Opioids The Ultimate Opiate Potentiation Thread v2.0

[Jabberwocky]

Is this the most current Potentiation Megathread? Hope so, looks current, anywho...

Just a caveat to those looking to potentiate whatever opioid with Cimetidine AND DXM, beware the former potentiating the latter. It's not a big deal if you're taking dosages of DXM that you wouldn't feel (45-90mg for a variety of people it would seem), however if you don't have a lot of experience with DXM I'd tread lightly. Especially if you've never felt the dissociative effects/1st-3rd plateaus.

I stumbled upon DXM while using it to detox from a dope habit a year plus ago. Maybe four months ago, in an attempt to detox from my bupe that I've been taking since that previous kick, only for a little to enjoy a small stash of full agonists from the surgeries that ended my short mod career in OD p ), anyways I was down to .25-.5mg (approx) IM (yay to proper hygiene and no abscesses!) of bupe (no naloxone) per day. I'd stabilized on that for a week or ten days. The first day off took maybe 200-300mg DXM. Got high, was able to ignore physical and most of the psychological acute w/d symptoms. Day two took maybe 175-190mg DXM. However, that afternoon I was jonesing and said fuck it... 400mg Cimetidine 30 minutes prior to taking 25mg hydromorph IM. As soon as I began to feel my nerves calm down from the opios, I was like, "Oh, shit... Why am I so fucked up right now?" Felt like I drank 40 and took 20mg valium, but of course not that nice, just the mental cloudiness such combo would bring.

Then I realized, back when I kicked my three year daily dope habit (just under a decade of regular but not necessarily dependent opioid use) was when I originally discovered Cimetidine. Of course it wasn't for potentiating opiois at that time, but the DXM (after five or so days of 2nd-3th plateau trips DXM tends to lose it's magic for many, especially considering I had been taking Piracetam for months). Doesn't work for very long, but I remember the huge grin that spread across my face the first time I used 400-600mg to potentiate a 2nd plateau trip.

Right, Cimetidine potentiates DXM, not to mention a lot of other substances as well. So moral of the story, unless you are intending to get fucked up from DXM and your Opios, be careful how much DXM/Cimetidine you take to potentiate. I personally find the effects of even a 1st plateau dose of DXM ruins any opioid (that is to say, I get fucked up and dissociated just enough from say, 100-120mg of DXM, to be much less able to notice let alone enjoy the subjective effects of a good opioid buzz).

When EVER you want to use Tagamet/Cimetidine to potentiate ANY opioid or other drug cocktail for the first time, for the sake of the HR fairies, make sure you first check out this Awesome CYP-450 Chart! that soundphaRm posted back in '05.

You never know, I mean unless you already do, how something like Cimetidine will affect other chemicals in your body. I mean, even unexpected interactions/contradictions aside, using something like Cimetidine to potentiate opioids/whatever isn't as simple as it will potentiate your DOC's buzz or not. How such interactions can effect you is, in other words, anything but self evident. As the following quote illustrates it's a bit more complex than that:

Approximately 60% of hydrocodone is metabolized via CYP2D6 to hydromorphone and CYP3A4 to norhydrocodone. Cimetidine will inhibit both and while hydrocodone itself has some activity, it is probably not something you want to do. Use this chart http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/191439-Awesome-CYP-450-Chart! and take something that inhibits CYP3A4 (like grapefruit juice) and something that induces CYP2D6 (only one I know off the top of my head is a shot of booze) to get the best results.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1884456/

You could also delve deeper into the research for the 40% that isn't P450 and see if you could inhibit that with additional competing substrates at whatever the phase II mechanism is.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^ great post.

When I saw the length, I thought it would be rambly but it was a good story and very well-written. It's nice to see you posting around here. I hope you're doing well!

I have a question about Loperamide. I have heard for a long time that it's good for wd's, but I am seeing more and more about using it to potentiate. As we all know, opiate/opioid users have problems with constipation ...
Are there dangers when using as a potentiater? I'm SO backed up all the time due to my long term use of fentanyl and oxycodone as is...I'm just wondering how much lope would worsen the issue?
Thanks.

Loperamide certainly produces a far greater a ratio of constipation:central opioid effects than most other opioids which is why it is still sold OTC. What are you doing/taking to offset the constipation right now? Obviously fluid intake combined with a high fiber diet is essential but alone is often insufficient and CAN even exacerbate the problem; fiber bulks up your fecal matter and when the opioids are sucking all the water out of it, you are just getting larger rock-solid pieces you need to push out. In severe cases, high fiber intake in opioid users can increase the likelihood of bowel impaction.

It is really important for anyone using opioids regularly - whether recreationally or therapeutically - to be using stool softeners and/or laxatives (preferably gentle laxatives). When I was prescribed daily opioid doses for chronic pain, I was using Senna-S which is a combination of the gentle laxative sennosides and the stool softener docusate sodium so it's a great medication that be taken daily and will help you be able to evacuate your bowels regularly but not uncomfortably force out brown water like many stronger stimulant laxatives do. It's also available OTC.

There is a novel new agent called methylnatrexone which is kind of like the loperamide of antagonists - it only blocks the opioids effects peripherally so when combined with agonists, prevents them from causing constipation without reducing the analgesia, euphoria, etc. I'm hoping more combination drugs will come out that utilize this or more physicians prescribe it concomitantly for pain patients.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've been under the assumption that the adderall will potentiate the pain meds but is this true? Thanks in advance!

Short answer: No. Long answer: Strictly speaking, still no, although the effects of the adderall will probably compliment the opioids increasing your overall buzz/high, although technically the amps aren't "potentiating" the opioids.

Lastly, I use d-phenylalanine (DPA). I've seen it mentioned once or twice, but there was not much fanfare for it at all. I sing it's praises!! D-phenylalanine has been shown to somehow inhibit the enzymes decarboxylase and enkaphalanase(sp?), which indiscriminately metabolises endogenous and exogenous opiates. When these enzymes are inhibited, your opiate will remain in your system for longer. In some cases, MUCH longer.
I have been taking d-phenylalanine for many months now. DPA becomes more effective the longer you take it, and can remain effective for several weeks after discontinued use. It cannot be used to "potentiate" one-time doses; it must be taken consistently for at least a couple weeks...which may be one reason that contributes to it's lack of attention. However, when taken consistently, my DOC lasts 50-100% longer. Morphine is a relatively short acting drug, and for me, it would last about 6-8 hours. After taking DPA on a regular basis, the same dose now lasts 12 hours or more, and my peak lasts for 1-2 hours longer than before!! I absolutely love my DPA! :-D
I should mention that it also helps with my lower (lumber/sacral) pain, especially around my pelvis, even without opiates. DPA helps the body accumulate natural endorphins, so it is effective even without extra opiates, tho that's no fun.

I've only been on it for like a week, but I've found dlpa (1000mg, 50:50 d/l, on an empty stomach, with b complex, and two glasses of water) to work well for my depression. I can't imagine it's not anything but related largely to my opioid ways, as I've been forced to cut way back the last two months and am having to find alternatives (hell, like there really are any when it comes to how well they've worked for me). That said, exercise, this dlpa combo, seems to have made a big diff. I've heard lots of good and bad things from people about DLPA, from all sorts of people, with all sorts (or lack there) of habits, but given low cost in the US I'd highly recommend it if you're into supplements/working out. I do, however, refuse to take it with any kind of stim stronger than a cup or two of coffee (i.e. taking it an hour before 30mg of dextroamp was not one of my brightest).

When I saw the length, I thought it would be rambly but it was a good story and very well-written. It's nice to see you posting around here. I hope you're doing well!

...

There is a novel new agent called methylnatrexone which is kind of like the loperamide of antagonists - it only blocks the opioids effects peripherally so when combined with agonists, prevents them from causing constipation without reducing the analgesia, euphoria, etc. I'm hoping more combination drugs will come out that utilize this or more physicians prescribe it concomitantly for pain patients.

Thanks! Lots of ups and downs but even though I've been depressed a lot the last couple months I really have little to complain about other than being poor-as-shit (I mean, really, who doesn't enjoy working as an actuary ). Lol I know, I haven't touched my stash of dextroamp today, so while I'm not too succinct, as always, at least I'm on topic (kinda ).

This methylantrexone sounds very, very interesting. On the one hand, I'm so glad my days of heavy lope use are gone (even if there were only four or five of them spread out over months). On the other hand, I have to keep in mind, despite some really negative side effects, moderate to high dosages of lope can really make a difference in w/d. I just hated how dehydrated it made me, that and the slight stimulation. But primarily the dehydration (no matter what I drank, what lotion I used, that sucked).

Serious constipation was never an issue for me with lope, even taking upward of 180mg. BUT I had a serious habit at the time, so it I hadn't been on it I know I would have been pissing out my ass (for like a month if not longer, had I not resumed my habit). So if you're that bad, it's not necessarily a huge danger. Still though, something to move things along throughout the bowels is a really sound idea. For some reason I have never had much luck with common laxatives (of the stimulant variety primarily), but Polyethylene Glycol 3350 has worked well in conjunction with really constipating opioids. Actually, the worst one of those for me is bupe, especially when I end up taking 12-16mg/day (rare) following a serious two-three week dope binge, especially when I take that bupe for consecutive days. Last time, I cringe at the memory, is one of two times I literally had to stick my fingers into my ass to pull out the shit (literally). I was actually amazed at how hard that shit was in there, pun intended. Rock hard. Like granite.

I have found one particular post on opioiphile rather relevant to this discussion, at least about how to properly use the lope for w/d: http://forum.opiophile.org/showthre...Survival-Guide&p=496524&viewfull=1#post496524

Honestly though, are people talking about using lope for potentiating? I could see that, at mid-high dosages, if I had been clean for a week or two. But other than that one situation (in which seeds would work a lot better anyways), naw.

This methylnatrexone does sound very cool though - the possibility that I won't have to deal with constipation for the rest of my life and actually get a chance to address my ibs sooner than later would be much appreciated. Plus I can think of a chipper or two who would love not being unable to shit for a week after using a little dope for two days. Research time...

Note: Oops, I said I don't do well with stim laxatives then I tell you all how Polyethylene Glycol 3350 works well for me... hehe, it's early. That's the one exception I've found to that rule (or I hadn't been taking enough on earlier attempts).

Cane, what's the proper guidelines for taking stim laxatives? Frequency, dosages, etc. Drinking enough water also would seem to be key, something I don't think I really did on my first attempts. I'm sure it varies from person to person, from habit to habit, but generally speaking, what have you found to work well? Funny I've never really pursued learning more about laxatives given my hobbies

 

[Bawmit]

Oxy Potentiation Question.

I've read through both versions of the mega potentiators threads. I'm not asking for help to get higher, more like an opinion or suggestion.

My tolerance is moderate. I haven't used any drugs in the last 5-6 days.

I have one oxy 40mg XR, one .5 mg Xanax, a bottle of 100% ruby red grapefruit juice, two honey buns with high fat content (41g) , aleve, tums, benadryl and thinking of grabbing some tagament.

So my question is, if you had this combo at hand, which would you use, in what chronological order and what mg of each?

 

[RedRum OG]

Dude Jesus Christ..... Oxy has 80-90% absorption rates in your stomach already, not any reason to be stuffing your face with "honey buns". The more food in your tummy, the less effective oxy (or any drug) will be. Sure fat helps a little, but as in eating like a single piece of bacon or something.

You have a fat list of stupid potentiators. You only need one. White grapefruit juice. Ruby will work, but much less concentrated. White grapefruit juice. That is it. Tagamet comes second in terms of usefulness, but if you have the WGFJ you don't need it

Just drink 1/3 of the WGFJ about 15 minutes before taking oxy. They will be much more powerful and last longer. You can continue sipping the juice as long as you want, or don't. Be careful, this will make the oxy more powerful, take less than you normally would

 

[Dagda Mochta]

The only thing you have thats going to significantly potentiate the oxy is the Xanax. As mentioned above you need white grapefruit. IMO ruby red is worthless. Aslo, dont bother wiith Tagamet. Besides inhibiting CYP3A4, cimetidine also inhibits CYP2D6, which is responsible for converting about 15% (i think) of your oxycodone dose to oxymorphone.

 

[twotoomany]

Wgfj works well. Tagamet worked well for me. Dxm (in the recommended dose) is a nice synergizer, and certainly lowered my tolerance, however briefly. Good luck.

 

[Dagda Mochta]

Meh, I always found the potentiation from eynzyme inhibitors negligible but some people swear by it. Only things that work for me are alcohol, benzos, antihistamines and of course more opioids.

 

[twotoomany]

Meh, I always found the potentiation from eynzyme inhibitors negligible but some people swear by it. Only things that work for me are alcohol, benzos, antihistamines and of course more opioids.

I don't think the enzyme potentiators got me higher, but I definitely felt the effects for longer than usual. The bonus of this is not having to redose as soon. More opes is obviously the most effective, but not necessarily the safest. I keep a log, so I have some data in terms of what I've taken when.

 

[Dagda Mochta]

More opes is obviously the most effective, but not necessarily the safest.

I disagree. If you're looking for increased effects I think its safer to take a larger dose than to start mixing drugs and fucking around with your enzymes.

 

[twotoomany]

For the ope experienced, with a decent supply line, I agree whole heartedly. I guess I just don't know where this guy is coming from. His "moderate tolerance" may be nil, or he may be able to handle a huge dose. Either way, it sounds like he has just the one 40.

Incidentally, this is why I like this site. We can disagree, but still have reasonable discourse on the topic!

 

[macd610]

Dude Jesus Christ..... Oxy has 80-90% absorption rates in your stomach already, not any reason to be stuffing your face with "honey buns". The more food in your tummy, the less effective oxy (or any drug) will be. Sure fat helps a little, but as in eating like a single piece of bacon or something.

You have a fat list of stupid potentiators. You only need one. White grapefruit juice. Ruby will work, but much less concentrated. White grapefruit juice. That is it. Tagamet comes second in terms of usefulness, but if you have the WGFJ you don't need it

Just drink 1/3 of the WGFJ about 15 minutes before taking oxy. They will be much more powerful and last longer. You can continue sipping the juice as long as you want, or don't. Be careful, this will make the oxy more powerful, take less than you normally would

Holy shit, I am absolutely rolling in laughter. Eyes are watering. Don't know Why, but this post just struck me as super funny (in a good way .
I love the part about the honey buns and the fat list of stupid potentiator comments.
OT, though.. I am on approximately 250mg/day and I have never found anything to really help to any noticeable degree.
I am confused about 1 thing... on all the literature that comes with prescriptions such as this, it tells you that eating will help reduce side effects. Then on the other hand, I hear people speaking of taking in lots of fat to potentiate?

 

[Dagda Mochta]

I am confused about 1 thing... on all the literature that comes with prescriptions such as this, it tells you that eating will help reduce side effects. Then on the other hand, I hear people speaking of taking in lots of fat to potentiate?

A high fat meal supposedly increases peak plasma concentrations and the rate of absorption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8901078

As for decreasing side effeects, its generally recommended to take anything that may cause nausea with a small amount of food.

 

[macd610]

A high fat meal supposedly increases peak plasma concentrations and the rate of absorption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8901078

As for decreasing side effeects, its generally recommended to take anything that may cause nausea with a small amount of food.

Thanks for the link and the info, Dagda Mochta!
Cat

 

[Dagda Mochta]

You're welcome.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

This has been talked about a lot. Going to merge it with Opiate Potentiation Mega.

---->Merge

 

[RoboRobot]

so does naltrexone potentiate it by clearing out the opiate receptors? I thought it had a stronger binding-affinty compared to most (full-agonist) opiates?

 

[EEhouseEE]

Do Vitamins/Minerals potentiate Opiates or Weaken them...?

OK so yes i know there are hundreds of vitamins and minerals out there but now I will be a little more specific.
I am sure everyone knows those "Vitamin Water" bottles they sell at stores these days and my question is...say if you drank one of them before doing an opiate, lets use oxycodone lol.
Would drinking it have any effect on your opiate high, negative or positive ?, any slight potentiation...?

So to be even a little more specific this is what the bottles contain :
Vit A
Vit B3, B6, B12.
Pantothenic acid
Vitamin C
Lutein ( w.e the hell that is lol..)

So what do you guys think would this help in any way to increase the effects, do nothing, or just weaken them.?
Would really appreciate if you guys can give me some answers, i really couldnt find much else on this anywhere...

Thanks.

 

[tricomb]

I'll merge this in with the opioid potentiation thread. Did you do a search? You didn't find anything, but did you look? This has absolutely been covered before.

I'd recommend you use pubmed to find articles that deal with specific vitamins.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

OK so yes i know there are hundreds of vitamins and minerals out there but now I will be a little more specific.
I am sure everyone knows those "Vitamin Water" bottles they sell at stores these days and my question is...say if you drank one of them before doing an opiate, lets use oxycodone lol.
Would drinking it have any effect on your opiate high, negative or positive ?, any slight potentiation...?

So to be even a little more specific this is what the bottles contain :
Vit A
Vit B3, B6, B12.
Pantothenic acid
Vitamin C
Lutein ( w.e the hell that is lol..)

So what do you guys think would this help in any way to increase the effects, do nothing, or just weaken them.?
Would really appreciate if you guys can give me some answers, i really couldnt find much else on this anywhere...

Thanks.

For Vitamin Water it would do nothing or even slow the absorption, because opioids like to have a more alkaline stomach and Vit C etc is acidic. In my experience Vitamin Water does not seem to have any perceptible effect on opioids though.