(Misc. Natural Sources) - Experimenting - Harmless and Effective Herbal Ecstasy

[Seattle_Stranger]

I didn't know if I should put this in trip reports, my intent is not so much for it to be a trip report, I'm looking to discuss the concoction and what you all think about it! I'm also interested to hear other folk's accounts on similar combos, as well as suggestions. I know I've had a couple discussions on this topic in the past on Bluelight, but there seems to be much interest in the subject, and this thread is an update with lots of info.

In short, I'm absolutely sick of harmful and shady synthetic street powders and pills, and have made a self conversion to only ingesting natural things in the spirit of healthy recreation. I've decided that herbs and plants agree more with my body chemistry. I'm not looking to start the whole "natural vs synthetic' discussion so please don't bother trying to lecture me about how I'm an idiot for thinking natural substances are better. I never said they're better, I said they work better for me and I simply feel more comfortable about taking something that grew from the Earth. YMMV.

Having said that, I've been in search of a combination of herbs and such that will produce desirable effects for a night of dancing and socializing without causing neurotoxicity and not having to wonder about the 'purity' of whatever it is I'm taking. I have done quite a few experiments with combinations of natural substances, all of which have verifiable and traceable sources, so it's easy for me to know literally EXACTLY what I'm getting, there is no question at all of what I'm ingesting. I don't have to worry about cuts, impurities, adulterants, dangerous additives, nothing. This alone is one of the biggest reasons I go natural, is because I hate the thought of taking a pill/powder and not really being 100% sure of everything that's in there, even with a test kit.

So far, the ingredients in my concoction are as follows, in various dosages, used for the denoted effects:

Kratom (various strains) - Euphoria, stimulation, empathy, anxiety relief
Ma Huang - Stimulation, wakefulness, alertness, visual sharpening
Caffeine - Stimulation, wakefulness
Kava Kava - Anxiety relief, empathy, minor color enhancement
Mushrooms - Color/visual enhancement, music enhancement, tactile enhancement, psychedelic mindset
Cannabis - Anxiety relief, round out the effects of everything else

I have experimented with all of these substances in their most natural forms, no extracts, tinctures, synthetic versions. These are all being ingested in their full form, ground into powder. The only exception is caffeine, which was ingested in various forms including No-Doz, yerba mate, coffee, as well as 5hr energy shots.

So far, here are my experiences using these substances together. Note that I don't always combine ALL of these ingredients, but ultimately my intent is to combine them all in the right proportions. Also, it should just be assumed I smoked weed at some point either before, during or after the experience because I smoke daily and it's pretty much normal. Ultimately I would like to make some sort of oral application for the cannabis for use with this combo, so it can be consumed discreetly.

First Test - 8g bali kratom, ~1.5g mushrooms, 2 cups of coffee
Trip report: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...rienced-Experimenting-for-an-MDMA-alternative
Basic recap: Sparked a huge interest in this combo. Feeling the synergy between the kratom and mushrooms made me realize that it's definitely possible to get an E-like experience from safe and natural sources. The way I felt on this combo was comparable to MDA. I've taken MDA with my friends in the exact same location and setting (my basement) and honestly, due to the addition of strong visuals from the shrooms, this was more enjoyable. MDA was fun, but this honestly took the cake.

Second test - Caffeine (5hr energy shot), 8g bali kratom, ~1.5g mushrooms
Trip report here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...rst-time-combined-For-adrenaline-junkies-only!!
Basic recap: Huge boost of energy for the whole night. Slight anxious come up, but subsided within the hour. Mildly euphoric and comfortable, slight color/light enhancement, definite audio enhancement, good starting point. The comfortable amount of energy I had for dancing was the best part. It was really satisfying to watch people go from sober to rolling to coming down over the course of the night, all the while I was high the whole time.

Third test - ~3g ma huang, 1.5g mushrooms
This time I got my hands on some ma huang and was excited to try some with shrooms. I drank down the ephedra tea and noticed all the expected effects. I took the mushrooms a couple hours later, again just a very small amount. I went walking with friends (who had just dropped LSD for the first time) and noticed a very pleasurable jolt of energy. Walking was effortless, I felt like I had springs on my shoes. Dancing sounded fun, but this wasn't a dancing kind of night. Visuals were subtle but existent, just color/light brightening, no real distortion or OEV's, just enhancement, which is more or less what I want. Remember, this is supposed to be for a night out, dancing, socializing, doing stuff, not sitting in a chair tripping balls, so I've been keeping the shroom dosages low. The energy kick was intriguing enough to try doubling the ma huang dose.

Fourth test - ~6g ma huang
Trip report: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/590233-Ma-Huang-(Ephedra)-Inexperienced-quot-Dude-you-rollin-quot
Basic recap: Not as pushy of a stimulation as I would expect, however still had strong effects. Definite present euphoria and wakefulness, pupil dilation and light brightening, very clean high compared to adderall. People compare ephedra to amphetamine, however I'd say the ephedra is far less 'tweaky'. It was energy that was there to use if I wanted to, not energy I absolutely had to use. I also had no trouble sleeping too.

Fifth Test - 7g bali kratom, 2g thai maeng da kratom, caffeine pill (200mg), kava kava, <1g mushrooms, alcohol
This took place this past weekend. I consumed all of the above ingredients as well as drank alcohol throughout the night. I was all out of ma huang otherwise I would have taken that too. Basically all the same results happen again, slightly anxious onset, followed by euphoria and pleasant, comfortable stimulation all night, subtle light brightening/color saturation, music enhancement, euphoric and giddy mood, happy, energetic, social, just all around great experience. We hopped from bar to bar and ended up at a large club, dancing to house music. I had absolutely zero anxieties on the dancefloor, held my hands over my head and just danced. Closing my eyes and then reopening them in the crowd triggered entertaining visual and mental responses in conjunction with the lights and music. I also remember getting a nod of aknowledgement from some random guy who was very obviously rolling. Perhaps my pupils were dilated and he thought I was on E too? Maybe it was my body language saying I felt free and happy? All I know is that this combo is really shaping up to be worth it!


I should be getting more ma huang soon and I plan to continue experimenting until I find the right proportions to make REAL herbal ecstasy! As you can see above, all I have been getting are subtle but glowing experiences. Except for the very first experiment, I haven't gotten to a completely ecstatic state yet, however it's on the horizon. The subtle euphoria, lights getting brighter, music enhancement, and just the overall feel for the experience makes for a really fun twist to any night without the worry of neurotoxicity, come downs or hangovers! There is zero come down to speak of with this combo, it's very gentle and forgiving. As long as you don't overdo the shrooms, you won't trip out or have an anxiety attack, you'll simply just get some audio enhancement and a brightening of colors in the same way MDMA would.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Anyone have similar combos/experiences/goals?

Thanks for reading!!

 

[nAON]

Might be worth looking into khat. It's a herbal stimulant, contains cathinone. Coca leaves, too, might be something to look into.

 

[Jabberwocky]

i'm sorry to have to do this to such a long, thought out post. but, what you're wanting to achieve/ask isn't permitted per the BDD guidelines - we're not here to assist in helping you concoct your own cocktail to mimic the effects of another. that goes for any threads asking : can i get high on this, how to get high on this, is this a good combo, etc. you see what i'm getting at.

pm me if you've any queries.

 

[xburtonchic]

BDD > Trip Reports.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Thanks for moving it XBC, I appreciate it big time!


I have read up on khat, and I also have some experience with mephedrone. It sounds like the PERFECT addition to this, especially if the effects are anything like meph. The problem is that it seems to be next to impossible to obtain. Same goes for coca leaves. For now, I'll have to stick with ma huang for strong stimulation, unless I can somehow source some khat, or something better!

One thing that I've noticed, is that kratom seems to slightly inhibit the effects of the mushrooms. One particular recent experiment, I had a real nice mushroom buzz going after a day of hiking. Later on in the trip, after the peak, I had some kratom. I felt as if the kratom made me completely come down, grounded the trip and killed nearly all visuals. I don't know if it was simply a timing thing, and the shrooms actually did wear off at that point, however it was pretty coincidental that I started feeling the kratom, and stopped feeling the shrooms, all at the same time.

I suppose the only thing to do is to trying taking shrooms and kratom at the exact same time, and seeing what happens. So far, they've been slightly staggered in all my experiements, with me usually taking the kratom and then the shrooms within the hour. I always feel the kratom, then the shroom effect creeps in. I've also noticed that when I take shrooms alone, the visuals are brighter and more intense than when I have kratom in my system.


Does anyone have a lot of experience mixing stimulants with shrooms? Do you find that stimulants increase visuals? Do you feel like stims change the shroom trip, as opposed to just giving added energy? Back when I tried 2C-E, and also when I had MDA, I noticed the moving-pattern visuals on walls and such seemed much more 'energized' for lack of a better word. For example, on shrooms, if a pattern moves it's usually a very organic kind of movement, seemingly in sync with my bloodflow and pulse. However, on MDA, I remember seeing patterns moving as if they were on a conveyor belt, very motivated, flowing and powered like there was a driving force behind the visuals. Does anyone feel that adding a stimulant to mushrooms could produce similar 'energized' visual results?

Now here's where I really reach.....is there a known way to increase the visual aspect of mushrooms, without intensifying the trip itself? I believe it to be possible somehow, because recently, I was on a hike, walking up a mountain for hours, adrenaline PUMPING LIKE MAD through my veins, and while in this highly-adrenal state, I ate two caps and stems. The result was a literally ~10 minute onset with extremely vivid visuals, but barely any 'trippyness' in my mind at all. After coming back down off the mountain, I was seeing some of the most intense shroom visuals I've ever seen, but still, only slightly trippyness. It was perfect for this...

Ultimately, I'd love to be able to trigger a similar visual experience without having to climb a mountain first.

 

[yardbirdrc]

you should incorporate some cactus experiments in these trials - closest thing to mdma that comes out of the ground. also maybe calamus? it's supposed to have a precursor to mmda in it, which isn't exactly mdma but its somewhat similar i guess.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

I've read much about mescaline being compared to MDMA, however I've also read that mescaline itself is somewhat toxic, however don't quote me on that. The purpose of this concoction is for it to be virtually harmless on the body and brain, so I'd need to be sure about it. Also, price and availability of mescaline is sort of a hurdle...

 

[xburtonchic]

As far as mixing stims with shrooms, I find it seems to be hit or miss. Some people really seem to enjoy it, but for others it adds an edge of paranoia and that, of course, accounts for a really bad trip. Nothing worse than being caught in a shroom loop. This is with synthetic stimulants though... natural stims might be different, since you're mixing two natural substances. I don't know why, but it just seems to make sense. I'd go slow with it though, just in case. You seem to know what you're doing, but still... bad trips are never a good time.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

As far as mixing stims with shrooms, I find it seems to be hit or miss. Some people really seem to enjoy it, but for others it adds an edge of paranoia and that, of course, accounts for a really bad trip. Nothing worse than being caught in a shroom loop. This is with synthetic stimulants though... natural stims might be different, since you're mixing two natural substances. I don't know why, but it just seems to make sense. I'd go slow with it though, just in case. You seem to know what you're doing, but still... bad trips are never a good time.

This this this!!! See, that's my exact standpoint. People will argue with me up and down on how naturals are no better than synthetics, however it's the simple accounts like this that make me lean towards natural stuff. It just seems to work right!! Synthetic drugs just don't seem to agree with the (my) body the way natural things do.

Kratom and pods get me off hard, every time, reliably, even on a daily regimen. Oxycodone? Sometimes I don't even feel oxy, even when insufflated, and when I do I feel like it's an 'incomplete' buzz compared to kratom. Yep, I said it!

Ma huang obviously is proving to be a miracle plant as well, just read my accounts on it in this thread! Adderall gives similar effects, however it also comes with all sorts of awful side effects like anxiety, heart palpitations and a horrible come down! Ma huang is yet to give me an effect I'd classify as negative, besides maybe some minor constipation. Big deal...

I could go on forever comparing natural substances to similar synthetics and how the natural ones always work better, however it's redundant and maybe just be unique to my body.


Here's another test:

~12g kratom (various strains), 5g ma huang, < 0.2g mushrooms (golden teachers), cannabis, alcohol

Just the other night I went to play music with some friends. They asked me to bring shrooms for a fun trippy jam session. So in anticipation of this evening, I got home from work and drank down 5g of ground ma huang tea, grounds and all. I waited around for about an hour and YES! Expected subtle amphetamine-like effects take hold, including a very interesting trail effect not unlike MDMA!! I remember times when I was rolling, and someone would wave around a glowstick and it would have a delayed trail behind it in my vision. The ephedrine was inducing the same visionary effect and I could see it as I was walking around my house. I also had some mild euphoria and a lovely sense of AWAKE. Not like caffeine where it's jittery, forceful awake feeling, this was more full bodied, naturally awake kind of feeling. VERY pleasant, but still subtle. I can't help but wonder what a high dose of ma huang would be like, maybe ~8g? I'm deathly afraid of the dreaded over-stimulated ephedrine feelings I've read about. A stimulant overdose is a very scary thing to me. I took too much propylhexadrine once, and that was TERRIBLE!!!

So after an hour or so I felt that the effects were about plateuing, and I decided to load up on kratom too. I had already had some earlier in the day, about 8g. I took all sorts of strains I had laying around including super green bali (my fav), thai maeng da, thai stem and vein, 20x indo extract and even a very tiny amount of kava kava (most likely an insignificant dose). When I arrived at our practice space, we hung out, had a beer and a few bowls, and everyone nommed some shrooms. I had one very tiny mushroom stem and cap as I had work in the morning and wasn't trying to get too silly. We jammed for a long time as we started to feel the shrooms. After a while we decided to eat more, so I had another very tiny one. After that finally took hold, I evaluated my mental state as all the different substances were swimming around in my brain. I felt really, really good, comfortable, happy, excited, awake, alive!! I looked in the mirror and noticed my eyes were pin-pointed, probably from the excessive amount of kratom I took, and was also probably contributing to the barely-there shroom visuals. We went outside and everything looked pretty sharp and vivid, and slightly deeper in color. The rest of the night, all effects stayed about the same except the cannabis which always wears off quickly.

I should also mention that I notice there is virtually no come down, and effects, while subtle, usually last well into the next day (for me at least). It reminds me of when I first started experimenting with MDMA, and I'd keep getting rushes of euphoria the whole next day after.

Everything was almost perfect, I just needed this to be every so slightly stronger in the shroom and ephedra department, and slightly less on the kratom. Also, I need to try ingesting everything at once, when I get all the proportions right!! I'm really getting close here!! The dosages I had this night was almost just right, so perhaps a tad less kratom and a tad more shroom, and everything taken all at once, I think would have given the desired effects.

This is fun!!

Thanks for reading!

 

[xburtonchic]

I think the argument against natural vs. synthetics comes from the fact that you don't REALLY know how potent the substance you're taking is. And some can be just as addictive as synthetic substances. There are a couple documented cases of poppy overdoses out there, usually teenagers who aren't quite sure what they're doing, but still. Natural alternatives are way better on the body, though, that's for sure. At the very least you know what you're ingesting is pure, and not laced with a bunch of synthetic chemicals and fillers.

 

[yardbirdrc]

I've also read that mescaline itself is somewhat toxic

I think you heard wrong my friend, its supposed to be one of the least toxic drugs out there. I can't find any specific journals supporting that right now but its pretty widely believed. Poke around the erowid research vault on it if you feel so inclined.

Also, price and availability of mescaline is sort of a hurdle...

This is true, although for me anyway shrooms are much more expensive per dose. If you grow your own then you may have a different scenario.

 

[xburtonchic]

The song "Arabian Nights on Mescaline" by Infected Mushroom... it makes me feel high just listening to it. Even though I've never tried mescaline. But even though the song only has a few words at the beginning and is mostly instrumental, the way it sounds really makes me want to try it! You should look it up if you're a mescaline fan

EDIT: I'm listening to it now. It's amazing. Seriously, listen to it. Do it now. And then tell me if it actually "describes" mescaline's effects, cause I've always been curious. God, I love this song.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

That's so funny you mention Infected Mushroom, I'm attending their live show tonight in Seattle!!! :D Frickin' stoked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Listening to that song right now, loving it so far! I might have heard this one before, not sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9poJ_UP2kks

Mescaline isn't toxic? Wow, that's good news. Mescaline is accessible for me, but not quite as easy as shrooms. I might have to just try some to try some (I've wanted to anyway). So many people are saying it's the closest thing to MDMA as you can get. I'm intrigued!!! Also, I've heard there are huge differences between extracted (powder) mescaline, and actual cactus juice. Does it have amphetamine-like stimulation, or do you think I'll still want to add a stim? Could the effects be compared to other phens like 2C-E? 2C-E and 2C-I were absolutely nothing like MDMA even though for some reason I've seen people compare them.

Some of the things that drive me away from mescaline is the fact that for one it apparently takes forever to hit you, (I remember 2C-E taking ~2.5 hours) and also I heard that throwing up is nearly inevitable. Again, this is only what I've read/heard, I could be wrong!

I think the argument against natural vs. synthetics comes from the fact that you don't REALLY know how potent the substance you're taking is. And some can be just as addictive as synthetic substances. There are a couple documented cases of poppy overdoses out there, usually teenagers who aren't quite sure what they're doing, but still. Natural alternatives are way better on the body, though, that's for sure. At the very least you know what you're ingesting is pure, and not laced with a bunch of synthetic chemicals and fillers.

This is a huge reason why I lean natural. Especially most of the plants and herbs I use come from sources I personally know. I'm even friends with my kratom vendor, we talk regularly and he's pretty much given me all the info I need to know that I'm getting the absolute best kratom available on the net, as well as kava and some others. My friend grows all his mushrooms in his bedroom, in a very controlled environment, so I know 101% for sure that the shrooms I get are good, not poisonous, and I even know what strains they are, so I can eliminate all anxieties of "OMG were those poison shrooms!?". Try to find that luxury on the street! Also, it's fair to say that it's pretty impossible to cut things like shrooms, weed, cactus, etc., unless you're a complete dumbass and don't know what you're looking at, which then in that case you deserve to be sold 3.5 grams of oregano..

Also, a lot of synth fans like to play on the fact that it's impossible to judge potency of naturals and you always are risking your drugs being too potent or too weak. This is only half true though, because if you have a brand new batch of, let's say pods, and you have no idea how potent they are. One pod could be weak, while another is extremely potent. Well, what you do is FIRST grind up all your pods and mix them together like a powder, so that way all alkaloids are spread evenly and equally throughout the entire batch and won't vary from pod to pod. Then take a very small tester dose from the powder, usually an amount that wouldn't get you high. Judge potency accordingly, and you can be fairly certain the rest of the batch is just as potent because remember, you powdered and mixed it all together so it will be even. And even so, this holds JUST AS TRUE for synthetics (especially street powders and pills) because you still have absolutely no idea how potent a new batch is and should ALWAYS take a very small test dose of ANY drug you get a new batch of. It's just common sense, and is not limited to natural substance use!!

I type a lot, don't I....

 

[xburtonchic]

I'm a fan of both synthetic AND natural. I guess I don't have a preference. It sounds like you're hella smart with your usage, so that's good - I think what you do with the pods is a really great idea. I wish more people would take the time to do their research and figure these things out before they ingested things. And I've ALWAYS been a fan of "take it slow"... with anything. Yeah, it might be a "waste", but it's better to waste a little bit of powder/flowers/leaves/liquid/whatever than to wake up in the ER wondering wtf happened... or worse...

Hahah I write a lot too. I've tried to tone it down though, so that if I'm saying something important people won't miss it. My blogs, however, are a different story hah. But yeah, don't worry about the length. Your posts are really well-thought out and informative imo.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

I'm a fan of both synthetic AND natural. I guess I don't have a preference. It sounds like you're hella smart with your usage, so that's good - I think what you do with the pods is a really great idea. I wish more people would take the time to do their research and figure these things out before they ingested things. And I've ALWAYS been a fan of "take it slow"... with anything. Yeah, it might be a "waste", but it's better to waste a little bit of powder/flowers/leaves/liquid/whatever than to wake up in the ER wondering wtf happened... or worse...

Hahah I write a lot too. I've tried to tone it down though, so that if I'm saying something important people won't miss it. My blogs, however, are a different story hah. But yeah, don't worry about the length. Your posts are really well-thought out and informative imo.

Thanks a lot, I'm really glad you like my writing! I just love Bluelight and I have a lot to say! Especially subjects like this, where else can I have full on in depth discussions about things like herbal ecstasy?

I think personal caution and safety is essential if you're going to play this game. You're right, I wish more people would take such an initiative to be smart about it, perhaps substance experimentation wouldn't be so demonized if majority of users were regarded as responsible.

I have conducted another experiment, and this time, I think I nailed it!! It was absolutely perfect, I didn't want a drop more of any substance. The show was dynamite and the effects of the drugs all came together perfectly. If you gave me a capsule, said it was molly, and I took it and it produced a high like I experienced last night, I would've believed it was clean, mediocre potency MDMA. It was by far a better high than I've experienced in the past with some of the 'molly' and E pills I've had. It was just...perfect!

~5.5g ma huang, ~15g kratom (various strains), < 1g mushrooms, cannabis, alcohol, caffeine

I started off with a 4.5g cup of ma huang tea, swallowed most of the grinds and all. It produced the expected effects again, stimulation, mild euphoric rushes, focus, and also the subtle trailing effect I've become a fan of. About an hour or so after this, I ate 8g of bali kratom. Began drinking a beer. Shortly after this I ate a very tiny mushroom cap, probably weighing less than .1. I started feeling the effects of this one little cap, smoked a bowl with roommate, ate another cap and stem. Waited about 30 minutes, felt the effects increase, ate another tiny cap and stem smoked another bowl, finished my beer, added 1g of ma huang to the old grinds from earlier, made a to go cup of tea and drank it in the car on the way to the show (I was not driving!). All of the shrooms so far probably equaled ~0.5g.

I slowly felt the effects of everything building as we arrived at the show. We found our way to the bar where I ordered a beer and a water. I drank the beer, drank another, and also had a shot of whiskey. I felt like effects were plateauing at this point, some minor color enhancement, music enhancement, feeling fairly 'emotionally exaggerated'. I took some time to people watch (as I always do at raves), and felt the emotions of all the people I watched. I saw one guy who obviously had too much of something, was sitting in a chair gripping a cup of water with 'that look' on his face. I started to feel bad for him, I was able to relate completely to his "why did I take so much" mindset, I almost wanted to go sit with him! I was feeling awake, mildly euphoric, comfortable and excited about the show. I started watching other people, happier folks, all the raver kids swinging glow sticks around and playing with their gloves, happy as hell, and I started feeding off this big time.

The main act was about to begin, so I made my way to the bathroom. At this point I swallowed 100mg caffeine, a ~600mg capsule of 20x kratom extract (hard to gauge how much plain leaf kratom this was equivalent to), and took a big bite out of a quarter-sized mushroom cap, most likely just under .5g of mushroom was chewed and swallowed. As the main act began, this is where things really took off. Over the next half hour, time started to severely slow down and everything started to appear bright, fuzzy and glowing in that same radiant electrified was MDMA makes things look. I started noticing vivid contrasts on everything, on the crowd, the lights, and the musicians on stage were glowing as if they were radioactive! My mindset was beautiful, everything was captivating and I felt like I could direct my emotions in any direction I wanted to. I was wide awake, super focused but pleasantly intoxicated at the same time. As I danced, my body temperature started increasing and I felt the heat on my skin, and it was extremely pleasurable. Nice warm rushes of euphoria were surging up and down my body, urging me to dance more. I kept hydrating but not overly. I considered eating the remainder of the cap I took a bite out of, and perhaps even a second kratom capsule, but I refrained deciding I would at least wait a full hour after my last ingestion to consider taking more. I'm glad I refrained, because effects continued to increase to the point where I was fully immersed in the experience, I felt at one with the music, the crowd, the venue, the musicians, I kept looking at everyone else and smiling ear to ear, getting huge rushes of empathy and euphoria, having the same awesome thought patterns I used to have while rolling face and observing a throbbing crowd. I even was at a point where I thought to myself "Ok, did someone drop molly in my drink or something? This is working out too well..." I don't think anyone did, I think I just nailed what I was looking for.

The show ended and we made our way home. I got home and smoked a fat bowl, hung out for a while, and went to bed. As I was sitting at my desk in my room, smoking my pipe, just as I do every time we come home from a show, and I felt the exact same way I usually do when arriving home after a night of rolling. After I smoked the weed, WOW did I start tripping balls. While laying in bed, I began having the most vivid sensation of flying and weightlessness. I felt like I was floating in the air, all sense of touch was nearly completely turned off. I was spooning my girlfriend, and I knew she was there but I could barely feel her. My body felt exactly as it would if I was just floating in the pool, it was absolutely incredible. I tripped extremely hard, but it was 100% positive energy and euphoric as all hell. Quite possibly the best mushroom experience I've ever had. If I was to compare this experience with all the other times I've taken MDMA or MDA or mephedrone, I would have to say there is only one past experience with MDA I've had that outshines this one. Any other time I've rolled, it was either as good or worse than this.

The next morning I have awoken bright eyed, bushy tailed, feeling rested, happy, content and satisfied with last night's events. I definitely feel like I got it right this time. Now to take everything all at once, might try tonight but then again I might want to give this all a break for a while just to err on the side foo caution. Yes, the point of this concoction is to be harmless, but just because it's non-toxic doesn't mean I should go abusing it or overdoing it. I'm thinking I might try this all again tonight, and then put it all down for a few weeks to let my body reset. I wonder if there's any risk of serotonin receptor down-regulation from frequent use of low doses of mushrooms? Can't be any worse than binge drinking...

The only thing I wish is that kratom didn't constrict my pupils so much. I feel like the visuals would be so much better if my eyes were allowed to dilate. You can actually tell there's fighting going on, because when I look in the mirror while on kratom and mushrooms, you can actually tell my pupils don't know whether to dilate or constrict so they take on this strange look of being like half-dilated. Plus, I think the whole idea of pupil saucers goes hand in hand with 'rolling', so I really wish my eyes would become dimes with this combo. Anyone have ideas of an additive that could promote pupil dilation without adding/taking away too much to the overall effects?

Thanks for reading!! %)

 

[yardbirdrc]

Mescaline isn't toxic? Wow, that's good news. Mescaline is accessible for me, but not quite as easy as shrooms. I might have to just try some to try some (I've wanted to anyway). So many people are saying it's the closest thing to MDMA as you can get. I'm intrigued!!! Also, I've heard there are huge differences between extracted (powder) mescaline, and actual cactus juice. Does it have amphetamine-like stimulation, or do you think I'll still want to add a stim? Could the effects be compared to other phens like 2C-E? 2C-E and 2C-I were absolutely nothing like MDMA even though for some reason I've seen people compare them.

Some of the things that drive me away from mescaline is the fact that for one it apparently takes forever to hit you, (I remember 2C-E taking ~2.5 hours) and also I heard that throwing up is nearly inevitable. Again, this is only what I've read/heard, I could be wrong!

I've not taken the extracted powder yet (although I have some), every trip I've had with it has been dried peruvian torch skins crushed and put in capsules. It is stimulatory on its own, but is even better if you sip a strong cup of coffee while you come up (or drop a 100-150mg bomb of caffeine powder, but coffee is better). It does take quite a while to come-up fully, and it lasts a very long time. The nausea was never really too much for me to handle, though one girl I took it with did vomit (out of about 6 or 7 people I've dosed it with). Cactus tea might be harder to handle than the chips though, the taste is unbelievably bad. Low doses are best for having the euphoria without entering supremely trippy territory, so you might get the best results if you drop a low dose then wait for it to come up fully and start adding drugs to get where you want to be after you have a mescaline foundation laid. I've never taken 2C-E; I hated 2C-I and only have one experience with it. I've done a bit of 2C-B though and the two are somewhat similar. Mescaline is much, much fuller though. The euphoria is significantly deeper than 2C-B's and the headspace is much more complex.

I should confess I've never taken MDMA, so this advice may be misguided. I've taken my fair share of psychedelics though and found the euphoria of mescaline unrivaled in that group. It's like when you wake up in the morning and take a good long stretch in the sunlight, and right at the climax of that stretch you just have that one second where every muscle feels good and all is right with the world.

Isn't ma huang another name for ephedra sinica? I thought that was somewhat cardiotoxic. Still probably not that bad compared to MDMA, and definitely a pittance compared to what some of the stuff in your average E pill can do to you. Keep up the quest! Sounds like you got some pretty ideal results in your most recent trial.

 

[yucatanboy2]

Great reports SS, glad to hear your experimentation has been successful.

 

[highhooked]

I honestly think that there are only 3 important ingredients. That is, the mushrooms, the kratom and of course weed.

Consuming just these 3 substances IMO would be best. The mu huang, caffeine, kava and even the alcohol would do little if you are already consuming mushrooms, kratom and smoking weed.

Ok maybe a few shots of liquor with it but thats as far as i would go. The mu huang, caffeine and kava seem like a waste to me. Low dose shrooms= more stimulation than you are going to get from caffeine or mu huang. If anything they would just add to the anxiety.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

I honestly think that there are only 3 important ingredients. That is, the mushrooms, the kratom and of course weed.

Consuming just these 3 substances IMO would be best. The mu huang, caffeine, kava and even the alcohol would do little if you are already consuming mushrooms, kratom and smoking weed.

Ok maybe a few shots of liquor with it but thats as far as i would go. The mu huang, caffeine and kava seem like a waste to me. Low dose shrooms= more stimulation than you are going to get from caffeine or mu huang. If anything they would just add to the anxiety.

I thought this too, however there is a difference between using this combo with and without ma huang, I've tested both. I find that yes, mushrooms give the real stimulating push, however, later on once the shrooms have hit their peak levels, I notice that I'm much more inclined to sit down and trip out, whereas with ma huang I notice I'm far more motivated to dance, move about, talk, etc.. Even though the actual stimulant effect from ma huang isnt a noticable 'high', it certainly alters the high of everything else in a pleasant way. It also provides euphoric warm rushes up and down my body, I enjoy that effect a lot! The ma huang itself doesn't give a strong stimulating push, even a 200mg caffeine pill gives a more forceful speedyness to it, however I find the subtle effects of the ma huang to compliment everything else. It's understood the most powerful substances are the shrooms kratom and weed, however think of it as meat, corn and potatoes. Sure, great by themselves, but absolutely kick ass with some spices sprinkled on top!

I haven't really focused on finding a good kava kava dose for this, as it as probably far too subtle to enjoy in an intense setting. It's also quite sedating, not what I'm looking for. I've pretty much cut it out of the equation.

I have read much about ephedra, ephedrine and ma huang. To my understanding, ephedrine hcl (the synthetic version found in weight loss pills) is rather toxic to both the brain and heart in comparison to the ephedra sinica plant, aka ma huang. All are rather safe in reasonable doses, however I have read that the ma huang plant has several alkaloids in it, all of which have important effects on one and other. I can try to dig up the reference, but I read once that certain alkaloids in ma huang are actually antagonists that have protective properties and actually 'limit' the effects of the other alkaloids, thus making it safer to use (for lack of a more scientific statement). I'm not saying it's impossible to OD or cause damage with ma huang, however it appears it is far safer to use the plant in it's full form as opposed to a single synthetic ephedrine alkaloid, especially if not taken on a regular basis. This holds true for LOTS of natural substances, also a huge reason why I lean towards natural sources. Compare the safety of things like pod tea vs morphine pills, cannabis vs JWH, etc..

Very interesting stuff about the mescaline. It's certainly starting to peak my interest. The more I read, the more I feel like it might be absolutely perfect. Do you find you get strong visuals even at low doses? Or is it just euphoria? How long does it typically take to hit you? Do you know any key differences between using mescaline powder, cactus skins and cactus juice? What didn't you like about 2C-I? I absolutely loved 2C-E, the visuals blew my face off. 2C-I was almost the same thing, just a slight bit less potent however still very strong.


Thank you for all the kind replies!!

 

[yardbirdrc]

Do you find you get strong visuals even at low doses? Or is it just euphoria?

Low doses have almost no visuals for me, just a "brightening" of everything. The euphoria can definitely be felt at those doses but by the time you get to the doses where you have full on "rushes" you'll also have some visuals.

How long does it typically take to hit you?

I feel the body effects after 45 minutes to an hour, takes about 2 hours to reach the full blown effects.

Do you know any key differences between using mescaline powder, cactus skins and cactus juice?

From what I understand, depending on how isolated the mescaline is from the other alkaloids in the cactus, the powder is supposed to be clearer, speedier and less "dreamy". There's still nausea too, but much less.

What didn't you like about 2C-I?

Probably wasn't ready to handle it at the time, it overwhelmed me so my mental state was kind of frantic. Mental state aside, physically it felt like poison. My chest felt like it was full of sand and I had trouble breathing, my heart was racing, my teeth hurt (which was real weird), just general malaise and excess energy. Things that could've contributed to this: I didn't procure the powder direct from the supplier but through a middleman, middleman weighed the "15mg" dose and not myself, and set and setting weren't optimal. I've lived and learned a lot since then (then being early 2009). Still, I haven't bothered to revisited it under better conditions. 2C-B fulfills everything I want from the halogen branch of that family so why bother?

Very cool news about ephedra, too bad I've had to stay away from all stimulants lately. Glad to hear you did your research on it.