your guys' comments, then I was going to report back on my experience.

EDIT: I just like to add, I know this will be nothing quite like MDMA. I am a pretty happy, let go, give in dancer at electronic shows sober, and I'm just looking for something that will give me some extra push in enjoying.

Interesting choices, I'm curious to know how this turned out for you!

What does the L-Phenylalanine do for you?

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Anyone following me on this subject, you might be interested in this recent trip report: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/614221-Kratom-Kanna-Coca-Cannabis-Experienced-Nature-s-Ecstasy

 

[OTGee]

I have to second the idea of mescaline being added, this combination is just sounding too awesome to be true. Maybe you could try combining the mesc. + shrooms if you wanted to go a little deeper as well. I hope I get this job I got an interview for on monday so I can gte a pay check then start experimenting on all of this stuff myself, im not even looking for solely mdma like, il jsut try to find some interesting combinations. Keep working on this shit man, your doing some great work

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

I have to second the idea of mescaline being added, this combination is just sounding too awesome to be true. Maybe you could try combining the mesc. + shrooms if you wanted to go a little deeper as well. I hope I get this job I got an interview for on monday so I can gte a pay check then start experimenting on all of this stuff myself, im not even looking for solely mdma like, il jsut try to find some interesting combinations. Keep working on this shit man, your doing some great work

Thanks! My intent is not to duplicate/mimic the MDMA effect either. I simply want to create an experience based on different effects from different sources, like a recipe for an awesome layer cake! It would be foolish to expect anything in nature to give a similar effect.....however one does not rule out the possibility.

I can't wait to get my hands on some mescaline!!

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

I was abducted by aliens last night and they told me to re-initiate this thread. My experimentation has not ceased and I've definitely gotten closer, more educated and more satisfying results since my last post. Still no mescaline, though I did obtain san pedro cactus that I cannot wait to dive into.

Regarding some of the original corner-stones in this whole operation:

Kratom continues to be the main ingredient as always BUT has shifted in importance and role. My tolerance is ridiculously, insanely high as I use it twice every day, but it still works for me. I would imagine for the mostly-intolerant person, kratom itself could be all a person would need to feel ecstatic in a social situation. It sure effected me that way when I first started it, any interaction with friends was like Christmas morning! Simply add something to brighten colors, enhance the music and give a bit more motivation to move around, even dance, and that right there could potentially be an MDMA competitor!! There's another lovely herb that does ALL of that, and does it well....

...KANNA has proven to be extremely important in all of this, maybe more important than the kratom (I'll explain why). Not only does it seem to potentiate absolutely everything, it's solo effects are some of the most reliable and covers almost everything I'm looking for in this experiment. 1-1.5g down the hatch has given me shivery/tingly come-ups and little short blasts of euphoria, enough to surpass placebo. There is a remarkable reverse-tolerance effect, the brain seems to grow fond of kanna and likes it more and more as time goes on. The oral effect is way better than smoking, very different too. Smoking a bowl of cannabis & kanna while drunk on alcohol turns the drunk into more of a stimulated, empathetic high....VERY enjoyable and blows solo alcohol out of the water. Pretty sure it reduces/prevents hangovers too, I'm guessing from whatever it does to your serotonin system. Don't over-do it though, too much kanna, especially smoked, is headache-city. While tripping on mushrooms in any dose, kanna potentiates them and seems to sort of re-peak the trip, and also adds a lovely layer of MDMA-like euphoria and empathy.

Kava and I have gotten a lot friendlier as of late. Granted the current way I consume kava isn't ideal for a night out, the effect has been mostly a good contributor. Combined with kanna the effect is very euphoric and somewhat trippy, yet still focused. Great body high and the social lubrication is awesome, on par with alcohol without the 'drunk' or loss-of-inhibition. Potentially a bit too sedating though. With the right gentle stimulants to counter the sedation, the other effects would be a lot of fun for a night out.

My beloved coca leaves have fallen unavailable. I can't get them anymore, which is extremely unfortunate. That was by far the best stimulant I've ever consumed. I could not WAIT to try a crude extract, but alas, no mas. :-( Khat is pretty much impossible, especially for a white boy on the US west coast like me. Sounds friggin' perfect though. Even trying to find a khat (essentially cathinone) extract would probably be just as illegal/effective as trying to buying straight amphetamine online. Ma Huang just doesn't hold up, even kanna is better.

Mushrooms are where it is currently really at. I've had experience after experience with alcohol and mushrooms that has been rivaling some of my best MDMA experiences in euphoria and overall fun. Alcohol sucks though, however without it, it's just a mushroom trip, and the effect is mostly just psychedelic and anxious. That's where the other herbs come in. Kratom, kanna, kava, cannabis, all contribute to that recreational, euphoric, pleasurably grounded effect to reel the mushroom's crazy psychedelic effects in, and just keep it recreationally psychedelic and stimulating. However, once your body gets used to the psilocybin, it becomes the most pleasurable effect and the other herb's effects diminish, and become either insignificant or distracting, because all I seem to want at that point is more psilocybin......or alcohol


I have to run, literally. Gotta catch a bus and my computer is forcing a restart. I have a lot more to add regarding the psilocybin as well as other, new things that are being added to this combo. It's really exciting!