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The Big & Dandy ++++ Thread

Si monumentum requiris circumspice....Use your eyes. :)

Fuck the bible- its the source of so much hypocrisy; makes me sick. Actually, no it doesn't, it just makes me bored that psychedelics always have to have some connection to whoreganised religion.

++++ is beyond anything that can be put in words.
 
Agreed, but language is always no more than approximation. The best we can do is use mathematics. During a week of Zen meditation with people I tried to come up with a mathematical model for relating illumination to approaching infinity, it seemed I came close but never succeeded.
There is a documentary about that called dangerous knowledge about physicists and mathematicians trying to come up with brilliant theorems and models related to mysticism or universal workings and God, it drove many of the insane in the end.

I think we already proved that complex workings of the universe have already been captured with physics and mathematics, it's just a question of how ultimate can it get? There is something unbelievably intriguing there and also grand understanding but objective truth is probably too much of an illusion to grasp. Beyond certain limits some types of event horizons are crossed and everything you were using to connect your ideas breaks down until your view bends all the way around and suddenly you are not looking at an externalized worldconcept anymore but you are looking at yourself.
 
alt 14 said:
I tend to believe that story describes a UFO encounter. They follow around a "pillar of cloud(or smoke)" by day that blocks them from the sunlight and turns into a "pillar of fire" by night and gives them light when it's dark. Food falls out of this thing in the sky so they don't starve to death. Eventually Moses ENTERS the pillar of cloud/fire, talks, and when he comes out, he has a weird glow to him. Later in the bible, hundreds of years in the future, Moses reappears with Elijah (who ALSO took a "chariot of fire" into the sky) and they chit-chat with Jesus. I'm thinking some sort of cloning project was going on. The only two people in the bible who were taken into the clouds show up years later with Jesus?

Most of you will think I'm a crazy, but I think I'm on the right track here.
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you cant believe what happened so you make up your own "more plausible" story? i think an encounter with god is infinitely more plausible than an encounter with aliens

that being said, i think a ++++ experience could be an encounter with God, exactly what the biblical prophets saw (only they didn't have psychedelics of course), so it allows us to see the divine truth, i guess you could consider it a sort of gateway that God created to allow humans to experience absolute bliss.
 
I'm pretty sure saliva formatted my brain... completely out of body, as in, I had no awareness of my body or anything around me. It was a very scary trip, but I am grateful to have had it... I'm not sure if this counts as a ++++ trip, but to me, I feel it was something that changed me and my outlook (and perhaps in-look if that's a word!).
 
Hmm I get what you're saying about the delusions for example the entities with DMT are very strange and otherworldly, mythical... and I agree that externalizing these experiences and trying to imagine these creatures as existing as independant in other spatial dimensions is just wrong and are hopeless attempts to explain these experiences in scientific terms we (hardly) understand.
I think these experiences are always mental projections and they are a product of our mind's dimension containing our infinite imagination. Mental processes and locked away wisdom is suddenly accessed because we enter our dream state while conscious but we thrust though it with high velocity caused by the high DMT levels. These personified aspects of our living identity sometimes have messages for us, to me it seems like they come right from the heart or something. But actually that is the depth of MY heart, only normally it is clouded by confusion and fear. Now it is overthrown by sheer power.

This is just my belief, mind you, not my knowledge...
But what I'm trying to say here is that while the exact nature of these experiences is very hard to prove or explain, that doesn't just mean we can't benefit from it and that there is nothing true to be learned from it! We can teach ourselves so many things if we are made free! Psychedelics are not directly teachers, that is a slight misconception if you ask me. They are indirect teachers because what they actually do is enable us, among other things enable us to see and therefore teach ourselves.
There are risks when go you believe things too easily, like that there are real aliens that try to communicate with you - be careful and stay sceptical PLEASE. But calling it poison and be done with it is another form of ignorance, disrespectful of these powerful tools that have helped man for ages.
 
dread said:
Who says they didn't have psychedelics?
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If they actually did, is it fair to assume that in centuries of censoring and editing it was gradually or quickly filtered out? I mean ingesting psychotropic substances is just part of man's history but controversy around it is, too. And on top of that when mysticism shifted to hearsay, revelation and religious culture and control over people... spontaneous religious states from psychedelics would be considered blasphemy because people could easily start doubting the validity of the experiences. They (convinced believers and patriarchs) don't want to hear about such reasons for getting these experiences other than the assumed dogma that god just exists and always has.
 
Rodya said:
i think an encounter with god is infinitely more plausible than an encounter with aliens
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rofl.gif
People should start actually reading the bible before they readily practice and preach it...
 
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I just took LSD and afte the hell of realising I was not insane I have only to say that EVERYTHING IS NOTHING AND NOTHING IS EVERYTHING - it is a circle that will never end... that is why we have life
 
f1ct said:
... and now, the weather
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=D

Shulgin, bill hicks,

That makes me feel like ++++ experiences already started to became part of our modern culture and will become more and more widely present.
 
Don't kick me for bringing this up again but isn't december 2012 supposed to be the time that ++++ prevalence skyrockets?

Though I really don't know what to believe............
in effect I try not to, but let a guy wonder right? :D
 
2012? Noooooooooo!!!!!!! Somebody just had to bring it up didn't they :|

;)
 
Depends which arbitrary calendar system you happen to use probably ;)
 
Did the world end? Would be handy to know for those of us that are still waiting :D
 
Yeah, in 2000 did you miss the apocalypse? Pay attention!
We were already living in a dream, called maya (illusion) then earth exploded because it was confused about the digits changing ('99 -> '00) and our souls all continued in another shared
dream-within-a-dream because we had some unfinished stuff to do.
And it was the maya people that dreamed up the 2012 thingy...
coincidence? nnnyes!
silly? maybyes!?

sorry shambles, me rambles
 
No problem, Solipsys Shamblz has become interchangable with Ramblz in some quarters =D

Apologies, back to serious discussion of spiritual trip stuff :)

I'm actually not sure I could point to a single definite +4 experience which I guess means I've not really had one as such. I do believe I have had similar experiences with both psychedelic and occaisonally non-psychedelic drugs - more specifically withdrawl from drugs :\ - usually through extended sessions and binges though.
 
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